HURMANAV8R
Active Member
Building my baby and ready to start skinning the tail, whats the advice here, countersink or dimple. Just asking for input and advice.
Van's Air Force
Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.
Dimple or countersink?
- Thread starter HURMANAV8R
- Start date
Don
Well Known Member
Rivethead is right but you could just read the first part of the manual Van's ships with the kits and save the cost of a class. The BA classes are fine but they sure are not necessary, particularly if you're inclined to read for understanding. The manual covers your question and a whole lot more. If however, you're the kind of person who would rather follow directions and not think, take the builders class. It might save your life.
Take your time and fight the urge to rush. Learn the techniques before you try them out on plane parts. For the most part we all started off wanting to finish in record time or within some time frame. Almost everyone figures out quickly that rushing means doing the job over sooner or later and that is a LOT slower than figuring it out and doing it right from the start (and even then you won't always get it right - today I made 3 fuel lines to get two that met my standards).
Enough preaching. Generally you dimple up to and including 0.032 sheet aluminum. Thicker than than you'll counter sink. Practice counter sinking - it is harder than it looks to get precisely countersunk holes. Find some scrap (or buy some hardware store aluminum angle) and practice.
HURMANAV8R
Active Member
thank you
Thank you or your input, the reason I was asking was in the military we were not exposed to dimpling, even as a part time metal bender, in my unit we cross trained to help with every job. If a panel needed replacment or even worse was damaged we all learned to countersink.
I figured on dimpling as much as possible but just thought I would ask, wondring if there was a secret out there I was unaware of.
Trust me all, everything possible will be dimpled!
Thank you or your input, the reason I was asking was in the military we were not exposed to dimpling, even as a part time metal bender, in my unit we cross trained to help with every job. If a panel needed replacment or even worse was damaged we all learned to countersink.
I figured on dimpling as much as possible but just thought I would ask, wondring if there was a secret out there I was unaware of.
Trust me all, everything possible will be dimpled!
There is the right way to dimple too.
There have been many threads on dimpling as well.
The perfect dimple is done using a C-frame dimple tool-like the kind you get from Avery or Cleaveland.
However, you don't just put your dimple dies in and start pounding.
I have a dimpling table set up where the C-frame is inset into the table and the male part of the die is just barely above the level of the table. THe table is covered with tight weave carpet so you don't scratch the skins while moving them around.
Next you want to support the bottom part of the C-frame/rivet set with a steel rod that goes down to the floor. I have a hole in my bench that my steel rod goes down to the floor and a shim and metal foot to accept the steel rod. The rod that goes down into the foot it slightly chamferred so it sits a recessed hole in the metal foot plate so it cannot walk around. This braces the rivet set so that when you put the two dies together and hit it with the dead blow hammer, there is no give in the C-frame/rivet set. All the impact goes to directly into the skin/dies. There is no flexing. You should see a small circle (same diameter as the die set) lightly imprinted on skin where the dies mated to the skins perfectly.
This the best way to dimple skins up to .040. The next best is using the rivet squeezer, however, this will pull the skin down slightly when you bring the two dies together. You can see a small indentation around the whole rivet area when compared to a dimple set with a C-frame/dead blow hammer. The hammer is so much faster and clean when setting the dies to the skin.
My Dad tried to counter sink the rivets on the horizontal stab and he has rivet heads sticking up all over the place. Then you have to shave them and that can get tricky.
There have been many threads on dimpling as well.
The perfect dimple is done using a C-frame dimple tool-like the kind you get from Avery or Cleaveland.
However, you don't just put your dimple dies in and start pounding.
I have a dimpling table set up where the C-frame is inset into the table and the male part of the die is just barely above the level of the table. THe table is covered with tight weave carpet so you don't scratch the skins while moving them around.
Next you want to support the bottom part of the C-frame/rivet set with a steel rod that goes down to the floor. I have a hole in my bench that my steel rod goes down to the floor and a shim and metal foot to accept the steel rod. The rod that goes down into the foot it slightly chamferred so it sits a recessed hole in the metal foot plate so it cannot walk around. This braces the rivet set so that when you put the two dies together and hit it with the dead blow hammer, there is no give in the C-frame/rivet set. All the impact goes to directly into the skin/dies. There is no flexing. You should see a small circle (same diameter as the die set) lightly imprinted on skin where the dies mated to the skins perfectly.
This the best way to dimple skins up to .040. The next best is using the rivet squeezer, however, this will pull the skin down slightly when you bring the two dies together. You can see a small indentation around the whole rivet area when compared to a dimple set with a C-frame/dead blow hammer. The hammer is so much faster and clean when setting the dies to the skin.
My Dad tried to counter sink the rivets on the horizontal stab and he has rivet heads sticking up all over the place. Then you have to shave them and that can get tricky.
HURMANAV8R
Active Member
Thanks for the advise everyone, I had mad a table when building out my shop so that was already there, I have dimpled the first skin and started to rivet, so thanks again!
