lorne green
Well Known Member
So, I'm going the QB route (7a)fuse and wings. Am I wasting my cash on a pneumatic squeezer? Or should I save my coin for other toys?
Van's Air Force
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more squeezer questions
- Thread starter lorne green
- Start date
I haven't built yet, but from what I can see from Van's description of the QB, the pneumatic will be useless on the QB wings. I dunno about fuselage.
I were you, I'd try to pick up a used one at most and then ditch it on ebay when you're done. From what I've seen, they can be had for $200-$300 on ebay and then resold with little loss.
I were you, I'd try to pick up a used one at most and then ditch it on ebay when you're done. From what I've seen, they can be had for $200-$300 on ebay and then resold with little loss.
Save your money
I have a hand squeezer which I found almost indispensible but I would not use a pneumatic squeezer. The quiet operation and direct personal touch during the squeeze are important. If you have a physical deficiency or have a production application then the aid would be important.
Bob Axsom
I have a hand squeezer which I found almost indispensible but I would not use a pneumatic squeezer. The quiet operation and direct personal touch during the squeeze are important. If you have a physical deficiency or have a production application then the aid would be important.
Bob Axsom
Another Opinion....
The problem with my opinion is that I have never used a hand squeezer, so I can only give you one point of view, and that is from the pneumatic side. My squeezer is my absolute most favorite tool - I use it for all sorts of stuff, and consider it money well spent. Yes, I did a QB, and yes, I got mine used, so it cost me a lot less than if I bought a new one, but I personally wouldn't want to build without one if I had a choice.
Believe me, even with a QB, you going to drive a couple of rivets or two - and do a tad bit of dimpling. Not to mention nut plates!
I guess I haven't personally heard from anyone who bought both, and then said that their pneumatic just sat in the drawer unused...but many fine folks have built many great airplanes without them!
Paul
The problem with my opinion is that I have never used a hand squeezer, so I can only give you one point of view, and that is from the pneumatic side. My squeezer is my absolute most favorite tool - I use it for all sorts of stuff, and consider it money well spent. Yes, I did a QB, and yes, I got mine used, so it cost me a lot less than if I bought a new one, but I personally wouldn't want to build without one if I had a choice.
Believe me, even with a QB, you going to drive a couple of rivets or two - and do a tad bit of dimpling. Not to mention nut plates!
I guess I haven't personally heard from anyone who bought both, and then said that their pneumatic just sat in the drawer unused...but many fine folks have built many great airplanes without them!
Paul
When I started my -6 in '89, I bought a hand squeezer. I built two horizontal stab main spars (2 airplanes). After building those 2 spars, I bought a pneumatic squeezer and sent the hand squeezer back.
Between working on my bi-plane and making repairs on other planes I use the squeezer almost every day.
BTW, what's this "quick-build" thing I keep hearing about? You guys don't just get a box of sheet aluminum and angle like I did?
Mel...DAR
Between working on my bi-plane and making repairs on other planes I use the squeezer almost every day.
BTW, what's this "quick-build" thing I keep hearing about? You guys don't just get a box of sheet aluminum and angle like I did?
Mel...DAR
Squeezer
You will be using the squeezers a lot even with the quickbuild. I have both pneumatic and hand squeezers with 4 or 5 yokes that are interchangeable. Occasionally I find rivets that one squeezer can't get to but the other one can. I would buy both again! It can be really frustrating to me to put a lot of time in building a part or assembly and then not have the right tool to finish it just right.
Many airplanes have been built without the pneumatic and everyone has their opinion but I personally would not build without both squeezers and a full selection of yokes.
Andy
You will be using the squeezers a lot even with the quickbuild. I have both pneumatic and hand squeezers with 4 or 5 yokes that are interchangeable. Occasionally I find rivets that one squeezer can't get to but the other one can. I would buy both again! It can be really frustrating to me to put a lot of time in building a part or assembly and then not have the right tool to finish it just right.
Many airplanes have been built without the pneumatic and everyone has their opinion but I personally would not build without both squeezers and a full selection of yokes.
Andy
You can reach many more rivets that are squeezable with the armstrong than the pneumatic because the pneumatic is bulkier (and dragging the air hose around is a pain, too). You don't need to be as precise with the set gap on the armstrong because you can easily regulate stroke, therefore amount of upset, while squeezing; very handy, such as when setting a batch of 3.5s with an occasional 4 or 4.5 along the way. I sold my pneumatic after the 1st -7. Now, I have one big, bulked-up arm, like a hermit crab.
I would spend your money on a greater variety of bucking bars, particularly slim and pointy angled types for setting rivets no squeezer can reach.
John Siebold
I would spend your money on a greater variety of bucking bars, particularly slim and pointy angled types for setting rivets no squeezer can reach.
John Siebold
I'm building a 9 QB, The squeezer is worth every cent! It makes the job much more enjoyable. I didn't buy it at first, and ordered it later from Brown tools, the "special buy" advertisement in the left column of VAF. It's without a doubt my favorite tool! Make sure you order the adjustable setholder.
Mike Doyle
RV-9A QB
Mike Doyle
RV-9A QB
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lorne green
Well Known Member
squeezin'
Wow, thanks to all of you for your responses! Gee, I didn't think this thread would be as polorized as it is..........just like primer wars!
Wow, thanks to all of you for your responses! Gee, I didn't think this thread would be as polorized as it is..........just like primer wars!
wingtime
Well Known Member
I have three
I have three squeezers!
A Tatco with a 3" yoke, a main squeeze and a pnuematic with three yokes that interchange between the main squeeze and the pnuematic.
My favorites in order are the Tatco first, Main squeeze 2nd and the pneumatic third.
The Tatco is my favorite due to it's ease of use. I can manuver it and close it with one hand. This allows me to hold the parts with one hand while I start to squeeze with the other. Also due to it's thin size and 3" yoke I can get into tight spaces with it. I have some long flat dies that I sometime use in it to get to strange places. The only down side is setting #4 rivets takes a little more grunt and if you have more yokes they are tricky to change.
The Main squeeze from Cleaveland is nice. It's lightweight with a toggle type action that lowers the handle forces required to set a rivet. Also the fact that it uses the same quick change yokes as the pnuematic is handy. However the body is a thicker than the Tatco limiting places I can get into with it. The lower handle pressure is nice but it requires a longer throw of the handle, this means I can't use it one handed like the Tatco.
The pnuematic is my least fav squeezer. When I bought it I was like "man this thing is going to be great!" Well, it's great if I have a bunch of the same size rivets to set at the same time. Or it does a good job dimpling too. however if you have differn't length rivets to set you have to readjust the set. This just isn't the case with the hand units. If I'm squeezin say 3.5 length rivets and I have a few 4s its no big deal. I just don't close the handles as far. Kind of a "feel" thing. Also the darn thing weighs a TON and I find the trigger a bit cumbersome. Oh and it does a great job of making extra unwanted dimples complete with new hole if your not careful!
With this said there are times when I find myself using ALL three squeezers at a time. Using each one set up for a task it's best at. Having more than one type of squeezer is very handy. I don't see how someone could build using just a pnuematic it's just too limited in what it can do and the set up time takes too long. However if you decide on the pnuematic by all means get a hand squeezer that uses the same yokes!
Would I buy the pnuematic next time around? Nope! but thats just me.
Of course this is just my opinion I could be wrong.
I have three squeezers!
A Tatco with a 3" yoke, a main squeeze and a pnuematic with three yokes that interchange between the main squeeze and the pnuematic.
My favorites in order are the Tatco first, Main squeeze 2nd and the pneumatic third.
The Tatco is my favorite due to it's ease of use. I can manuver it and close it with one hand. This allows me to hold the parts with one hand while I start to squeeze with the other. Also due to it's thin size and 3" yoke I can get into tight spaces with it. I have some long flat dies that I sometime use in it to get to strange places. The only down side is setting #4 rivets takes a little more grunt and if you have more yokes they are tricky to change.
The Main squeeze from Cleaveland is nice. It's lightweight with a toggle type action that lowers the handle forces required to set a rivet. Also the fact that it uses the same quick change yokes as the pnuematic is handy. However the body is a thicker than the Tatco limiting places I can get into with it. The lower handle pressure is nice but it requires a longer throw of the handle, this means I can't use it one handed like the Tatco.
The pnuematic is my least fav squeezer. When I bought it I was like "man this thing is going to be great!" Well, it's great if I have a bunch of the same size rivets to set at the same time. Or it does a good job dimpling too. however if you have differn't length rivets to set you have to readjust the set. This just isn't the case with the hand units. If I'm squeezin say 3.5 length rivets and I have a few 4s its no big deal. I just don't close the handles as far. Kind of a "feel" thing. Also the darn thing weighs a TON and I find the trigger a bit cumbersome. Oh and it does a great job of making extra unwanted dimples complete with new hole if your not careful!
With this said there are times when I find myself using ALL three squeezers at a time. Using each one set up for a task it's best at. Having more than one type of squeezer is very handy. I don't see how someone could build using just a pnuematic it's just too limited in what it can do and the set up time takes too long. However if you decide on the pnuematic by all means get a hand squeezer that uses the same yokes!
Would I buy the pnuematic next time around? Nope! but thats just me.
Of course this is just my opinion I could be wrong.
wingtime said:
Bruce-
Yeah, it weighs quite a bit (4lbs plus yoke?) and you need to pay attention, especially to keep your fingers out of the way! To me though, it's not as unwieldy as the Avery hand squeezer.
When I first started, set up on the pneumatic (and hand, for that matter) took me a while, but now I can set up in under a minute with the adjustable set, dial calipers, knowing the thickness of the material and upset height (1/2 rivet shank dia.), and a sacrificial rivet or two. Quick and easy even when I only have a couple 1/8 inch rivets to set - like a rib to a spar.
As for limited, I assembled the entire rudder with a longeron and 4" no-hole yoke in the pneumatic with the minimum pop rivets (2) and no bucking / rivet gun in one medium length session. Except for the trailing edge (still need to pro-seal) and leading edge (still need to roll).
I've had no assistance on this kit yet (I'm holding out as long as I can) and my riveting/bucking is getting pretty decent. Pneumatic squeezing comes out great, and hand squeezing just isn't a happening thing. I tried it a few times, but without a third hand it drives me up a wall! Then I got quick at setting up the pneumatic and haven't attempted the hand squeezer since...
JoeG
Well Known Member
There is no substitute!
I'm sure many a craft has been built using only manual squeezers, I'm also sure I wouldn't want to build mine without a pneumatic squeezer. I have both; and although I am only half way through the empennage, I have only used the pneumatic thus far. (Although I did use the manual squeezer on my practice kit from Vans)
Since I am going the Slow Build route, I'm sure I'll be using it quite a bit more. The ONLY downside I can see in using a pneumatic squeezer, is that once you use it, you won't want to put it down. It is my favorite tool. Well worth the bucks in my opinion.
Oh... and by the way. Spend the extra 70 bucks and get the adjustable set. A few quick turns and you're ready to squeeze a different thickness. MUCH better than fiddling with a bunch of spacers...
I'm sure many a craft has been built using only manual squeezers, I'm also sure I wouldn't want to build mine without a pneumatic squeezer. I have both; and although I am only half way through the empennage, I have only used the pneumatic thus far. (Although I did use the manual squeezer on my practice kit from Vans)
Since I am going the Slow Build route, I'm sure I'll be using it quite a bit more. The ONLY downside I can see in using a pneumatic squeezer, is that once you use it, you won't want to put it down. It is my favorite tool. Well worth the bucks in my opinion.
Oh... and by the way. Spend the extra 70 bucks and get the adjustable set. A few quick turns and you're ready to squeeze a different thickness. MUCH better than fiddling with a bunch of spacers...
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lorne green
Well Known Member
squeezer
Well, I busted open my piggy bank and picked up a Brown pneumatic squeezer
(with a 3" and longeron yoke) with adjustable set as well as a bench mount. Along with a Cleavland foot valve which should make my life a little easier... we'll see!
Well, I busted open my piggy bank and picked up a Brown pneumatic squeezer
(with a 3" and longeron yoke) with adjustable set as well as a bench mount. Along with a Cleavland foot valve which should make my life a little easier... we'll see!
LettersFromFlyoverCountry
Well Known Member
I think the answer to this question is the same answer as with 90% of the questions in building a plane. If you've got the money, then, sure, why not buy a pneumatic squeezer? But you're the only one that can answer that question. Can you build an airplane without one? Of course. Is it convenient and helpful? Sure?
I don't have one and the airframe is almost done. But because that's my choice, isn't a good reason it should be anyone else's. When I first started building, one of the things I was going to save money on was not buying a Scotchbrite wheel (hey they're $50!). I was going to just sand everything by hand. That lasted a week as I realized the effort vs. the money saved wasn't going to be worth it in "enjoyment currency."
What you may want to consider is starting without one, and then see if it's something you want to add. Believe me, in the first year of building, most of the money isn't on airplane parts, it's on tools!
I don't have one and the airframe is almost done. But because that's my choice, isn't a good reason it should be anyone else's. When I first started building, one of the things I was going to save money on was not buying a Scotchbrite wheel (hey they're $50!). I was going to just sand everything by hand. That lasted a week as I realized the effort vs. the money saved wasn't going to be worth it in "enjoyment currency."
What you may want to consider is starting without one, and then see if it's something you want to add. Believe me, in the first year of building, most of the money isn't on airplane parts, it's on tools!
I built a slow build RV6 without a pneumatic squeezer and a QB RV8 with a pneumatic squeezer. For me, there are three items that I wouldn't be without....the pneumatic squeezer, the scotchbrite wheel and a 90 degree drill.
You'd be surprised how often you can use the squeezer and the rivets come out much better than with a hand squeezer, at least for me. There are literally hundreds of rivets you can get to....here are a few.....firewall flange, all the rivets on the cowling hinges, all the edges on the empennage, (practically all of them on the elevators and rudder) the nut plates on the wheel pants, gear leg fairings and wing roots and on the wing tips if you put on screws and nutplates. Literally all of the rivets on the baffling can be squeezed....there are many more, especially on any small part you work on. You can get by with a couple of yokes....a 2 1/2 or 3 " regular and a 3" no hole yoke get almost everything. (Yokes make great Christmas or birthday presents, if you give the right hints.)
Oh, I almost forgot...they dimple, too!!!!!
You'd be surprised how often you can use the squeezer and the rivets come out much better than with a hand squeezer, at least for me. There are literally hundreds of rivets you can get to....here are a few.....firewall flange, all the rivets on the cowling hinges, all the edges on the empennage, (practically all of them on the elevators and rudder) the nut plates on the wheel pants, gear leg fairings and wing roots and on the wing tips if you put on screws and nutplates. Literally all of the rivets on the baffling can be squeezed....there are many more, especially on any small part you work on. You can get by with a couple of yokes....a 2 1/2 or 3 " regular and a 3" no hole yoke get almost everything. (Yokes make great Christmas or birthday presents, if you give the right hints.)
Oh, I almost forgot...they dimple, too!!!!!
captainron
Well Known Member
Pnuematic squeezer weight and bulk.
You might want to Google "tool balancers" Many are inexpensive, you might find use for at least a couple of them (air drill, etc.).
No assembly line would be without them!
You might want to Google "tool balancers" Many are inexpensive, you might find use for at least a couple of them (air drill, etc.).
No assembly line would be without them!
hevansrv7a
Well Known Member
Also other tools
I built a QB -7A - almost done. I would get a pneumatic (single sided) if I did it again, but too late now. I also wish I had bought a bandsaw for all those things you make out of various sizes of angle. Also, get the smallest angle drill attachment you can find that's of good quality. Also, get the 3" belt/disc sander, not the 1".
If you have the money for all of this, do it. If I had to choose between the squeezer and the bandsaw for my next RV, I'd get the saw.
Just my personal opinion.
h
I built a QB -7A - almost done. I would get a pneumatic (single sided) if I did it again, but too late now. I also wish I had bought a bandsaw for all those things you make out of various sizes of angle. Also, get the smallest angle drill attachment you can find that's of good quality. Also, get the 3" belt/disc sander, not the 1".
If you have the money for all of this, do it. If I had to choose between the squeezer and the bandsaw for my next RV, I'd get the saw.
Just my personal opinion.
h
