Jigging and Drilling Requirements

I am looking very seriously at purchasing an RV4 kit and am concerned about both the jigging requirements and maintaining some semblance of symmetry when drilling the holes. The 8 is attractive because it seems to cut much of this out but the consensus seems to be that the 4 is a better flying machine overall.
So the questions are:

(1) Just how difficult is it to construct the various jigs required to construct this airplane; and
(2) How difficult is it to measure and drill so many straight runs of holes.

I know these seem like pretty mundane questions but then again, with the intro of the pre-punched 8 fuselage ...

Thanks for your time.

Brad

RV-4 jigs and drilling

Here it is plain and simple .....and I can speak from experience...you must for one,like the design and lines better than the -8, or like the challenges of metal work and layout. I do this for a living, so its no big deal from the technical or tooling end, and I started mine before the -8 was unveiled.However, to this day, I like the lines of the -4 the best(cowl cheeks are cool). If you dont have experience, and your desire is based on tandem seat tailwheel RV, go with the -8...you and your passenger will be a whole lot happier. If you choose the -4, realize the jigs/fixtures purpose and build it like your going to use it, and throw it away..doesnt need to be high $$ wood,chrome molly ,ect...just straight and true.There are MANY out there people give away, and you can get through builders sites..mine was used for three fuselages...now its part of a shelving unit in the basement. As far as layout of rivet lines and drilling....LOTS of it. Once you do a few...somewhat mundane, but it will be easier. It does require a bit more forethought before drilling some stuff, so you dont put holes where they shouldnt be,and as far as wings, I built spars and all...If the kit your looking at has the Phlogistron spars, you dont have to worry about that....Hope I answered some of your questions...feel free to ask any you moght have.

Bill E. RV-4. 90%done90% to go.

Great response

Bill,

Thanks for the response. I have quite a bit of fabrication experience but its almost all steel and I almost always weld or drill and bolt. Just a different ball game and so I wanted to hear from those who have been there regarding experiences in this realm.
I agree with you though. I believe the 4 is a much nicer looking plane. Maybe not quite as versatile with its more limited CG range but it certainly fits my bill. Im a pretty small guy (5'10" and 180#) and if history is any indicator of the future, my usual passengers will be quite a bit smaller than me : ).
The 8 is attractive but everything I have read and heard indicates the 4 is a better handling machine as well as a better aerobatic flyer.
So if I understand correctly, I should be able to find a fuselage jig which I can either send back to its owner or pass forward?
Thanks again.

Brad

FWIW, here are some reasons why I would suggest giving the 8 more serious consideration:

Money: The 8 kit costs $4,000 more and when you are done an 8 will bring twice as much money if you ever decide to sell it and we are talking in the range of $40K more. So with the 4 you'll do more work & have a less valuable plane.

Time & work: With the 8 you'll be in the air a lot sooner and now with the prepunched kit, it will be easier to build more accurately.

The planes: The 8 gives you a lot more room including for baggage. Handling? The 8 handles very well. The 4 may be a little better, but you aren't giving up much. I have ridden in the back of a -4 & I wouldn't put anyone back there larger than a small woman if it was going to more than a brief flight.

Just my very humble opinion.

-8

Bill,
I flew a friend's 8 from the back seat and man-oh-man was it wonderful! I agree that the 4 is a very good looking bird but the 8 flies incredibly well and I can't imagine how or why the 4 would be THAT much better.

We did rolls and split esses and a few other whoopdedoops and that airplane was a pure thrill. The added room was especially welcome and I'm average at 5 11 and 185. Can't you find a ride in both since in either case you're looking at lotsa dollars spent?

Four plus Eight equals...One....Rocket!

OK, Build an RV4? Sure, but you can buy one flying for about what it costs to build now. Seeing I built my 4 back when dinosaurs roamed the taxiways and finished it for 25K, I like alot of bang for the buck. In 99' I bought RV-8 QB kit #2 from a frustrated owner thinking I wanted an 8...I was wrong. I sold the kit after logging 25 hours testing a friends RV8.
My RV4 ticked over 1422 hours yesterday evening after 10 years(yes it was upside down when it ticked). Do I still like it? You betcha! Does it fly better than the RV8? In my humble opinion, yes. (better than the F-16?...no!) Do they either fly better than the Harmon Rocket...hmmmm, that depends. The RV4 hands down is the lightest and most nimble of the three mentioned. But if your'e an RV8 fan, why build an 8 when the F-1 Rocket is a better more complete kit and easier than the -8 QB, been there done that. Also, the Harmon and F-1 Rocket are worth alot more when completed. The cool thing about the Rocket is power and speed (200 knot cruise/3000 fpm climb) are there, but you can always throttle back...Van designed the RV8 after John Harmon's Rocket first flew as it proved the concept of a better RV4. When I asked Van at SNF several years ago whether they would still continue to build RV4 kits he chuckled and said "what would the Harmon Rocket guys do if we stopped building RV4 kits"?
If you already have an RV4 kit, consider John Harmon's add-on kit and build a Rocket. Same difficulty and drilling and is much better, stronger and faster than the 8 and same size cockpit. IO-540's cost about the same used as an IO-360 now and are smoother. I love my RV4 however, several Rocket guys have told me they sold their RV4 after awhile as they never flew it anymore...I'm seeing their point....

The best of both airplanes...

RR

Thanks

Thanks for the input guys. As always, this list is full of great information and people. The rocket has always intrigued me. In fact, regardless of whether I build and 8 or a 4, it will receive a speed slope windshield and sliding canopy (although the forward baggage is a bit more of a problem with the windshield for the 8 ...). The pre-owned kits for the 4 I am thinking about are the wing and emp kits. The emp is untouched for some reason but the wing is said to be about 70% finished. Have yet to inspect the build quality. The wings have the P-spars and RV6 tanks so that is a plus. The down side is that I dont think they can be easily converted for use in a rocket because they are already 70% complete. Not sure how much time this would save. The price is certainly right but then again, this will be a pay as I go project anyway. The question that remains for me with the rockets is the fact that the various flight regimes do not appear to have been as thoroughly tested to date as the RV4 and even 8. I would be interested in any info you guys (and gals) had to share on that subject however.
Of particular concern for me is the spin characteristics of each.
I posted a while back regarding the 8 and got a variety of good answers but no real hard and fast data. The word I hear on the 4 is that spins are somewhat benign. For the rocket, I have only read a bit about spins in the team rocket evo but none for the other iterations.
While I know Van doesnt reccomend recreational spins in these aircraft, I have been known to fall out of a maneuver once in a while and end up in one. Just comforting to know that, in a worst case, I can get into a fully developed spin and not be in a boat anchor on the way down. Thanks again for all the input and advice. It is truly appreciated.

The Rocket Rocks!

I have had a chance to directly compare my RV4 and my new Rocket as I fly them both , alot! The Rocket of course has alot more power, over the top is much easier. It is heavier but has a faster roll rate than the 4 or 8 with it's shorter wing. The Harmon Rocket spins as benign as my 4 with a faster break and entry with the heavier nose. It recovers in 1- 1 1/2 turns easily with standard recovery inputs. The EVO is a different critter and I am not familiar with it's flying characteristics...
Overall, since I am a die-hard RV4 guy, the Harmon Rocket is a "better" RV4...the eight...ain't.

Smokey