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Why can't I decide!!!

cjensen

cjensen

Well Known Member
I'm driving myself nuts with this decision! I plan to order the fuse late this year, so I do have some time, but everyday that goes by is just that; another day gone by without a decision. I'm constantly thinking about it, and I really don't know what to do.

I'm gonna be based off of a paved airport (at least for the forseeable future), so the A makes sense. I plan to use grass strips, and someday find a piece of property to build on with a grass runway, so the TW would make sense then. I REALLY WANT a taildragger, but I am concerned with the fact that I have 2 hours of tailwheel time and 2 landings (one in a -7) which I did not find all that difficult, but it was nice and calm and whatever wind there was, was pretty much down the runway. I do like the looks of both airplanes, but I've always wanted a tailwheel airplane. I obviously would get an endorsement and transition training, but that just adds to the cost (I'm not made of money). Insurance is a factor, but according to those I've talked to, it's not a huge difference, and the second year premium would drop with additional time.

I've read ALL the related threads, so no need to post links to them. I hate to open this argument up again, but I'm agonizing over this... :eek: I know it's up to me in the end...I need help. :rolleyes:
 
The answer........

Hey Chad, you already gave the answer dude!

"I REALLY WANT a taildragger"...............quote! :D
 
LOL!

Chad, in the long run (in my opinion) it doesn't matter. They both fly fine and the sight picture from the seat is the same in both while flying.

It will come down to (again...in my opinon) what your ulimate mission winds up being down the road. Do you get a kick out of the 'perfect TW landing'? You might. Is taxi visibility very, very important to you? Will you ever aircraft camp in semi-remote backcountry strips? Etc..... Think long term (10+ years).

Some info about me before I flew my RV-6:
- I had zero TW time. I now have 600+ hrs - it wasn't that big a deal for me to learn. I find nailing a nice TW landing quite rewarding.
- I thought formation flying and acro were for CRAZY PEOPLE. I had no experience with either and now count them among my most enjoyable pasttimes.

Welcome to the affliction.

b,
d
 
Follow your heart.....

Even though I have more time left to decide then you (finishing empenage), I still can't fully commit to the TW. Building the "A" seems to me to be the easy way out. If peace of mind makes you happy....build the "A". I don't think any of us would be dissappointed with an "A". But if you are like me, I would always wonder what if. I hope to start my wings by September and as of right now I'm 95%TW and 5% NW. We'll just have to wait and see. Besides, any extra training for a TW endorsement can only make you a safer pilot! Best of luck with your decision. Either way you'll still be flying and grinning!!
 
Pierre said it all; You WANT a taildragger. The tailwheel RVs are pussy cats compared to most taildraggers. There is nothing "macho" about flying a TW RV. (even thought we still try to keep that image) If you wanted a nose wheel, that's fine too. But with proper training, you too can MASTER THE MIGHTY TAILWHEEL!
 
You've got me beat, at least you know you want a -7. I'm still bouncing around between RV-10, F-1 Rocket, RV-8, or Radial Rocket.
 
I as well only have a few tail wheel landings and never gave any consideration to getting an -8A. My RV friends in the area said If I can ride a bicycle I can fly a tail dragger. It sounds to me that you would look at your RV 7A when it finished and say , I wish I had of done that instead.

Paul Tuttle
RV 8 Fuselage
 
I went through the same agony last summer, Chad. No suggestions, except that you should be true to yourself (whatever that means!). I made my decision and, as tough as it was, I have not really thought much about it since. Others have pointed out why following your heart is not a bad thing in this case. I agree with all of the above. Good luck.
 
I think you should use the scientific approach.....enie, miney, miney, mo!

A quarter works well for heads or tail also.

I know it's a big decision but I couldn't consider anything but a tail dragger. They are too much fun. Just my opinion.
 
Even though I am a data-driven engineer, I agree with everyone that says to go with your heart on this one. I built an -8 because in my personal opinion, I just think that an -8 looks better as a taildragger. I can fly either one, so that wasn't a driver. It just came down to my personal perception of "the perfect airplane" !

Paul
 
go with your heart

Hey Chad:

It seems pretty clear from your message that you have an emotional attachment to the taildragger, so unless Brittne is strongly opposed, do what your heart tells you to do. Your 2 hours of tailwheel time shouldn't scare you away considering you are in a flying environment daily, probably have lots of opportunity to get the checkout and to practice.

I knew that I wanted a trike gear plane and a side-by-side, so the choice for me was clear -- 7A.

Hey, do you know when you are going up to Oshkosh? I am going Thursday through Sunday.

Antony
 
aparchment said:
Hey Chad:

Hey, do you know when you are going up to Oshkosh? I am going Thursday through Sunday.

Antony
Click to expand...
Planning on being there Monday-Wed/Thurs. My dad has to shoot a wedding over the weekend of OSH, so we can't do our usual Wed-Sun. this year.

Thanks for all the replies so far everyone!! I *think* this is helping... :)
 
I wonder if part of Chad's conundrum is that he's listening to everyone else's hearts.

Chad, it shouldn't mean diddleysquat what other people tell you. Just sit down and list what the most important advantage or disadvantage of either configuration is to YOU, and you should easily be able to decide and be happy with it.

Not to persuade you, but to offer a simple example, my decision for the -A model came about quickly because, for ME, there were two most important considerations. And they were visibility while taxiing, and my not having any taildragger time nor really caring about getting any.
Those are MY reasons but may very well be totally unimportant to you, so my giving those reasons in trying to convince you which way to go would be silly.

Pick it and do it and never look back. :)
 
I need to give my buddy Jack Holland (JACKR here) a call for a motivator...again. He has one SWEET -7! Another ride would help...I think... :rolleyes:
 
GEE WIZ Chad, for crying out loud. Do you think I'm never going to let you fly my 7 again?? You did make a good landing in it, you'll be fine. I went to Pekin Sunday afternoon, rnwy 27, wind 188 18 gusting to 24, not a problem. I'll make sure you get some more time. Now get that nose dragger out of your head :)
 
In my opinion (900-950 hrs RV flying, cfi, engineer) the RV nosewheel is a little too weak for the average pilot and for many marginal surfaces. Have seen several RV nosewheel mishaps, but never a tailwheel problem. Not the perfect comparison or a comment on nosewheel RV pilots, just an observation.

RV's are a very, very tame conventional gear airplane. One of the most controllable and predictable (on the ground) I've ever flown. The average RV quality pilot should have no problem with a little training beforehand. Ground visibility from my -8 is good. With just a little head tip I can see over the cowling fine. Not as good as a nosedragger, but good.

Last, they just look better! Hands down. The RV's are a really good looking plane with conventional gear.

2 cents

Bryan -8, 820 hrs
Houston
 
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I like em both!

I got my tailwheel endorsement in a Citabria when I had about 150 hrs since private. I did it because it was FUN and something new to do with flying. I also did some aerobatic training (spins, loops & rolls) for something else new to do as well as the safety aspects of learning what to do in unusual attitudes. I rented it for about 25 hours more until they took it off line.

I wish they made a tri-tail-dragger (-7B?) with a retractable nosewheel/tailwheel. On calm to moderate windy days and when parked, I would definitely be in tailwheel mode. Looks cooler when on the ground (opinion)! It is also more fun to land, especially wheel landings, or three point, you have the option to pick and see how well you can do it. Kind of like a game!

However, on windier days I just feel more comfortable with the nose gear out front (no particular reason). In either airplane you have to USE THE RUDDER to stay on centerline. My game when I land my airplane is to see if I can put it exactly on centerline within 50 feet of where I thought I would touch, stay on centerline, and keep the nose off the ground until the speed bleeds away and forces it down. It makes it KIND of like a 3 point landing in a taildragger, but then I get to taxi and see where I'm going.

That is where it would be fun to have the "extend nosegear/retract tailwheel" switch for taxiing, and then "extend tailwheel/retract nosegear" to dismount and look cool!

In the end I built an "A" model because I use my plane more for travel and don't do touch and go's very often. Sometimes I wish I could "turn on" the tailwheel mode and have fun landing, but I'm happy with my decision (and my insurance premiums). I have enough buddies with the tailwheel that if I feel the urge, I can just go with them!

Good luck!
 
I go back and forth on this, too... I was leaning toward a -9, since I would be operating out of a grass strip (and they do look sooo much better!). Now I'm leaning toward a -9A, 'cause Van's says -9's are harder to keep on the ground when you land! -9's want to keep flying, since they're in the flying attitude, and wont stop as short as -9As will. Van's recommends a -9A even for grass strips.
This probably doesn't apply to you, since (I've heard) -9/9A's fly quite a bit differently than any of the others. And you're getting some practice in a -7, so you know what you're getting into! All I "know" is what I hear...
 
Chad, I feel your pain :eek:
I'm in the same position right now and have been leaning "a" since I started.
Guess what !! I've decided Taildragger 8.
T\W time is limited but .. it's a challange I enjoy (and it's sooo much fun :cool: ).I also believe it makes you a better pilot.
Good luck!
Steve
81604
N184SM (res.)
 
I went thru the same thing when I started. One thing stuck out for me, when someone at Vans asked what my experience was in. Besides a few thousand hours of helicopter time, all my F/W time was in tri gear aircraft, including several hours instructing in them. I was asked why I would want to build something that I didn't have experience in. That made sense to me and I went with an A model. Insurance might be another consideration. Just my two cents to further confuse you......
 
Chad,
I too am in the same boat as you are. I didn't have any tailwheel time when I started my -7A and didn't even consider the -7. While waiting for my wings to arrive, I had some time to kill and took a lesson in a citabria. The first lesson was difficult for me. It took a lot more skill to fly it then a 172 - but I liked it. So far I have 4.4 hours of tw and really enjoy it a lot. It made flying more fun for me. I think my arm is twisted now to go with the -7!
 
I have to agree with Glen. If you're giving the taildragger serious consideration, you should get lots more time in one. Not that it is a bad choice, it's just that you need to make an informed decision after the excitement of the new challenge has worn off.
 
Thanks for all the GREAT replies everyone! I've said it before, I'll say it again, and you all will agree with me that THIS IS A GREAT PLACE TO HANG OUT!

Thanks friends. :cool:

I have to say that my HEART is telling me TW ALL THE WAY. I asked Brittne about it tonight, and SHE wants the TW (she thinks it looks better-can't argue that!). I'll get some more time in Jack's -7, and each time will convince me further that I should build the TW (as will Jack!:eek: ). Is it necessarily the most practical thing to do? Nope, but who ever said flying anything for fun was practical?
 
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Chad -

Glad you & the misses are in sync!

For my 9 / 9A - I had to make the decision early since the empennage kit assembly is slightly different between the two.

I have my tailwheel endorsement but eventually chose the 9A.
Why??? -

- Well... I'm short (5 - 6 1/2") - and had a heck of a time looking over the cowl (yeah I know about S turns.. but still).
- I will be operating almost entirely out of paved runways.
- There is negligible difference in performance.
- No matter what anybody thinks - It is more forgiving to land
- (...and I hate to bring it up for fear of the possible replies) but If I ever decide to sell - there are a lot more prospective buyers).

Did I make the right decison? Yes - I'm building a Van's!!

Lorin D
9A Wings
N194LD
 
I love my tail dragger, but geez, you will like whatever you decide. No bad choices, just two good ones to pick between

Follow your heart
 
You know what I think!

Chad,

I don't think I even need to tell you what I think. But just in case, Jack and I will TRY to go easy on you if you decide the other way. ;)
 
LORIN, 5' 6 1/2" IS NOT SHORT!!!!!

I'm 5' 4" and in my RV, I'm as tall as anybody! Seriously, height makes no difference in an RV. You simply adjust the cushions to where your eyeballs are at the same level as everyone else. As a matter of fact, many of the regional jets have a referance plate at the windshield so you can adjust the seat. Then anyone flying the airplane has the exact same view.
 
Mel
I can see it now....
- me strapped down on top of 3 pillows
- and a couple of 4x4's duct taped to the rudder pedals.....
Nice visual.... LOL
Lorin D
 
N713R said:
Chad,

I don't think I even need to tell you what I think. But just in case, Jack and I will TRY to go easy on you if you decide the other way. ;)
Click to expand...
Nope, you don't. No worries, I'll put it on the right end...I don't want to hear it from you guys. :rolleyes: :)
 
Chad-

Definitely go with what you want. I decided on the -8 with all of 1.1 hours of tailwheel time ... now that I have 15+ in the 170 I am loving it. It really isn't much more difficult than the skyhawk ... and I have a blast with it! And it is fun pulling up to the restaurant or fuel pump and looking like the "steely eyed tailwheel pilot".

My CFI buddy, Stu, has some 2x4's with holes drilled in them tie-wrapped to the pedals in his -6. He's pretty short. Works fine, as when I get dual in the -6 I fly from the right seat so the controls are more like they'll be in the -8!

Thomas
-8 wings
 
Well, I flew Jack's -7 again today! Flew from the left seat. Taxi and takeoff were a piece of cake (first taxi and takeoff in a -7), but I botched the landing again. :eek: It's not a deterrent, I just gotta learn how to do it!! Still had a blast, and I will conquer the TW!! :D

Thanks again Jack! :cool:
 
Chad, you needn't be a super pilot! Just have some faith in yourself and build the TW! I know you can do it!

;) CJ
 
A former boss of mine used to say "make a decision and then work like **** to make it look like the right decision."

Actually, in this situation there really isn't a bad or better decision. It sure does sound like your heart is telling you TW, though. I am going NW. Tastes great! Less filling! Tastes great! Less filling! ... :)
 
apatti said:
Actually, in this situation there really isn't a bad or better decision. It sure does sound like your heart is telling you TW, though. I am going NW. Tastes great! Less filling! Tastes great! Less filling! ... :)
Click to expand...

My heart told me that a North American P51D Mustang "taildragger" was my favorite aircraft.......period

It also told me that a Aviat Husky "taildragger" is great for those backcountry adventures, and I love em'.

But when it came to my "6", it was being practical in the sense that I wasn't trying to make it a bush plane or fighter; and the fact that I think the "6A" just looks of more substance........... when it isn't squatting with it's tail down! :D

L.Adamson RV6A
 
I don't think you can really go wrong either way.

When I started shopping for a (prebuilt) RV, I really had my heart set on a taildragger. However, when a near perfectly built low time nosewheel version became available I jumped on it.

My last 4 airplanes have been taildraggers (Tcraft, C140, C170, Citabria) and I still sometimes wish the 3rd wheel was on the other end, but it still a great plane. The combination of the relatively fragile nosewheel and my newness to RV's has kept me away from some of the short/rough turf strips that I used to frequent, but I have no regrets.

Now if I was building? :rolleyes: ;)
 
My fuselage kit (9A model Slider) should arrive Monday. I'm sure glad I don't have to agonize over that decision any more. Now that it's over I'm a happy camper. Now all I have to stress over is the paint scheme! :)
 
Quit stalling. Start building. I started out building the 8. I'm 6'4" tall. After sitting in both the 8 & 8A, I opted to change my 8 to an 8A. (the 8A has more leg room) All I had to do was drill out 20 3/16" rivets in the F-804 (main spar bulkhead) assembly (which is part of the wing kit) It was easy. Bottom line is you aren't locked in until you buy the fuselage kit, so stop stalling and get to building! The empennage is the same. For the wing kit, order the 8, that's what you really want. If you change your mind, removing those 20 rivets if you want an 8A is easy.
Charlie Kuss ;)
 
Tailwheel or Nosewheel ??

I'm about to order my fuselage kit and facing the ultimate 7 or 7A decision. To those who were in this same situation and are flying now, do you regret the decision you eventually made?


Doug
Wings
RV-7?
 
Wow! Here's a blast from the thread past! I'm not flying yet...but I have earned a tailwheel endorsement, and I fell in love with flying all over again that month. I have a few landings in an RV-7, and it's not a big deal.

As has been said probably approaching a million times before, build what you want, and learn to fly it well.

I have not regretted the TW decision one bit since ordering the fuse a couple years ago, and I'm POSITIVE that I won't regret it once I am flying.

:cool:
 
Things I didn't think about

I too couldn't decide which way to go. I have over 600 hours and all but about 130 of them have been in a TW (Aeronca Sedan). I fully intended to build the TW and I even got a ride in Van's -9. But, the guys at Van's talked me out of the -9 and into the -9A. Ken told me that if he could do it over again, he'd build an A. It also was pointed out that the -9A could get it's tail down lower during flair making touch down very slow. I've always told myself that if faced with a difficult decision when choosing options, I would go with the safer choice. To me, landing slower is safer. Here is why I went with the -9A:

1-Visibility is slightly better (but not that bad in the 9).

2-I like the fact that you land slower.

3-I reasoned that I will grow old with this airplane and my landing skills might deteriorate. The -9A I assume is slightly easier to land for an old guy. :)

4-I like how tall the tail is on the ground. I think it stands proud and looks pretty cool. By the same token, the TW looks sexy as heck!

Even after making my decision, I'm still kind of torn and there are a couple of things that I DID NOT think about such as:

1-I didn't know about the folding nosewheels when I made my decision. Even though it looks like Van's may have solved the problem with the redesigned nosewheel, why take the chance?

2-You can actually steer the TW using your rudder pedals. In the nosewheel version, you steer with brakes. You lose a brake, you lose your steering. Not so with a TW. The rudder is connected to the TW so you could still steer without brakes.

3-The TW is very easy to get off the ground if you have to work on it. Just lift the tail and put it on a short stool. I'm not sure how you do the same with the nosewheel.

The bottom line though, I know, once I get flying, it's not going to make a bit of difference. I'm going to love my airplane!!!

Pick one and go for it!

Kelly Johnson
-9A finishing
 
This is such a personal decision. As I've said before, build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!

I elected to build a -9 because I wanted the low landing and high cruise speeds it provides, even with a small engine. Heck, using a small engine gave me a high useful load.

The TW vs NW choice was simple, I never even considered a NW.

While it is true the NW -9 may be able to land slower, the TW -9 still lands very slowly.

Probably the biggest issue with the -9, either TW or NW, is with that wonderful wing, it is very possible to be rolling out and find yourself flying again when you get hit with a gust of wind.
 
Crosswind landings

I've had the good fortune to log over 100 hours in a tailwheel RV-7 over the last 18 months. It is a fantanstic crosswind airplane. I'm every bit as confident landing the RV-7 in a strong crosswind as I am my nosewheel Cessna Cardinal (also a great crosswind bird), and I've logged over 1100 hours in the Cardinal. I've never flown one, but I expect that the 7A is a great crosswind bird as well. RV's handle so well that they quickly build your confidence.

I also don't think taxi visibility is an issue at all if you use the correct seat height for you.

Seems like you might be sorry if you build the nosewheel bird as it is not really what you want. I do not think there is even a slim chance you will be sorry you built a taildragger after you fly it for a few hours.

Good luck with your choice, and remember that it's great to have one.
 
Hey Chad, now that I "are a" tailwheel pilot as I have the endorsement and no scratches on my 7.......yet,........phist...let me let you in on a secret....all that talk of "us" tailwheel pilots being far superior airmen than nosedraggers is only spoken when nosedraggers are around.....get my drift:cool: It's far too difficult for the "average" pilot to ever achieve.;);) remember that and speak it often:p

With that said, there is nothing better than taxing her up to the hangar door, locking that right brake and swinging her around while pulling the mixture, so the engine quits as you push yourself up on the seat back of your slider taildragger........oh, that's a totally new thread...slider...;)
 
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:D I can't wait!! Although...my tip up won't allow getting up on the seat as I shut 'er down...;)

What are you still doing awake at this late hour!? Planning a fly in, I hope!:eek::):):):cool:
 
Ok a small nudge towards the nosewheel

The reason I went with a 7a is that I had visions of shooting a nasty crosswing instrument approach down to mins after a 10 hour cross country and being half beaten to death before I loaded the approach..

Ok how many times has that happened?...NONE! and if it was likely to I might be spending a night in the hotel anyway..:)

Frank
 
So far I have over 2400hrs in tail wheel RV6's and about 300hrs in tricycle RV's (mostly 7A, some 6A, 8A and RV10). I have found the TW RV's to be very competent crosswind airplanes with proper pilot technique. The highest crosswind I ever tackled in my 7A was at St. George Utha, 28 gusting to 35 mph at 80 degrees to the runway. I did not think it would work but decided to give it a try and was pleasantly surprised when it resulted in a decent landing. I have landed at that airport several times in my RV6 when the winds were about 5mph less and that was manageable too.

There are two things I dislike about the taildragger, the reduced visibility on the ground and the harsh ride the small tail wheel provides on rough pavement and large concrete expansion joints. The main draw back of the tri-gear is the nose wheel's vulnerability to rough ground.

Overall I am a fan of both configurations and am glad I have been able to enjoy them both.

Martin Sutter
building and flying RV's since 1988
 
Martin Sutter said:
...There are two things I dislike about the taildragger, the reduced visibility on the ground and the harsh ride the small tail wheel provides on rough pavement and large concrete expansion joints...
Click to expand...
Yes, where I notice it is with those little taxiway reflectors. Have to taxi off center.
 
Where no Nosewheel has ventured....

Taxiway reflectors? You guys obviously fly off pavement WAY too much...:) Having flown both configurations, I'll stick with the ORIGINAL RV configuration, the TD for my rough strip, too many fireant mounds!

Rob Ray
Old School RV4 builder
HR2
 
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