Which Type of Rudder Pedals?

Hi everyone,

I'm just about to order my fuselage kit and wanted to get some input about the ground adjustable pedals. I don't have a partner for the project, so at least for now it would be just me in the front seat. How difficult is it to adjust the pedals? Also, for anyone who has installed the rear seat rudder pedals, was it worth it? Are they useful and effective? I'm interested in any pros or cons.

Thanks,

Craig23 said:

Hi everyone,

I'm just about to order my fuselage kit and wanted to get some input about the ground adjustable pedals. I don't have a partner for the project, so at least for now it would be just me in the front seat. How difficult is it to adjust the pedals? Also, for anyone who has installed the rear seat rudder pedals, was it worth it? Are they useful and effective? I'm interested in any pros or cons.

Thanks,

Click to expand...

Hi Craig.

I have a (flying) QB RV-8, and the in-flight adjustable (standard) pedals were easy to install and work fine. My understanding at the time was that, at least on a quickbuild, the ground adjustable pedals were more work to install, for marginal benefit.

I bought the rear seat pedal kit, but wound up not installing it. IMHO they clutter up the front cockpit, and don't really work all that well. I have flown in a backseat with the pedals, and didn't feel that they were worth the hassle. I don't plan on landing the airplane from the back, and in flight they really aren't that necesssary. At cruise speeds the airplane has negligible adverse yaw.

If I did it again, I would make the same decisions.

James Freeman

P.S. On second thought, disregard the above. You should really buy the rear seat rudder pedals, just don't buy new ones from Van's, as the powder coat may not have had time to fully cure--look for a set that have been sitting around for several years, uninstalled. You might have to pay a little extra, but it'd definitely be worth it...

P.P.S. I might have a set lying around, properly aged

Yeah, that's the ticket!

Rudder pedals

I've got the ground adjustable (vs. the workshop adjustable) and they are probably worth the small amount of extra work to get them installed. As some have noted, you can slide them out of the way on long flights, just like you might slide the seat back on some aircraft.

As James said, the rear pedals should be purchased used, and whatever price he gives you, I'll double it, and I'll even add on shipping costs from Switzerland.

Rear seat pedals

There seems to be a consensus here. Are the rear seat rudder pedals really that bad? And if so, why? I was going to put them in but now I'm beginning to wonder... I'm a good year and half away from that decision yet anyway...

Rear pedals

I personally didn't like the way they are installed, and I spoke to other builders that had them installed and they said they didn't get full travel from the rear pedals. I'm pretty much a solo flyer, and even if I take someone for a ride, I'm not too keen on them performing maneuvers that *require* them to have rudder control. I don't even have a throttle in the rear.

Clearly other people have different situations, and may find them to be useful.

ground adjustable rudder pedals

If you are building the fuselage and not ordering a QB, the ground adjustable pedals are easy to install and have less parts. Readjusting the ground adj is not a 5 minute job as the link between the pedals and the rudder cable needs to be changed. Don't know if adjusting the standard (or adjustable pedals) would be a good idea in flight anyway. As far as the rear pedals are concerned, they are a bit cumbersome but decided to install them (working on that now). I'm building a -8A and will be flying from the rear seat (hopefully to keep my sons out of trouble) and feel rear pedals are a neccessity.

I went with the in-flight adjustable pedals, and I have used the feature already on cross-countries when I want to stretch out. You may not adjust them often, but if you want to, you can....

Most of the time, when my feet are on the pedals, I have them adjusted full aft - you'd have to have a lot longer legs than I to use them in any more forward position!

Paul

Problem Solved

Thanks guys for all the advice and offers for your rear seat pedals. You've definitely helped me make up my mind. The offers to sell your properly aged parts sound too good to be true, so they probably are. I'll bet shipping from Switzerland would be a real bargain! I think I'll go with the air adjustable pedals and no rear seat pedals.

Craig

P.S. Great website Mickey. How's the Subaru installation going?

Scott Chastain said:

With respect to the "cure time" for powder coated parts, there is none! It is horsepucky to suggest that powder-coated parts harden up over time. There is no curing process in powder coated finishes since the chemical properties of the powder remain constant from the time it is statically discharged to the time it is taken out of the oven. I've had my engine mount and a few other parts powder coated and they were all had nearly bullet-proof finishes from the start. The parts from Van's, however, use the wimpiest powder coating I've ever seen. The surfaces will chip if you so much as look at them crosseyed. This has nothing to do with "curing" since there is none in powder coating. But it does have everything to do with the El Cheapo powder that Van's uses which is why I strip these parts and either paint or powder coat them myself.

Click to expand...

I think the original poster was making a bit of humor on this point.

I thought it was pretty funny.

Clutter?

One of the previous replies mentioned that the rear seat pedals clutter up the front cockpit. I haven't seen a set installed. How do they install? Does anyone have any photos?

I installed rear seat rudder pedals in my RV8 both for flight reviews and for more advanced training. They don't have as much authority but are functional. I have seen rear seat rudder pedal rods bent if you have an over aggressive (paniced) rear seater (not good) however my rear seat pedals are removable with less than five minutes effort. I only put them in when necessary (like high end instruction).

Frank said:

I installed rear seat rudder pedals in my RV8 both for flight reviews and for more advanced training. They don't have as much authority but are functional. I have seen rear seat rudder pedal rods bent if you have an over aggressive (paniced) rear seater (not good) however my rear seat pedals are removable with less than five minutes effort. I only put them in when necessary (like high end instruction).

Click to expand...

Well, I bent Kahuna's rear rudder pedals in his Super 8...I wasn't even close to panicing. We were on the take-off roll and I was applying right rudder as usual. The geometry of the rear pedals is weird as they don't point straight back...they point slightly outboard. When I would press in, they would bind on the brackets holding them in place. You sort of have to fly pigeon-toed from the back. If I remember correctly, he had some sort of rubber grommet in the bracket. Don't know if this is to plans or not but the rubber was in my opinion causing the binding. A nylon bushing would probably be more suitable in this area to prevent binding.

Jamie said:

Well, I bent Kahuna's rear rudder pedals in his Super 8...I wasn't even close to panicing. We were on the take-off roll and I was applying right rudder as usual. The geometry of the rear pedals is weird as they don't point straight back...they point slightly outboard. When I would press in, they would bind on the brackets holding them in place. You sort of have to fly pigeon-toed from the back. If I remember correctly, he had some sort of rubber grommet in the bracket. Don't know if this is to plans or not but the rubber was in my opinion causing the binding. A nylon bushing would probably be more suitable in this area to prevent binding.

Click to expand...

You are absolutely right about the slight outward angle. The grommets to which you refer are the little plastic wiring hole grommets Van supplys with his wiring kits. How ever, the rudder rods/tubes came in a couple of different wall thicknesses. The only reason I know that is because I got one of each. So there may be some thin wall rudder push tubes out there. I also relocated the hole in the support brackets to more closely align the push rods with the idler throw. My occasional back seater, a fairly aggressive instructor type has yet to bend them.

Rear Rudder Pedals

Guys,
I find the rear rudder pedal to be very useful. They keep my water bottle from rolling off the shelf and onto the floor. They are also a good place to lay my Bosie X headset when I through flying.

Scott Chastain said:

Craig,

Do you really want to relapse into having to rent a Cessna for your biannual flight reviews? If you expect to have any instruction from a CFI in your brand new RV-8, you will need not only the rear seat pedals but also a throttle control for the back-seater. The FAR's are clear on this matter. I investigated this to the letter about a year ago when it came time to install the pedals in the rear. Without them, any instructor worth his weight in snot would turn you down if you requested a sign-off or instruction in your airplane.

To be honest, I cannot imagine having to revert back to flying a spam can in order to get my biannuals or to have instruction. Therefore, I'm installing the pedals and will be more than happy doing so.
Scott Chastain
N898W Reserved
IFA/Rear Seat Pedals

Click to expand...

Scott makes a good point regarding training without rear seat rudder pedals. You can install them and make them so that they can be removed in under 5 minutes. This is easily done by mounting the rear support brackets (the ones with the snap bushing in them) with nutplates and #8 screws. Where the front of the pedal rod connects to the bellcrank, replace the stock nut and bolt setup. Simply substitute a castle nut and cowling safety pin for the stock Nyloc nut. Substitute a drilled shank bolt for the stock bolt.
Install the nut and bolt between the rudder pedal rod and the bellcrank. Snug the nut so that the drilled hole in the bolt aligns with a gap in the castleated nut. Install the cowling safety pin like a cotter pin.
You can see what this pin looks like here.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/cowlingpins.php

These function like a safety pin. This will allow you to quickly remove the hardware retaining the front of the rear rudder pedal without tools. I've mounted 4 of those "snap clips" used to secure a broom in a closet in my rear baggage area. These clips hold the rear rudder pedals when they aren't needed. (Or simply leave them in the hanger). Photos can be found at the link below.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=611554&postcount=16

Charlie Kuss

Glad I did

I wasn't going to install the rear seat pedals because I thought they looked kind of cheesey, but after taking a closer look decided to go ahead with it. Used the snap bushing supplied by Van's and did a little adjusting of the bracket with hand seamer to get the bracket more properly aligned with the tube. I came away feeling that the kit was better engineered than my first impression, and in the hangar they seem to work quite well, full travel easily available from the rear seat. I also like the idler arms that are part of the kit, they seem to route the rudder cables away from the gear towers a bit. Not that it is a problem, but it looks better to me. Also installed the adjustable pedals up front, and came away from that appreciating the engineering too. Very smooth and easy to adjust, and with two of us flying and about a 4 inch difference in our preferred location, they were necessary.