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Which gauges should stay "old school" in a glass cockpit

H

humptybump

Well Known Member
I'm in the early design phase of a glass cockpit and trying to determine which panel gauges need to persistent.

Definitely the Airspeed indicator and the Altimeter.

What about the Oil temp / pressure ?

Others?
 
If you were to keep "round" airspeed, altimeter, oil press, oil temp I wouldn't call it a "glass" cockpit!;)
 
You don't need to back up "glass" with Steam....you can back it up with dissimilar glass just as well. Unless you're afraid that the laws of physics will change, and electricity will stop working.... ;)

Think "functions" that you need to have, then list ways of achieving those functions. Start without the preconception of "I need a mechanical airspeed indicator", and think "I need two ways of seeing airspedd"...and see where that takes you.

Paul
 
If the old school stuff is there only to cover an occasion when the new school glass stuff goes TU -- then all you need is enough to land the plane safely.

VFR - Airspeed

IFR - Airspeed - Altimeter - Artificial Horizon (preferred) or Turn and Bank
 
Just an opinion

When I originally planned my panel, it was all steam gauges. Then the glass revolution arrived and ruined my grand plan. I ended up getting 5x the info for less money and less weight.

However, being the untrusting soul that I am regarding technology, I planned for some "backup" instruments -- airspeed, altitude, glideslope indicator and my TruTrack autopilot for a backup attitude indicator.

I never look at them. Never.

If I had it to plan my panel now, I wouldn't waste the space for the "backup" steam gauges. I'd get a TruTrack Gemini autopilot, which would be all of the backup instrumentation I would need in case my Dynons failed.

On the other hand, I only fly day VFR. IFR flight would probably demand a totally different protocol.
 
Depends...

Depends on your equipage, but my AFS G meter only goes to 5 Gs. Not that I plan to exceed 5 Gs anytime soon, I do want to know if I inadvertently exceed the airframe limitation of 6 Gs so I installed a small G meter.
 
Ironflight said:
You don't need to back up "glass" with Steam....you can back it up with dissimilar glass just as well. Unless you're afraid that the laws of physics will change, and electricity will stop working.... ;)

Paul
Click to expand...

That's what I did. The Dynon backs up my AFS for basic attitude/heading reference.

FP28062011A00023.jpg
 
Ironflight said:
You don't need to back up "glass" with Steam....you can back it up with dissimilar glass just as well. Unless you're afraid that the laws of physics will change, and electricity will stop working.... ;)
Paul
Click to expand...
Just make sure your backup uses a different power source. Not usually a problem with the high capacity internal batteries included in many units.
 
MGL Xtreme might make a good backup too.

I just installed a SkyView and put the ASI and ALT gauges back in more because I had them then because I thought I needed them. My plane is VFR Day/Night but I rarely fly at night so the need for backups is minimal.
 
I kept a traditional 6 pack with the Dynon as the AH because I liked the look and glass was just starting to be proven at that time. To me, all glass just didn't look right. I know, times are changing, and you can get glass with a six pack look right on the screen.
I still find that my scan carries me through the six pack just like it always has which gives me multiple cross checks. It also hinders me from truly using my glass.
Totally uneccessary today, I agree.

I still don't like the look of many of the "all glass" panels. They either look way to messy, busy, and unbalanced, or way to skimpy with lots of open panel space. It takes some real thought to get the panel to look right in my opinion. Some get it right, but most just dont look good to my eye.
That is just me.
 
JonJay said:
I kept a traditional 6 pack with the Dynon as the AH because I liked the look and glass was just starting to be proven at that time. To me, all glass just didn't look right. I know, times are changing, and you can get glass with a six pack look right on the screen.
I still find that my scan carries me through the six pack just like it always has which gives me multiple cross checks. It also hinders me from truly using my glass.
Totally uneccessary today, I agree.

I still don't like the look of many of the "all glass" panels. They either look way to messy, busy, and unbalanced, or way to skimpy with lots of open panel space. It takes some real thought to get the panel to look right in my opinion. Some get it right, but most just dont look good to my eye.
That is just me.
Click to expand...

No, it's not just you, Jon. I'm the same way. I'm sure that the information that units like the G3X provide is incredible, but it's more than I want or need and, like you, they look blah to me from an aesthetic perspective.

Were I to re-do my panel, I'm not sure what I'd get. But whatever I would do, it would be SYMMETRICAL! I really like looking at my panel because it is, to me, aesthetically pleasing -- as well as complete for my needs.

I guess old farts like me just like to see a few round dials. :D
 
When I was planning my panel, I was thinking of two different brand EIFS/Glass for redundancy. Then two things happened

There was a report for a plane (I believe certified) with no steam gauges and only redundant Glass panel which had an electrical melt down that lost all power to both EIFS.

The second thing that gave me pause, was that in case of discrepancies, which EIFS was I going to trust since they are based on programming/MEMS and far more complicated than a standard gauge.

Since my panel was going to be for IFR, I added airspeed, altimeter, wet compass and an attitude/turn coordinator. My EIFS is redundant, including the AHAR/Magnetometer but I am at much more ease that I know my airspeed/altimeter will not be subject to any failure other than pitot/static.

If I build again, I will have a set of steam gauges again.


DSC_6147 by bavafa1, on Flickr
 
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Panel Design

-8A with 120 hrs. AFS 4500 with back-up airspeed, altimeter and VSI. Tru Trak ADI II. 7000+ hours flying steam gages.

Maybe it's habit - but I find myself using the AFS 4500 for nav and airspeed, but the back-up gages for altitude and VSI. Use the AFS for airspeed in the pattern since it's more in the FOV.

Good thread - just for grins I'm going to try to wean myself toward the AFS for everything. I'm probably too old to change, though.
 
pvalovich said:
Maybe it's habit - but I find myself using the AFS 4500 for nav and airspeed, but the back-up gages for altitude and VSI. Use the AFS for airspeed in the pattern since it's more in the FOV.
Click to expand...

I am suffering from the same habit, even though I have covered the altimeter with a sticky note to force myself to go with the EIFS as primary, the old habit kicks in once the sticky note is removed.

All other flight information comes from the EIFS though.
 
Airspeed indicator. Nothing easier to comprehend at a glance than a round gauge with a needle over a scale visible end-to-end. Next, an altimeter, but immediate comprehension isn't so critical. Regarding failure, if you have a turn coordinator in a device separate from the EFIS, you have a "partial panel" if the EFIS dies. It can still save your bacon.

Detroit tried digital speedometers, which is the same presentation in an EFIS. The public screamed. Good bye digital.

John Siebold
 
Backup?

GPS

Provides altitude and groundspeed and has internal power.

A few months ago I proved to myself, out of necessity, that I could get the airplane on the ground without an ASI. Made a good landing too, probably because I was concentrating a little more than normal.
 
I frequently fly an RV-8 that has nothing but a glass panel. It makes me a bit nervous not having at least a backup mechanical airspeed indicator, since as long as I know my airspeed I know I can land the plane, so I always carry a portable GPS with me in case the Dynon EFIS quits or I lose all power to it. The handheld GPS will give me a groundspeed reading that'll probably get me close enough to a proper landing speed on final. It won't be the prettiest landing, but it'll work.
 
I frequently make a mental note of my trim position vs airspeed and this gets me within +-5mph when I purposefully fly without reference to A/S - although you have to have a light touch and trust the airplane to do its thing.

I find this much easier with an aft CG in the -8 (for obvious reasons).
 
For VFR

AS, ALT and compass will get you where you want to go without the glass working. They don't need electrons to work.

If you fly IFR I would add a T&B, mine does require electrons.

Kent
 
Steam

I regularly fly two different airplanes with single Aspen units. We have all the steam guages except dg/hsi. I would not fly the Aspen airplanes without the steam airspeed and altimeter and either the turn and bank or the attitude gyro. I just cannot cope with the Aspen airspeed and altitude display. My biggest complaint with the Aspen is that at minimum brightness it is still too bright at night for the black hole airports that we use on a regular basis. If the Aspen were about 50% larger I might like it a lot better.
 
I have a dual screen TruTrak Efis setup with the view set as round gauges. It can be switched to tape style but I really like the round gauge look and haven't missed the analog gauges at all. I will be adding a Gemini PFD as a third backup with its own power source for that warm fuzzy feeling.
DSC00369_001.jpg
DSC00371.jpg
 
When I built my plane I installed a Dynon D100 EFIS and D10 EMS.

I never worried about a backup for the D10 Engine Monitor because if it went dark and the engine continued to run, I figured I could land and work that out.

For the EFIS I installed an Airspeed Indicator, Altimeter, slip ball, and compass.

The airplane never flew with the compass and Doug now has it to install in his -3. The slip ball was removed when I added Dynon?s AP74 Autopilot head.

I?m not about to replace the Dynon EFIS and EMS with a SkyView and will probably leave off the steam gauges.

The reason is that I can land the plane without an airspeed indicator (I?ve done this a number of times while trying to sort out a pitot system leak). Also, I?m leaving in my Garmin 496 so I will have the ability to navigate and know my altitude in the event of an electrical / SkyView failure.

Remember, to have true redundancy, you will need a second, independent, pitot tube and static system.

PS. Using the GPS for an airspeed reference is of limited use, you must still ?feel? how the plane is flying.
 
Bavafa said:
Since my panel was going to be for IFR, I added airspeed, altimeter, wet compass and an attitude/turn coordinator. My EIFS is redundant, including the AHAR/Magnetometer but I am at much more ease that I know my airspeed/altimeter will not be subject to any failure other than pitot/static.
Click to expand...

Mehrdad,

I like your panel and your thinking. I'm waist deep in finalizing my panel and find myself making similar decisions in terms of back up instruments for similar reasons.
 
Currently the panel page on my Aera is my backup and that is why I won't fly in IMC at all. VFR I don't need a backup, just look outside...

As soon as Trutrak releases the Gemini PFD, one is going in my panel for a full set of backups running separate code and hardware on its own backup battery.

I will then feel good about some IMC with conservative minimums. (is that better than saying lite IMC?)

My panel started as all glass and will remain that way in the years to come.

Trutrak will soon, Dynon and MGL all three have great and inexpensive options for providing a full PFD type, all glass backup solution for our panels. I chose Trutrak just because I wanted a different brand, hardware and software running on my backup. Plus it just looks cool and is very light and compact! Bonus is that it is the least expensive!
 
649PF said:
I will now invite a little abuse. What can be better than this?

http://glasspilot.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/cessna182panel.jpg

Armed with a handheld radio and perhaps a handheld gps, I don't see what you couldn't get yourself out of day or night while IFR. I plan to duplicate something similar in my -10 unless someone can talk me out of it.
Click to expand...

That is indeed a very nice setup, if money is no object.

However, one may well accomplish this panel and possibly more with other than Garmin HW. When it comes to EIFS, things are changes rapidly and depending how far away you are from actual building of the panel, you may have even better option. Eitherway, you won't go wrong and it will be a great panel.
 
All electric not for me

When I worked at the airline in a "glass" cockpit we had multiple PFD's, MFD's, and AHRS. Dual aternators, backup batteries. Plenty of backup there, but with all that, we still had steam gauges with separate info sources. They do that for a reason. I don't plan on flying in my RV in as serious IFR conditions as at the airline, but I still want info on critical things from several different sources as backup, just is common sense to me. But YMMV, it's just the way I think.
 
Backup??

You mean you guys cant land without an airspeed indicator?? No back up airspeed in my Bonanza and when it quit(plugged with bugs) I landed and cleaned the pitot. Day VFR of course. Ever heard of stick and rudder flying?
 
Stick and rudder skills are important but

edsong said:
You mean you guys cant land without an airspeed indicator?? No back up airspeed in my Bonanza and when it quit(plugged with bugs) I landed and cleaned the pitot. Day VFR of course. Ever heard of stick and rudder flying?
Click to expand...

X-country IFR,even with 1000' ceilings, I want a mechanical airspeed, attitude, and altimeter. I also want a mechanical oil pressure and temp gauge.

I can land a Pitts without an airspeed indicator. I am confident in my S&R skills, but as I have taught every student I have ever had " Always leave yourself a way out.". To fly even easy IFR without the relatively inexpensive instrumentation listed above seems to me to be limiting your options needlessly.
 
This morning I was on a Southwest flight from Orlando to Indy with the family, returning from vacation.

We taxied out and had to go back to the gate to check out a "computer problem". About a half hour later we had to switch planes.

Turned out the problem was one of the EFIS screens went black.

How many of you single-screen EFIS guys would be willing to leave your airplane somewhere for a week or two to fix a broken screen?
 
rocketbob said:
...
How many of you single-screen EFIS guys would be willing to leave your airplane somewhere for a week or two to fix a broken screen?
Click to expand...

And how many would launch with just a working airspeed, altimeter, and a handheld GPS?
 
N941WR said:
When I built my plane I installed a Dynon D100 EFIS and D10 EMS.

I never worried about a backup for the D10 Engine Monitor because if it went dark and the engine continued to run, I figured I could land and work that out.

For the EFIS I installed an Airspeed Indicator, Altimeter, slip ball, and compass.

The airplane never flew with the compass and Doug now has it to install in his -3. The slip ball was removed when I added Dynon?s AP74 Autopilot head.

I?m not about to replace the Dynon EFIS and EMS with a SkyView and will probably leave off the steam gauges.

The reason is that I can land the plane without an airspeed indicator (I?ve done this a number of times while trying to sort out a pitot system leak). Also, I?m leaving in my Garmin 496 so I will have the ability to navigate and know my altitude in the event of an electrical / SkyView failure.

Remember, to have true redundancy, you will need a second, independent, pitot tube and static system.

PS. Using the GPS for an airspeed reference is of limited use, you must still ?feel? how the plane is flying.
Click to expand...


I agree Bill. When I first purchased my aircraft I was a bit skeptical of the redundancy in the panel. I am now very comfortable with the options it provides. I really have a D10A and a mag compass plus T&B for basic instrumentation. To back that up If the D10 failed I have the autopilot which has its own gyros. In addition I would have the 696 which is completely self contained. I have practices a bit using it and it would work fine to get me down. The airspeed off the GPS will keep you safe and I can transition to the AOA for final approach speeds. I will however replace the T&B with a Gemini if they add a RMI mode like the D10A has.
I like the AOA as a backup for Airspeed. Most Airspeed installations I have seen work off the same pitot static system. Not much real redundancy there since I suspect most failures occur in that portion of the system. Even if I install the Gemini it would be teed off the current system. AOA is completely independent however requires power.

George
 
N355DW said:
When I worked at the airline in a "glass" cockpit we had multiple PFD's, MFD's, and AHRS. Dual aternators, backup batteries. Plenty of backup there, but with all that, we still had steam gauges with separate info sources. They do that for a reason. I don't plan on flying in my RV in as serious IFR conditions as at the airline, but I still want info on critical things from several different sources as backup, just is common sense to me. But YMMV, it's just the way I think.
Click to expand...

Those days are rapidly going away. No steam gauge backups at all in most newer airliners. In fact the standard backup on most is now a mini EFIS looking a lot like the Gemini. The advantage a airliner has is that typically the backups be it a EFIS or steam is run off a independent pitot static source. If you really wanted the best backup in a RV I think the Gemini or a competitors product with a second pitot static system would be the way to go. For what I intend to do as far as IFR the AOA combined with a GPS is enough for me.

George
 
N941WR said:
And how many would launch with just a working airspeed, altimeter, and a handheld GPS?
Click to expand...

I have around 600 hrs x-country time in a Pitts S2-B and Extra 230 with pretty much exactly that. No gyros, no VSI, one comm, the only nav was a Garmin 196, and I had WAC chart in my lap. Day VFR it's fine, your back up is to look out the window if something breaks. I wouldn't fly in marginal conditions without a lot more.
 
N941WR said:
...
The reason is that I can land the plane without an airspeed indicator (I’ve done this a number of times while trying to sort out a pitot system leak).
...
Remember, to have true redundancy, you will need a second, independent, pitot tube and static system.
...
Click to expand...

BTW, the pitot system leak took out both airspeed indicators, which is why you need to have redundent pitot and static systems.

An interesting note, on one test I disconnected the D100 from the pitot system and left the steam gauge connnected. During this flight, the D100 continued to show airspeed but the changed color and the unit displayed a message indicating the airspeed was derived from the GPS. What an outstanding design!
 
sailvi767 said:
Those days are rapidly going away. No steam gauge backups at all in most newer airliners. In fact the standard backup on most is now a mini EFIS looking a lot like the Gemini. The advantage a airliner has is that typically the backups be it a EFIS or steam is run off a independent pitot static source. If you really wanted the best backup in a RV I think the Gemini or a competitors product with a second pitot static system would be the way to go. For what I intend to do as far as IFR the AOA combined with a GPS is enough for me.

George
Click to expand...

I believe you, this was back in the nineties and I am well out the airline loop now. I guess my point is to have a few critical instruments that have independent systems, and I am unfamiliar with the Gemini, so that is worth checking out. Old fashioned I may be, but I would prefer a mechanical oil temp and pressure, and altitude and airspeed. Perhaps the backup attitude gyro could be electric, not sure I want to install a vacuum system for one gyro, but I would want a dedicated battery and separate wiring system for it alone.
 
rocketbob said:
This morning I was on a Southwest flight from Orlando to Indy with the family, returning from vacation.

We taxied out and had to go back to the gate to check out a "computer problem". About a half hour later we had to switch planes.

Turned out the problem was one of the EFIS screens went black.

How many of you single-screen EFIS guys would be willing to leave your airplane somewhere for a week or two to fix a broken screen?
Click to expand...

Doing IOE in a Embraer 120 my PFD suddenly looked like somebody "flushed" it - it actually swirled around and looked like it went down a drain. This was over 15 years ago and I don't remember all the details, but I do remember we were able to placard it, and fly home with passengers using the remaining 4 screens. Your guys must have had a more restrictive MEL.
 
N355DW said:
I believe you, this was back in the nineties and I am well out the airline loop now. I guess my point is to have a few critical instruments that have independent systems, and I am unfamiliar with the Gemini, so that is worth checking out. Old fashioned I may be, but I would prefer a mechanical oil temp and pressure, and altitude and airspeed. Perhaps the backup attitude gyro could be electric, not sure I want to install a vacuum system for one gyro, but I would want a dedicated battery and separate wiring system for it alone.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the new world - and the new way of thinking. It's not about "having vacuum", or even having "mechanical" systems - smart design is about knowing what functions are critical for a given operation, and making sure that you have at least one backup plan to provide that function. And, of course, you need to be honest about your real redundancy....yes, that means redundant electrical back to the source if you depend on electrical instruments.

Instruments/avionics/systems are the fastest-advancing part of experimental aviation.
 
Funny Story

Funny story about a full electric out situation. My Sheriffs Office got a brand new Savannah VG STOL airplane from the Feds. I went and picked it up had a 1 hour check out flight with the ferry pilot and was cut loose to fly it back to our home field solo. No problem. Then the next day our radio guy came out to the hanger and set up the police comm. on the airplane. He wanted to go up and check out how it worked.

On the taxi out he made the comment that he had never been in any kind of airplane before in his life. We took off and I could tell he was extremely nervous but he assured me that he really wanted to take a flight. After about 10 minutes of flying I lost all of the electric. And I mean all of it. We had a back up battery system and guess what, we lost that to. The airplane was all electric so I lost the flaps, trim instruments the whole nine yards. I had logged a total of about three hours in it. The plane uses the Rotax 912 which at the time I knew nothing about.

I held my breath that the fan would keep spinning and turned back for the airport. When the EFIS went out my passenger got so scared that he tossed his cookies all over the front of himself. To say that my stress level was high is an understatement. I had a total of 2 landings in the plane and now I had no flaps, instruments or trim. My passenger was so scared that he actually tried to rip the stick out of my hand and take over control of the airplane when the airport came into view.

I let him take the stick and I crossed my arms, looked at him and said ?I got 4000 hours in the air what you got?? He let go of the stick and started to hyperventilate. I shot my approach hot and set up to sit the airplane down on the 1000 foot marks. We floated because of the extra speed I was carrying but still made a nice soft landing before the end of the runway. As soon as I pulled up in front of the hanger he opened his door fell out onto the ground on his knees and tossed the rest of his lunch.

Come to find out the ignition switch melted down and the back up battery system wasn?t wired up right from the factory. If I had a few working steam gauges I could have calmed my passenger down a lot. I could have pointed to the ALT and AS and said ?ALT and AS are a pilots best friend? . He told me later that when we lost everything he couldn?t help thinking that I would get lost and such without the GPS and gauges. And that the airplane would catch on fire or something. A non pilot is pretty clueless to what?s going on up there.

Believe me if that?s all it takes to make a non flying passenger feel better in an emergency then it?s a small price to pay because he took my stress level from a 3 to a 10 when he started getting sick and trying to take control of the aircraft. My RV 8 will have a back up steam AS and ALT.
 
Ironflight said:
Welcome to the new world - and the new way of thinking. It's not about "having vacuum", or even having "mechanical" systems - smart design is about knowing what functions are critical for a given operation, and making sure that you have at least one backup plan to provide that function. And, of course, you need to be honest about your real redundancy....yes, that means redundant electrical back to the source if you depend on electrical instruments.

Instruments/avionics/systems are the fastest-advancing part of experimental aviation.
Click to expand...

Well, don't welcome me quite yet!;) It may be about "smart design" these days, but if I have a pitot and static line connected to an altimeter and airspeed indicator, it seems like adding an unnecessary layer to then hook it up to something that requires electrons for me to interpret the data. Another layer that can malfunction.

Don't get me wrong, I am a technophile as much as most pilots are, and love the new gadgets. I am quite comfortable learning new technologies and using them. I'm going to put the best I can afford in mine, and in many ways it will out do the cockpit of every airliner I have flown, I am quite sure. But while I love all the gadgets, I am very aware that each and every one is just another fancy toy that can break or just mess up. Electronic toys with computer chips especially. I will never put all my trust in them, no matter how many there are, especially when for very little money I can have a simple mechanical back up.

Great discussion, I am learning a lot! I am very glad I joined this forum, the things I learn here will no doubt help me to build the best plane I possibly can.
 
I'm also "old school".

I'm getting used to my "glass cockpit" as well. I learned back in '67, so yeah, I'm old school too.:)

A well thought out dash can be really sweet, with steam gauge backup. The guys that built my -10 did a great job:

Dash-10.jpg


The 'round' AH is my autopilot but functions as a very good artificial horizon.

Best,
 
If your primary mission is day/vfr, then I think I could get away with only an oil pressure idiot light as my backup. In the unlikely event of total electrical failure, ASI or altimeter are not needed as long as you can look out the window. In fact, I have a friend who is so glued to the panel in flight that lately I have been turning everything off and covering the steam gages to force him to look outside. It's amazing how quickly your other senses take over when you have to feel/listen to the airplane rather than simply drive by some numbers on a screen.

If you're day/VFR, I consider "primary" instruments as simply "pilot aids"... sight picture, sounds and feel come first.
 
Toobuilder said:
ASI or altimeter are not needed as long as you can look out the window.
Click to expand...

Nope... Alt is critical in the modern airspace, and ASI impossible without other instruments to cross check.

Vibration is the enemy of electronics, and an airplane is the single worst environment according to the mil spec mtbf figures. You are expecting the manufacturer to have undertaken a risk assessment in the design process, and designed out any weaknesses.

I expect most major manufacturers to have been responsible in their design process, but in a commercial environment with a few niche manufacturers this may not be the case. This is too big a risk for me so I have a back up Alt and ASI.

Doug Gray
20 years as a defense contractor in the supply of mil electronics.
RV-6 flying
 
Doug said:
Nope... Alt is critical in the modern airspace, and ASI impossible without other instruments to cross check...
Click to expand...

Perhaps we look at "critical" differently. To me "critical" means "if you lose it, you might die". If you define critical as being able to press on with the mission, then I'm more inclined to agree.

However, since I can fly around just fine (day/VFR) without even looking at the panel, this does not even come close to a critical instrument for safety of flight.
 
Doug said:
Nope... Alt is critical in the modern airspace, and ASI impossible without other instruments to cross check.

Vibration is the enemy of electronics, and an airplane is the single worst environment according to the mil spec mtbf figures. You are expecting the manufacturer to have undertaken a risk assessment in the design process, and designed out any weaknesses.

I expect most major manufacturers to have been responsible in their design process, but in a commercial environment with a few niche manufacturers this may not be the case. This is too big a risk for me so I have a back up Alt and ASI.

Doug Gray
20 years as a defense contractor in the supply of mil electronics.
RV-6 flying
Click to expand...


OK, I respect that you have years of experience with Mil Spec electronics. What experience do you have with the modern GA, experimental avionics systems? I have quite a few years of flying behind numerous manufacturers devices, totaling thousands of hours - and I have traded notes with thousands of other pilots here and elsewhere in the experimental world. While I have seen failures in the new EFIS's, none of them have been directly attributable to vibration.

For those who are worried about the loss of airspeed indication, as long as I have a single Pitot tube, I have the same vulnerability to loss of airspeed as those with a steam gauge. And I am with those who define critical as "if it fails, and you have no backup, you will die". I certainly don't put airspeed in that category for VFR, and for IFR, I have been flying around with a single Pitot tube for decades.
 
Nice thread. Since I have a bit of experience with the subject, I thought I might offer my $0.02 worth. You get what you pay for.

I flew strictly steam from 1960 to 1986. Flew mixed and combination of steam and glass from 1986 to 1996. All glass since 1996.

If I ever update my panel it will be pure glass. The only way to fly. I think that a vacuum pump is the sorriest thing ever put on an airplane.

In addition, as has been mentioned, if you want true redundancy, you must have two pitot and static sources.

YMMV.

Regards,

Bill
 
First, thanks to everyone for posting your thoughts and experinc as it relates to redundant systems and backups for flight instrumentation.

On one point brought up above, I want to pass along my own experience ...

I have first person experience with vibration related failure.

My autopilot started failing and throwing errors on a recent flight. It's not "current" so it was not under warrentee and not worth the $1000 to have the manufacturer bench it (given i was already planning an upgrade).

I opened the unit, re-seated all the boards and it's working fine once again.​

So, I have at least one experience with vibration causing electronic avionics to fail. While it may not be common, it can and does happen.
 
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