LASAR problems

This is a longshot - does anyone have a LASAR timing box in the Fort Myers, FL area? The FBO here has one, but he isn't available until Monday morning, and I'd like to leave Sunday.

BTW, this is the third failure of the left mag in 740 hours. The first one was around 300 hours, and was some strange internal failure. The second failure was around 150 hours ago, and it was a broken rotor. The failure of a couple days ago appears to be the same, no rotation when feeling for the pin hole in back while rotating the input shaft.

I can't say enough good about Aerosport Power for getting a new replacement out to me (Unison is out of stock, unbelievable).

612-418-9710 if anyone can help.

Sorry

I would ship mine to you but there is no wayt to get it before Monday good luck in that area. The box weighs very little so I guess I should consider adding it to my trip tools. Your experience suggests a ~300 hour MTBF on the left mag (the critical one) and I'm coming up on 200 hours now so your message is a good "heads up". Unison being out of stock is not a good sign but it may be a Sun 'n' Fun effect. Two years ago the Unison tech rep was at Sun 'n' fun for the company, I didn't check last year. He was a very conscientious guy. If he is this there a rental car and some coordination may solve your problem. I tend to go to extremes sometimes when it comes to getting back in the air so this may not be practical. Good luck.

Bob Axsom

Bob, thanks for the thoughts. I did connect with the FBO guy tonight, and everything is in running order.

I'm not impressed with the Lasar system. This failure mode is mechanical, and it causes the rotor inside the left mag to not turn when the gear is turned. The in flight effect is a fractional second power loss, before the right mag kicks in. The controller probably thinks the engine has been shut down, as it no longer sees the sensor mag (left one) turning. Good luck to anyone with the system. Mine is coming out ASAP when I'm back home.

A local guy here in my EAA chapter reported similar problems. Note to self: no lasar ever. One conventional mag (or a pmag) + one of the non certified electronic ignition folks sounds like the way to go.

I had the LASAR on an XP-0-360, 5 mags and 3 different controllers in 150 hours. I finally pulled the whole thing out and Superior sent me a set of standard mags. I really haven't seen a difference in the way it runs, except that it runs. If anyone needs a LASAR timer, I have one for sale.

Steve Adams

LASAR=liability

I've had nothing but problems with the LASAR system on my Mooney. Needed a new controller. 30 day lead time. Needed new mags at overhaul, 5 weeks. And, these things aren't cheap!

The other problem, since it is a certified plane, is that most mechanics have no idea what they are and you pay for someone to figure it out, screw it up, and repeat mistakes.

To their credit, the Unison support is good, but it doesn't make up for the hassle.

No way I am putting this in the RV. It is a liability.

Good luck.

Initial Timing Problem due to Lycoming

Initial problems can exist because of the lack of knowledge of whoever sets the timing on the LASAR system. Lycoming's lack of knowledge of the LASAR timing process caused significant burn damage to my cowl (set at 85 degrees BTDC instead of 25). I bought the LASAR timing box from Van's (not cheap - over $300 as I recall) and learned the timing process myself and have had no more problems.

The performance seems very good and I believe I can detect a difference when the LASAR system reverts to the backup standard mag function. My fuel burn rate is at least 1 gal/hr less with the LASAR fired Lycoming O-360-A1A in my RV-6A than my standard mag equiped O-360-A4M was for 22 years in my Archer II (several different physical engines). So in general I am happy with the LASAR ignition system.

However, I am concerned about the sensor mag 300 hour mean time between failure rate that Alex experienced and I do not like the inability to hand prop in an emergency - I have gotten home too many times because I could hand prop my engine to think of it as a trivial option.

Bob Axsom

My tale of whoa

A friend just sent me this thread on Laser ignitions and feel I must add my thoughts also.

I was returning from Florida and SnF on Sunday. I landed (which is another story in and of it self!) at CPC (Columbus County, NC ...really cheap fuel!) and when I did my run up prior to departure I had a dead left mag. Mind you, ATC had me about 20 mi. off shore of FL and GA coasts an hour before this happened. This wasn't a burble or just a slight loss of rpm, this was outright failure. To make a long story short, an APIA came out and pulled the mag thinking the points had just closed up on it. To our surprise, when the cap came off, the wire from the coil(?) that was connected to the circuit board burned off the board and the whole board looked semi charred. Tons of carbon dust inside also.

I stayed overnight and started to call around to find a replacement. Ha-ha, the best I could find was Ramaircraft that said they could get one to me in three weeks!.

I called Unison's piston engine help line and just got recordings. I finally just kept calling numbers there until I got a live person. This went on through several people and finally got connected to "Steve" at Snf! I pleaded my case to him and he asked to call me back in a few minutes. Surprise, surprise, he actually did call me back with the news that there was a mag in the Rockford IL. warehouse and they would overnight it to me. I thought, great. I'll be able to get home on Tuesday.....not!. It seems that UPS has different ideas as to what constitutes overnight when shipping to Whiteville, NC. Red tag stuff doesn't have to arrive by 10:00am. Nooooooo, it can come anytime of the day, that being 4:30pm on Tuesday. Fortunately the people who manage the airport for the county (Phil & Mary) and a local APIA, Toby, were so gracious and understanding. They made arragements at the hotel and drove me around on mutiple occasions all with a smile. There was a lot more to the story but for the sake of brevity all I will say is that I finally got out of NC at 8:00am this morning and home by 10:45 (good tailwind at Norfolk!)

I am now trying to decide how to handle this. I had to pay $600. for the mag but Unison picked up the shipping. My engine only had 200 hrs on it and from the sound of others complaints, this is likely to happen again in another 200 or so hours. I am going to try to get Unison to pickup the cost on the mag (wish me luck, yeah right!) and incidentals. Even if they do, I too, think I am going to chuck this whole system and go with regular Slicks sans the laser system. How can you travel anywhere with reliability as crappy as this? Anyone want to buy a Laser system cheap?

Jody

RV8- IO360A1B6

Spare parts club?

I'm half wondering if those of us stuck with this system for now should chip in and buy a mag to have on standby!

I don't see how they can not keep inventory of spares if they have such low reliability.

FWIW, I have a buzz box, computer interface cable, and spare thermocouple if anyone gets stuck and I can help. Just email.

Jody, even though the Lasar system has been problematic for me, Unison has always come through and paid for the replacement. Steve Carter, who I talked to a week ago today (when he was at SnF, and no one answered the phones at the help desk), told me that if there was something defective in the mag that they would replace it. I'll update this forum as this progresses.

Steve, how much for the Laser timing box?

Timing Box

Had LASAR on my Arrow for some 900Hrs. Never experienced a problen except for gouging the temperature probe (about 600hrs, my fault). Before selling it,I tried mogas, and the results were astounding. The new owner has logged more than 250 hrs. My RV10 will be LASAR equiped.
T88