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First "Real" form flight

G

gerrychuck

Well Known Member
Today I had the pleasure of flying my first real formation trip; what a challenging, intense, and rewarding experience! I say my first "real" formation flight, because I have flown as lead with a very experienced pilot on my wing on a couple of occasions before, but on those occasions it was always "his miss" and my responsibilities began and ended with not doing anything stupid or hitting the ground. Today was my first time on the wing, and with one current Snowbird pilot in the cockpit providing an endless supply of expert guidance and another flying lead, I was in very good hands to say the least. I am worm sweat as a pilot next to these guys, and it is such a privilege for a rank amateur like me to get to fly with them and benefit from their knowledge, experience, and skill. I feel very lucky indeed.

As a side note, what great formation aircraft the RV's are; now I just need a constant speed prop:) Those Whirlwinds sure look nice....

Thanks so much to Laser and Scrape for their patience and the depth of their abilities as teachers and mentors. Again; what a privilege!
 
Congratulations Gerry - you picked some great instructors! I had the pleasure of meetign the team last fall when they were in Houston, and I don't think I've ever met a more "aviation oriented" professional military jet team - these guys are real pilots on and off the job. Several of them are RV-ers.

Tell 'em Ironflight says hi!
 
Thank you Paul, and I will certainly do that, although Brett will probably read it here first anyway! As for a couple of them being RV'ers; don't I know it! Laser is my hangar partner with his 8, and Crank had his 4 in there with us until he returned to Cold Lake after completing his tour with the team. Scrape is currently contemplating the purchase of a 6A, which was part of the reason for the flight today. I think he was pretty thoroughly hooked after getting some stick time on my plane, so hopefully we'll have another convert soon.
 
Those guys are good!

I went for a media ride with the Snowbirds in 1997. It was pretty impressive being in a formation with 8 other aircraft all within a few feet of each other.

My friend has about 5200 hrs in fighters, he was flying F-18s just before he got out of the military. He's an Airbus Capt. these days. Back when we both flew around in ultra lights he would form up from time to time. He did the formation flying, I would fly as smooth as I could with the agreement that I wouldn't turn into him.

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Paul Tuttle said:
My friend has about 5200 hrs in fighters, he was flying F-18s just before he got out of the military. He's an Airbus Capt. these days. Back when we both flew around in ultra lights he would form up from time to time. He did the formation flying, I would fly as smooth as I could with the agreement that I wouldn't turn into him.
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Yup; that's pretty much been our deal too, up until today... And yeah; these guys are definitely good:)
 
Formation with a Snowbird

Hello Gerry

''Crank had his 4 in there with us until he returned to Cold Lake ''

I believe '' Crank'' (Can't remember his real name ) is the one who called me a few years ago just as he was joining the team to get some inside info on the RV-4 and to check if my own RV-4 was for sale.. ..

Was a real gemtleman to talk to and I'm glad he finally purchased his RV-4..

I have the pleasure to work with a few ex-Snowbirds and as Paul says ' They were and still are very aviation oriented..

You're one lucky formation student that's for sure...Enjoy

Cheers

Bruno
[email protected]
 
Boy what an honor to have this kind of talent in your plane with you during your training.
What 3 things do you remember him say, or that stuck with you, that he focused on with you?
 
Bruno: Crank's name is Yannick Gregoire; he is indeed a really good guy, and from what I hear, a ride in a Hornet with him is one of life's more disorienting experiences (and this comes from people who have more than a couple of backseat rides in the 18)!

Kahuna: Couldn't agree more; it's an honour and a privilege to get to learn from these guys. I am indeed a lucky guy. Since I got the RV and started flying with Laser, I find I learn something new almost every time I go to the airport. It's opened up my flying world so much it's hard to believe, and the great thing is I'll get to go out and learn more from him next week, and the week after that, and the week after that. Such an opportunity, and one that I appreciate more than I can say.

In terms of key points from the flight yesterday, I think some of the most important (coming from both pilots), were:

-Lead changes are the most critical phase of formation flight, and the moment of contract change has to be very specifically delineated to maintain safety (from Laser)
-Establishing triangulation with several visual references on the lead plane provides for more precise positioning (from Scrape)
-Hold the stick a little lower than normal to allow smaller movements, finer control, and less overcontrolling, particularly in pitch (from both). Also, maintain a few pound nose down trim to allow control with pressure rather than deliberate movement.
-Don't run into Lead!!! (From Laser, aka Lead) :)

Of course, there was much, much more, but those were a few of the major points.

By the way, I'll give Laser a bit of a plug here: Part of the reason for the flight yesterday is that he has formed a company to teach formation flying on an individual basis, and I was the first "victim". I think the idea is that if they can successfully teach me, they can teach anyone! He's not really operational yet, but keep an eye out for Welded Wings in the future.
 
gerrychuck said:
Bruno: Crank's name is Yannick Gregoire; he is indeed a really good guy, and from what I hear, a ride in a Hornet with him is one of life's more disorienting experiences (and this comes from people who have more than a couple of backseat rides in the 18)!

Kahuna: Couldn't agree more; it's an honour and a privilege to get to learn from these guys. I am indeed a lucky guy. Since I got the RV and started flying with Laser, I find I learn something new almost every time I go to the airport. It's opened up my flying world so much it's hard to believe, and the great thing is I'll get to go out and learn more from him next week, and the week after that, and the week after that. Such an opportunity, and one that I appreciate more than I can say.

In terms of key points from the flight yesterday, I think some of the most important (coming from both pilots), were:

-Lead changes are the most critical phase of formation flight, and the moment of contract change has to be very specifically delineated to maintain safety (from Laser)
-Establishing triangulation with several visual references on the lead plane provides for more precise positioning (from Scrape)
-Hold the stick a little lower than normal to allow smaller movements, finer control, and less overcontrolling, particularly in pitch (from both). Also, maintain a few pound nose down trim to allow control with pressure rather than deliberate movement.
-Don't run into Lead!!! (From Laser, aka Lead) :)

Of course, there was much, much more, but those were a few of the major points.

By the way, I'll give Laser a bit of a plug here: Part of the reason for the flight yesterday is that he has formed a company to teach formation flying on an individual basis, and I was the first "victim". I think the idea is that if they can successfully teach me, they can teach anyone! He's not really operational yet, but keep an eye out for Welded Wings in the future.
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Outstanding lessons.
Ill often say to 'Widget' who is next to me climbing into our planes before launching off....'Don't hit me!' An important rule no doubt.

Thanks for sharing some of your training. Your getting the best of the best.
 
I'll tell you.

ronschreck said:
You never tell me not to hit you??? :(
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"Smokey, don't hit Kahuna"

Great thread. It is so very important to get really good training before you dive into formation flying. You'll find it one of the most gratifying types of flying. You are never really in position, just constantly trying to be.
 
gerrychuck said:
Yeah; I'm starting to pick up on that; great way of putting it!
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I often tell students that they are constantly fighting to be in the correct position, occasionally passing through it, but never really being able to stay there for more than a split second. Fight fight fight to be there. You will be happy to see that on occasion, you might actually pass through the correct position.

thread moved to formation forum
 
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