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Drdt?

M

mdredmond

Well Known Member
Hi all,

Just got off the phone with Cleaveland. When I asked about the DRDT, the guy I was talking to (Mike) said they don't sell it because they don't recommend using it. He said that while it's quiet, it doesn't leave your skin as flat as a C-Frame and he also said the dimples would be uneven due to flexing of the arm.

This is all directly contrary to what I hear people saying 'round here.

Can anyone clarify?

TIA!

-matt
 
While I like Cleaveland's stuff, that's silly and probably just a reflection of the fact that they haven't reached an agreement with Paul Merems to sell it. The DRDT leaves absolutely consistent dimples and my rivets sit uniformly flush! No question, get it.
 
I just did the top main wing skin with my own copy of a DRDT dimpler and I don't see a problem. The arm will flex exactly the same every time. I do know from experience that a C frame will make better dimples than a pneumatic dimpler because you can't keep the tool perfectly perpendicular to the skin surface every time. The DRDT doesn't have that problem. Once the plane is painted I don't think you would be able to tell which method you used. Boy is it quieter and quicker than a C frame. I don't think you will be disappointed at all. My own 2 cents worth is that it is a worthwhile tool.
 
Hog Wash

Let's see, pulling down a handle exactly the same way each time or beating a rod with a hammer at varying angles and forces. Which one do you think produces the most consistent dimples?
 
Drdt

Matt,

I bought the front end kit and made mine up. You would not go wrong getting one. It is very consistent on the dimples and very easy compared to the C frame dimpler. Also no noise. Comparing the dimples to the c frame, I haven't noticed any problem with the DRDT dimples at all. The flexing of the arm (meaning the lever, I have not noticed any flex in the frame) is the mechanical advantage which is what makes it so slick, works the same every time.



Take care,
 
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Hogwash is right. Scroll down about 1/2 way. My dimples and skins looks just fine to me and with no exargeration I dimpled each and every skin, by myself, with no help, and no one skin took me longer than 15 minutes (and I think that's being generous....it was probably much closer to 10 minutes....about 5 seconds per hole once you find a rhythm).

http://www.ballofshame.com/flying/rv-7/buildLog/20060115.php

Happy dimpling :)
 
I only briefly used a C-frame, but I can't say enough good things about the DRDT. It's pricey, and you can't rivet with it. But what it does, it does very well. The skins do tend to curl, but I don't have enough experience with the C-frame to know if there is any difference between the two.

Tom Costanza
RV-7A Fuse
 
DRDT-2 Performance

mdredmond said:
Hi all,

Just got off the phone with Cleaveland. When I asked about the DRDT, the guy I was talking to (Mike) said they don't sell it because they don't recommend using it. He said that while it's quiet, it doesn't leave your skin as flat as a C-Frame and he also said the dimples would be uneven due to flexing of the arm.

This is all directly contrary to what I hear people saying 'round here.

Can anyone clarify?

TIA!

-matt
Click to expand...

I find Mike?s Lauritsen?s (Cleaveland Tools) comments rather interesting. Please take note. I demonstrated the DRDT-1 (the first generation of the dimpling tool-The DRDT-2 is the current version) at the Copperstate Fly-in in 2003. Present at the demonstration Scott McDanials (Van's Aircraft), Fred (Clear Air Tools) and DJ (Cleaveland Tools). All were impressed with the ease of dimpling and the finished dimple quality. All dimples were carefully inspected by all of the experienced professionals. :)

Here is Mike?s Lauritsen?s (Cleaveland tools) response concerning the DRDT-1 in an email he sent me a week or so after the Copperstate Fly-in.

?I had kind of discounted the DRDT-1, as others have tried similar ideas. DJ seemed to be impressed (other than shipping weight) and that is saying something. She is quite a perfectionist. I will recommend it for anyone looking for a quiet solution. We have a 1.5" thick 20" reach squeezer yoke and the deflection from it makes it unusable.?

To my knowledge Mike hasn?t tried the DRDT-1 or DRDT-2 and is making a statement based on ?others who tried similar ideas.? :(

I strive to produce the highest quality tool for my customers. The tool has been thoroughly engineered and tested (even abused) before it ever was offered for sale. Effects of dimple die misalignment, beam deflection, twist, bearing life are just some of the areas tested. I stand behind the DRDT-2 performance. That is why I have 3 major US aircraft tool suppliers also offering the tool to their customers (Cleaveland Tools isn't one of them.)

Over the last 22 years since I have been involved in building homebuilt aircraft (specifically RV?s), no individual or company has made an improvement to the impact c-frame dimpler that has made it to the homebuilt market. That was until the DRDT-2 was introduced about 2 years ago. DRDT-2?s are in use in builder assistance workshops and aircraft repair facilities across the country. Several DRDT-2?s have been put into service in an aircraft factory in Europe and numerous DRDT-2?s are in builders shops throughout the world helping them build their dream. :)
 
Drdt-2

We recently went to Alexander Tech center to build the tail of our 9a. We are ordering the DRDT-2 after learning to use their DRDT-1 there. They also had one of those things that you hit with a hammer to make dimples, but we didn't get a chance to see it demonstrated.
 
Hey Matt--

I ordered the front end kit and built mine. I'm at 121/Hebron Pkwy--NW Carrollton/Lewisville--if you want to take a look at my completed Emp, and soon some wing skins. As long as you don't laugh at my welds on the DRDT2!

I don't even own a C-frame; but am completely happy with my dimpling results thus far. Totally agree with John...couple of little bench top tables on either side of the machine, and it's a one man & one handed operation.

Joe
 
mdredmond said:
Hi all,

Just got off the phone with Cleaveland. When I asked about the DRDT, the guy I was talking to (Mike) said they don't sell it because they don't recommend using it. He said that while it's quiet, it doesn't leave your skin as flat as a C-Frame and he also said the dimples would be uneven due to flexing of the arm.

This is all directly contrary to what I hear people saying 'round here.

Can anyone clarify?

TIA!

-matt
Click to expand...

I'm a novice builder and bought the DRDT2. I've used the hammer C frame dimpler in the Sport Air Workshop. I can say with confidence the DRDT2 is rock solid ridged. "Flexing of the arm" is non-existant. So far I've completed the HS VS and Rudder. I place the male die in the upper moving slide and gently drop it into the hole in the skin. With a carpeted platform leveled to the same height of the top of the lower die I can slide the skin from hole to hole with one hand and pull the dimpling lever with the other. IMO I can say this is far faster, less damage prone method and it seems I can actually get deeper into folded skins (like leading edges of HS and VS). A couple of the most forward holes still need to be dimpled by other methods.

Now there is one other consideration. It is much more manly to bang on stuff and make noise with hammers. If you are like me and enjoy this then the DRDT2 may not be for you ;)
 
DRDT Use... Do it!

Myself and 2 partners are building an RV-7A and completed our empennage kit in 3.5 days at Alexander Technical Center in Griffin, GA... a great confidence builder and a wonderful place to start!
While there, we were introduced to many different tools and processes. One of the tools we used was the DRDT for all of our dimpling. It is a supurb tool, quiet, consistent in performance, and quicker than most other methods.
When we got home, we placed an order for a DRDT, along with a modified RV tool kit, from Shaun Isham at www.planetools.com or email at [email protected] and couldn't be happier. You won't be disappointed!
Get one!

Tom Paradis
 
I bought a DRDT-2 direct from Paul Merems. The guy was very nice and helpful. That said, the tool is easy to use and extremely consistent. I dimpled the HS-801 skins by myself in about 15 minutes each. I used the c frame dimpler during the EAA RV builder class and told myself there has to be a better way to do this. The next day one of the guys in the class was nice enough to bring his and let everyone use it. Have not looked back yet. I'll keep mine. My guess is that the guy from Cleveland is :mad: that he did not come up with the idea.
 
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I dimpled all my wing and fuselage skins with the DRDT-2. I have not seen any flexing of the arm at all and the dimples are consistant throughout. I expect that you might get a *very* slightly better dimple from the c-frame since the spring-back dies are designed for a single hard impact, but I don't think anyone would be able to tell the difference in reality. The noise of the c-frame was never an issue for me, but I found that I could dimple much faster with the DRDT-2 than with the c-frame since I could move the skin with one hand and pull the lever with the other. I mounted a small laser pointer on the arm that points at the center of the die to help guide the hole to the die. The only complaint I had about the DRDT-2 was that the return spring was too weak and it was possible to release the arm and the die would drop and could punch a hole where it wasn't wanted. I believe I have one of the first units so this has probably been fixed. The tool is great and Paul Merems is a good guy.
 
jferraro16 said:
Hey Matt--I ordered the front end kit and built mine. I'm at 121/Hebron Pkwy--NW Carrollton/Lewisville--if you want to take a look at my completed Emp, and soon some wing skins. As long as you don't laugh at my welds on the DRDT2! Joe
Click to expand...

Joe, I'll take you up on that soon. I'm in Denton - used to live at Hebron/MacArthur - stone's throw from you.

I won't laugh at your welds but might try to enlist your help in welding a smoker together :D My wife bought me this ingenious smoke generator that takes wood pellets of all flavors. But now I need a smoker to put it on.
 
-2

I took delivery of a -2 a few weeks ago (from Paul)...played with it a bit and find it to be VERY rigid. It should be a blast to use. You know one thing I've noticed is that because (I assume) the drdt-2 is new(ish) we don't see many offered for sale in the used market. I'm sure that when that time comes there won't be much depriciation fom the retail dollar. :)
 
A little bit of flex...

The arm on my DRDT-2 flexes just a little - or so it seems. It might just be an optical delusion. I set mine up so the dies contact each other with no AL between them, but not under pressure - just touching.
I bought mine from Paul in March of '04 - almost two years before I started building! I got it mostly on faith, since very few were in use at the time and the one in Van's prototype shop was still in the box on the shelf.
In November '04 I lent it to a guy working on an -8A, and he loved it! I started building in Jan '06, and I love it too - it does a beautiful job. I've never used a C-frame, and since I won't be setting 3/16ths rivets, I don't expect I ever will.
I also get nice dimples from my pneumatic squeezer. I've always adjusted the dies the same way as I do for the DRDT, and gone by the instructions that came with the adjustable set: apply full pressure quickly/"SLAP" the the throttle full open.
I haven't tried it, but I think that would work as well as banging a C-frame with a hammer. As Paul says, DON'T dimple heavy stuff like nutplates with the DRDT! It's not made for real heavy stuff or riveting...
 
"flex"

Matt and all,

I edited my original reply as I inadvertantly referred to Matt as Mike, sorry, I misread the signature and saw Texas and immediately thought of Mike (Reddick).

Anyway the flex I was referring to is not the frame itself flexing but is the little oomph at the end of the lever throw which gives you the mechanical advantage with the DRDT2. This is very consistent and works the same every time, consistent dimples. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.
 
Anyway the flex I was referring to is not the frame itself flexing but is the little oomph at the end of the lever throw which gives you the mechanical advantage with the DRDT2. This is very consistent and works the same every time, consistent dimples. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

Yeah, what Jim said - that's what mine does.
 
possible to dimple too much with the DRDT-2

Hi, I've just started my tail kit, and I'm wondering If I'm dimpling too hard? Is there really a fool proof way to determine how much a skin dimple is too much?

oh,, btw,, I love this thing too.

thanks

Mike
 
No Way

skidmk said:
Hi, I've just started my tail kit, and I'm wondering If I'm dimpling too hard? Is there really a fool proof way to determine how much a skin dimple is too much?
Click to expand...

Mike I really don't see any way that you can over dimple with this tool. Once the dies mate, they ain't goin' no further. Unless you are going to compress the aluminum between them which I suspect would take a tremendous amount of pressure to do if at all possible.

Adjust the tool so the dies just barely mate when the handle is in the full down position and then go for it. You will get a great looking dimple each time.

If your concern is about little surface marks around the outside of the dimple, don't worry about it, that is normal and you will get them no matter which tool you use.
 
Whew!!

:D

well,, I scuffed the VS and applied some primer where the rivets are... and it would appear, I've not dimpled too deep and it was an optical illusion with the light in the shop and the aluminum. (I hope) I'll take the vs out to a bunch of RV guys on the weekend,,, and get their opinion.. but it looks okay to me know.

thanks again... man you can really work up a sweat thinkin about replacing parts

:)

Mike
 
The DRDT-2 can not overdimple your parts

Gents,

Just for the record, the DRDT-2 can not over-dimple your parts. The DRDT-2 allows you to dimple consistantly, safely, quietly, easily........

If you have any questions just post them and I would be glad to answer them.
 
The dimple is done by the dies. Period. Maxium dimple size/depth is a funtion of the die set.

Tne DRDT, or whatever you use only operates the dies, and about the only thing that can go wrong is to under squeeze the dies, and create an undersize dimple.

Bent sheet metal around the die is a common problem, caused by not supporting the sheet properly, as in "C" frame style units, or not holding the squeezer steady when doing a dimple by hand.

I have a second hand DRDT, and found the fixed die needed to be raised by a wahser (to just under the table level) to prevent damage around the outside of the die, as mentioned above.

Good tool, well made, I highly recomend it.

Mike
 
Drdt

Having visited Paul's shop in Tucson and gotten to know the man, HE is first rate and so is his product. You can usually tell the quality of the product by looking at a manufacturer's shop. You could eat off the floor where Merem does his work.

The thing weighs a ton cause the arms are strong enough to hold up a house. That's good cause deflection is non existent.

Barry
 
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