Van's Air Force
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Which EFIS and why?
- Thread starter J5Cub
- Start date
lucaberta
Active Member
If I were you, I'd also take a look at the AFS products. After a lot of pondering and comparing, including a number of visits to the different booths at OSH, I finally have decided that AF-3400 is what I want in my panel.
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/Products/AF-3400/AF-3400.html
Ciao, Luca
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/Products/AF-3400/AF-3400.html
Ciao, Luca
First Things First.....
Hello Greg!
This is kinda like asking folks "What airplane should I build...."
You will got a lot of advice, but none of it might pertain to your unique requirements!
I always suggest that when you're going to make a major decision on avionics, aircraft, or engine type, the first thing to do is to put away all of the adds, catalogs, and brochures. Forget who makes what. Sit down with a blank sheet of paper and start writing your own "requirements". What functions do you want? What kind of flying will you be doing? What are your goals for your project? And yes....how much are you willing (or able) to spend?
Start with a general list. IFR or VFR? What kind of Nav? What kind of redundancy? Then start getting more specific - moving map" Steam gages or electronic? Integrated systems or separate functions? Then get even more specific - what exact functions do you want - stored GPS approaches? HSI display? multiple VOR capability? Integrated database/map? Before you are ready to look at brand names, you might have a multiple-page list of features that you want.
Once you have that....then go back and read many of the threads in this particular forum (Glass Cockpits). It really doesn't take long to scan through them- compared to the number of hours that you will spend building a plane, its a drop in the bucket. What you will find are lots of good opinions mixed in with hard data. realize that most posters (myself included), know a lot about a single system in the experimental arena - the one we bought. Only a few folks are lucky enough to have experience with multiple brands and units. Many of us have flown certified and higher-end stuff with really expensive cockpits, and they are good for comparison or example - but they aren't what you are going to be buying!
The truth is that if you are just beginning to look, then you probably don't need to be locking in this early - in six months, everything will have evolved, and you'll have to start shopping all over again. But if you have a good set of requirements - those probably won't change. you can always do a quick compare to what is available when you are really ready to buy.
There are big differences between electronic replacements for gyros and fully integrate Electronic Flight Instrumentation "Systems". There is a spectrum from one to the other, and by defining your own requirements, you can figure out where on that spectrum you want your airplane to fall.
Have fun - the time to really enjoy the process is before you have sunk any money into it!
Paul
Hello Greg!
This is kinda like asking folks "What airplane should I build...."
You will got a lot of advice, but none of it might pertain to your unique requirements!I always suggest that when you're going to make a major decision on avionics, aircraft, or engine type, the first thing to do is to put away all of the adds, catalogs, and brochures. Forget who makes what. Sit down with a blank sheet of paper and start writing your own "requirements". What functions do you want? What kind of flying will you be doing? What are your goals for your project? And yes....how much are you willing (or able) to spend?
Start with a general list. IFR or VFR? What kind of Nav? What kind of redundancy? Then start getting more specific - moving map" Steam gages or electronic? Integrated systems or separate functions? Then get even more specific - what exact functions do you want - stored GPS approaches? HSI display? multiple VOR capability? Integrated database/map? Before you are ready to look at brand names, you might have a multiple-page list of features that you want.
Once you have that....then go back and read many of the threads in this particular forum (Glass Cockpits). It really doesn't take long to scan through them- compared to the number of hours that you will spend building a plane, its a drop in the bucket. What you will find are lots of good opinions mixed in with hard data. realize that most posters (myself included), know a lot about a single system in the experimental arena - the one we bought. Only a few folks are lucky enough to have experience with multiple brands and units. Many of us have flown certified and higher-end stuff with really expensive cockpits, and they are good for comparison or example - but they aren't what you are going to be buying!
The truth is that if you are just beginning to look, then you probably don't need to be locking in this early - in six months, everything will have evolved, and you'll have to start shopping all over again. But if you have a good set of requirements - those probably won't change. you can always do a quick compare to what is available when you are really ready to buy.
There are big differences between electronic replacements for gyros and fully integrate Electronic Flight Instrumentation "Systems". There is a spectrum from one to the other, and by defining your own requirements, you can figure out where on that spectrum you want your airplane to fall.
Have fun - the time to really enjoy the process is before you have sunk any money into it!
Paul
The biggest decision you can make about which EFIS to buy is going to be based on WHEN you think you will have your airplane flying. At least 6 months (maybe a year depending on whose EFIS you buy) you will have to place your order in order to insure you have the EFIS in hand to install before anticipated first flight.
I went with a three screen GRT system (Duel Horizon I plus Sport) for a duel AHRS system and a self contained complete EFIS backup. I ordered the system through SteinAir over a year before first flight and was pressed to get the system installed timely (not because of SteinAir but because GRT had trouble making delivery of their Sport version). I have NO DOUBT that if it hadn't been for Stein I would not have gotten delivery of my GRT Sport system in time for first flight (GRT at Stein's instance created a modified Sport out of their single screen Horizan I system with remote mount AHRS which I like even better than the Sport system with built in AHRS). In addition Stein gave me a better price on the system than I could have gotten directly from GRT. What a deal, cheaper price and someone with clout to push GRT in getting delivery.
The really nice thing about GRT (and Stein) is that you DO NOT have to post a deposit or pay for the system until it ships!!!! Some companies want your money when you place your order and promise you a delivery date that turns out to be a long time past what they claim (I have heard of some deliveries over a year after date promised).
I went with a three screen GRT system (Duel Horizon I plus Sport) for a duel AHRS system and a self contained complete EFIS backup. I ordered the system through SteinAir over a year before first flight and was pressed to get the system installed timely (not because of SteinAir but because GRT had trouble making delivery of their Sport version). I have NO DOUBT that if it hadn't been for Stein I would not have gotten delivery of my GRT Sport system in time for first flight (GRT at Stein's instance created a modified Sport out of their single screen Horizan I system with remote mount AHRS which I like even better than the Sport system with built in AHRS). In addition Stein gave me a better price on the system than I could have gotten directly from GRT. What a deal, cheaper price and someone with clout to push GRT in getting delivery.
The really nice thing about GRT (and Stein) is that you DO NOT have to post a deposit or pay for the system until it ships!!!! Some companies want your money when you place your order and promise you a delivery date that turns out to be a long time past what they claim (I have heard of some deliveries over a year after date promised).
the_other_dougreeves
Well Known Member
The answer is, of course, "It Depends"...
You knew that was coming, right?
Seriously, I expect many different answers to this question. However, this is America, and we have choices, which is good.
I'll give two answers:
For VFR with the future option of occasional "light IFR", e.g., pop through a layer of overcast, I'd go with a Dynon D100 + D120. Reasons are screen brightness, simplicity, price, and operating history:
* Screen should be brighter than other experimental EFIS. If you can't scan the screen quickly, it doesn't matter what it does.
* Simplicity - Dynon screen is uncluttered - good for a low-time pilot (me)
* Price - Less than $5k for a two screen system with engine monitoring
* Operating history - Dynon certainly hasn't been perfect, but they have been improving the same design for several years and have solved many of the bugs. I don't say "all" because one rarely fixes all the bugs in any hardware or software.
My second choice in this category would be the new ACS EFIS. Great screen size and simple display, combination EFIS + engine screens, good company, great price. GRT Sport is also a possibility.
For a robust IFR platform, I'd pick the Chelton / Direct2 system with two screens, WAAS IFR GPS module and a GRT engine monitor (which interfaces with the Cheltons). If I had the $$, I'd go for the certified / TSOed Crossbow AHRS (500GA), which has proven very reliable. Reasons:
* Good screen symbology and layout
* Excellent built-in FMS with IFR GPS approaches with HITS
* Good integration with synthetic vision, traffic (displayed in 3D), HITS
* Reliability (provided you don't have the Crossbow NAV425 AHRS)
Second choice would be a 3 screen GRT with the dual ADHRS, XM WX and WAAS GPS options, which would be about half the price of the Chelton ($15k vs over 30). Translated, this means: I'd most likely go with the GRT for budget reasons.
YMMV
You knew that was coming, right?
Seriously, I expect many different answers to this question. However, this is America, and we have choices, which is good.
I'll give two answers:
For VFR with the future option of occasional "light IFR", e.g., pop through a layer of overcast, I'd go with a Dynon D100 + D120. Reasons are screen brightness, simplicity, price, and operating history:
* Screen should be brighter than other experimental EFIS. If you can't scan the screen quickly, it doesn't matter what it does.
* Simplicity - Dynon screen is uncluttered - good for a low-time pilot (me)
* Price - Less than $5k for a two screen system with engine monitoring
* Operating history - Dynon certainly hasn't been perfect, but they have been improving the same design for several years and have solved many of the bugs. I don't say "all" because one rarely fixes all the bugs in any hardware or software.
My second choice in this category would be the new ACS EFIS. Great screen size and simple display, combination EFIS + engine screens, good company, great price. GRT Sport is also a possibility.
For a robust IFR platform, I'd pick the Chelton / Direct2 system with two screens, WAAS IFR GPS module and a GRT engine monitor (which interfaces with the Cheltons). If I had the $$, I'd go for the certified / TSOed Crossbow AHRS (500GA), which has proven very reliable. Reasons:
* Good screen symbology and layout
* Excellent built-in FMS with IFR GPS approaches with HITS
* Good integration with synthetic vision, traffic (displayed in 3D), HITS
* Reliability (provided you don't have the Crossbow NAV425 AHRS)
Second choice would be a 3 screen GRT with the dual ADHRS, XM WX and WAAS GPS options, which would be about half the price of the Chelton ($15k vs over 30). Translated, this means: I'd most likely go with the GRT for budget reasons.
YMMV
N395V
Well Known Member
I cannot echo these comments strongly enough.
To them I would add read everything you can get your hands on on this bulletin board and others about every model and manufacturer you are considering.
Also if you have never flown behind an EFIS and have significant time behind steam guages go fly one with somebody. You may not like it.
The decision you have to make is like going to a restaurant with 37,000 delicious sounding items on the menuu but you can only eat one of them and have no idea if you will like it and no idea of how long it will take to cook.
