What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Diesels and High Time Eggs

I'm in the waaaaay preliminary planning stages for an RV10 or -7a build. I haven't yet decided how many friends I want to take with me, or more to the point, whether it's worth the extra 30 grand to bring them along. :eek: But as a faithful motorhead I headed straight for the engine section here and spent a couple hours looking around. So now I'm wondering:

1) Are there any diesels flying on an RV yet? It seems to me a diesel has the perfect operating parameters for an aircraft; steady state running, better tolerance to higher power settings over time (especially with turbos), and a longer service life as compared to gas engines. I understand those positives are offset by heavier engines and fuel flow problems in colder temps. But I'm curious about the possibilities here.

2) What would be the highest time Subaru engine on an RV that anyone knows of?

I don't have anything against Lycoming, in fact I'm thoroughly enjoying the O360 in my Archer trainer (first cross country last week!) I'm just getting a feel for what else is out there. I don't want to reinvent any wheels, and I'm not an engineer either, but the jump in the price to get to the 540 on the RV 10 made me choke.

Thanks,
Carey

0 time in an RV
0 time building airplanes
1 ever-growing RV bank account
 
The highest time Eggenfellner Subaru I know of is Charlie Walker's, in a Glastar. Last time I recall him reporting his time it was over 700 hours.
 
Certification requires total of 300 hours on same engine run under the watch of FAA or European counterpart.

Thielert claims almost 1000 engines flying, although no info on highest hours as of yet. So far it appears reliable. It's heavy though.

Deltahawk has been flying their Velocity for several years albeit with various states of refinements being the main test bed. The have test engines to several hundred hours. Several beta customers also have engines for various installations.

SMA has flown a Maule and a Cessna but no info on flight hours that I'm aware of. SMA is certified.
 
alternatives

there are some auto diesels in europe that would be ideal for conversion but there is also this :

which I took the liberty to snip a couple of comments from their website:

http://www.centurion-engines.com/

<snip>
The CENTURION 1.7 engine is certified for the use of both jet fuel and automotive diesel.

<snip>

<snip>

Indeed the combination of these types of aircraft with CENTURION engines is most attractive and one project that we will work on later on in 2006. The development of installations for kit and experimental airplanes will be arranged with all major kit airplane OEMs. Our engines show a higher complexity than what you find with conventional engines. To cover this deliberately as well as the different electrical system arrangements the installations will be developed according to regulations and procedures as you find in certified aircraft. This means for the installer that a most reliable system and safest operation is ensured. However, distribution of engines and installation kit will be arranged exclusively through our distribution partners and OEMs. Please contact the appropriate airframe kitplane manufacturers also directly for any available information. For further information please visit the different sections on our website and check in at the contact page so that we are able to provide you with regular e-mail newsletters.
<snip>

There is also another current thread on Deltahawk

cheers,

John
 
Diesel, the only alternative!

Do not forget "Wilksch WAM120 and WAM160!. (120 bhp and 160 bhp Diesel engines). They are currently testing these engines on RV9's. I saw a WAM120 (flying) at the PFA-ralley in Kemble (UK) last year. Mind you, it sounds like a truck, it smokes like a truck and it uses diesel, just like a truck. But.......with the current prices of Avgas in Europe at appr. EUR 2,-/lt ($ 9,-/gal.) and diesel (for heating) or Jet-A1 only at EUR 0,60/lt ($ 2,75/gal.) and less fuel consumption than Avgas (appr. 15% ??) this makes a huge saving, over time!!!!!. Anybody stating that the diesels ar heavy, does not know what a conventional Yanky-engine weighs! The 135 bhp Centurion-diesel is actually a lot lighter than the 160 bhp Lycoming, but, due to the very high (diesel) torque, gets the plane to the same speed an climb and that with less fuel. The 160 bhp Wilksch is approx. 8 kg heavier than the 160 bhp Lycoming, but needs a lot less fuel to go the same distance! So the 8 kg penalty will be saved in fuel-weight, easely.


I am definately going for Diesel in my RV9A. Not only will I save ca. $ 85.000,- on fuel over 2000 hrs., but also pay les for maintenance (no spark plugs!), have more power and speed at altitude (turbo + compressor), have single lever controls (no mixture), have no problem with icing (no carb.), have longer range (less fuel consumption), no shock cooling when going down fast (liquid cooling), be able to get fuel all around the world and also in the future, when 100LL Avgas will have disapeered long time!

Emagine you want to sell your plane in ten- or so years, when 100LL Avgas is no longer available, what do you think the value of your plane will be? (aluminium-scrap value!?) :eek:

It is realy a shame that the Zoche-diesel engines are not coming on the market. The only reason why they do not come on the market with their engine, I can think of, is that they get payed by the regular engine manufacturers (Lycoming, Continental, etc.) to stay devoloping for a certain amount of years and off the market, because otherwise the oposition would go broke, lickidy-split! But.......... in the meantime, we are keeping our planes in the air with leaded-fuel consuming, pre-war, technique.


I will go for "Wilksch" or "Centurion" !!


I am currently finishing my left "extended range" tank. The right one has been tested to satisfaction. The total and checked capacity is: 204 lt. (54 gal.). With a diesel engine this will give me a range of minimum 1.200 Nm. at economy cruise. Try that with an "Avgas engine" This gives me the capabillity to "fly there and back", without having to refuel, or go realy far!

Regards, Tonny
 
Pilottonny said:
Do not forget "Wilksch WAM120 and WAM160!. (120 bhp and 160 bhp Diesel engines). They are currently testing these engines on RV9's. I saw a WAM120 (flying) at the PFA-ralley in Kemble (UK) last year. Mind you, it sounds like a truck, it smokes like a truck and it uses diesel, just like a truck. But.......with the current prices of Avgas in Europe at appr. EUR 2,-/lt ($ 9,-/gal.) and diesel (for heating) or Jet-A1 only at EUR 0,60/lt ($ 2,75/gal.) and less fuel consumption than Avgas (appr. 15% ??) this makes a huge saving, over time!!!!!. Anybody stating that the diesels ar heavy, does not know what a conventional Yanky-engine weighs! The 135 bhp Centurion-diesel is actually a lot lighter than the 160 bhp Lycoming, but, due to the very high (diesel) torque, gets the plane to the same speed an climb and that with less fuel. The 160 bhp Wilksch is approx. 8 kg heavier than the 160 bhp Lycoming, but needs a lot less fuel to go the same distance! So the 8 kg penalty will be saved in fuel-weight, easely.


I am definately going for Diesel in my RV9A. Not only will I save ca. $ 85.000,- on fuel over 2000 hrs., but also pay les for maintenance (no spark plugs!), have more power and speed at altitude (turbo + compressor), have single lever controls (no mixture), have no problem with icing (no carb.), have longer range (less fuel consumption), no shock cooling when going down fast (liquid cooling), be able to get fuel all around the world and also in the future, when 100LL Avgas will have disapeered long time!

Emagine you want to sell your plane in ten- or so years, when 100LL Avgas is no longer available, what do you think the value of your plane will be? (aluminium-scrap value!?) :eek:

Dreaming. There will be an alternative for the thousands of other airplanes flying out there that don't have diesels on them. Therhart looks good, SMA not so much so because of the weight. Still a low compression lycoming like the IO-390 looks best for the Americas still...
 
osxuser said:
[/font]
Dreaming. There will be an alternative for the thousands of other airplanes flying out there that don't have diesels on them. Therhart looks good, SMA not so much so because of the weight. Still a low compression lycoming like the IO-390 looks best for the Americas still...
This is too true. Gas engines won't go away just because 100LL is gone. Don't think that there won't be UNLEADED AVgas. There are many alternatives. The Mistral rotary guys are working on a spark ignited Jet A burning wankel. The rotary is tolerant of a wide range of fuels; as are the low-compression Lyc's. Gas engines will be around for a long while yet. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like a great light-weight diesel for my plane. As a true motorhead I'm interested in engines in general. Just don't think that other gasoline alternatives (including ethanol) won't be around.

Rotary10-RV
Bill Jepson
 
Back
Top