Help with IFR panel upgrade

With some of the recent threads on IFR approaches and panel instruments, I thought it would be a good time to ask for opinions.
I have 400 hours and enjoy flying more everyday. Now that I have a plane that can travel cross country I want to start my IFR training. I plan to upgrade my panel to IFR and use my plane to train in. I am not looking for the minimum instruments but I am limited on space. My fear is, with little IFR experience, I don't want to upgrade my panel and them realize I cold have made better choices.
I like the layout so I am hoping I don't have to start with a new panel.
I am planning on removing the GX65 replace it with a 430w, install a 2 1/4 CDI above it in the 2 1/4 knockout where the audio switches are now (I have a two station intercom located on my right side so I don't need a audio panel). Relocate the slave GR4000 to a lower sub panel this will give me room for two 2 1/4 gauges. Add a 2 1/4 Trutrak ADI. That leaves me room for one more 2 1/4 gauge. I will also add a marker beacon (somewhere) and a heated pitot tube (AOA).
1) Is there anything else I need to add?
2) Will I have enough redundancy?
3) Is having a Dynon auto pilot a mistake?
4) Am I making a mistake training in my 8a?
Thanks, for any input

Tim,

My suggestion is to get a Dynon D10 EMS to replace the GRT EMS. Put it right below your D10A EFIS and connect them together. That way you can use the HSI screen while the engine parameters are being monitored in the background.

Then you can put the 430 where your GRT EMS' are.

Regarding the Dynon AP; do you feel comfortable flying with it in VFR conditions? Has it done anything you didn't expect? Depending on how you answer those questions should tell you if you should replace it or not.

Tim 8-A said:

With some of the recent threads on IFR approaches and panel instruments, I thought it would be a good time to ask for opinions.
I have 400 hours and enjoy flying more everyday. Now that I have a plane that can travel cross country I want to start my IFR training. I plan to upgrade my panel to IFR and use my plane to train in. I am not looking for the minimum instruments but I am limited on space. My fear is, with little IFR experience, I don't want to upgrade my panel and them realize I cold have made better choices. <snip>
4) Am I making a mistake training in my 8a?
Thanks, for any input

Click to expand...

Looking back at my IFR training process, I have to wonder how practical (possible?) it would have been in a tandem-seat aircraft if the instructor had no access to the avionics and probably difficulty seeing all the flight instruments. There is a lot of mutual hands-on-the-avionics by both inhabitants of the plane.

By all means pursue your rating, just not sure how well the -8 will be suited for training regardless of what you put in the panel.

I'm going to side with Sam on this - it is going to be very difficult to find an instructor with the experience and adaptability to give you IFR training in an -8. definitely pursue the rating, but I think you probably will find it far more efficient to train in something else.

Paul

Sam Buchanan said:

Looking back at my IFR training process, I have to wonder how practical (possible?) it would have been in a tandem-seat aircraft if the instructor had no access to the avionics and probably difficulty seeing all the flight instruments. There is a lot of mutual hands-on-the-avionics by both inhabitants of the plane.

By all means pursue your rating, just not sure how well the -8 will be suited for training regardless of what you put in the panel.

Click to expand...

Good advice but not what I was hoping to read. I checked with two local schools and the estimate for my IFR ticket is 10k, add a panel upgrade of around 12k and I have 22k invested. Using my plane would save 3 to 4k.

No Answer - Similar Situation

The instrument rating is the most difficult and most valuable rating to have but the transitory situation and expense makes choices difficult. I had a similar number of flight hours when I got my instrument rating 25 years ago. Every airplane had the same panel layout, the same basic navaid instrumentation dedicated to basic functions so I did the same in my RV-6A except for the addition of a SL-60 GPS/COM. Now the FAA, strongly supported by the AOPA, is moving toward a totally space based navaid system and I am feeling the pressure. I think the current GPS systems are far too "busy" (clugey?) to be the final answer and I hate to buy some terribly expensive POC that will be obsolete by the time I get it in the panel. However, I can see that a time is coming quickly when I will have to execute a change like you are contemplating and it occupies my mind a lot. The idea of starting over is agonizing but I'm afraid that is what it is going to take to get through this. The "430" seems like the way to base the system for now and I am rationalizing that and all it entails for me and my airplane in the future.

I think getting your instrument rating is a very positive thing for you to do but I think it is essential that you get your training in a side-by-side airplane with you and the instructor looking at the same set of instruments. The airplane should have the same primary nav systems as you want in your airplane. Actually getting the training will help you decide what is important in your airplane's panel and I wouldn't hold off on that training until your airplane is GPS IFR approach ready. A Cessna 172 or Piper Archer with the latest systems should be great for your training - the procedure training knowledge should transfer to you RV-8A fairly easily. That approach, as disgusting as it seems to me, is the way I may have to go as well - still thinking that one. Good luck with your choices.

Bob Axsom

CFII's point of view...

I've flown in the back seat of an IFR equipped 8, and there is no way I would/could give proper IFR instruction, and no way the back seater could act as PIC in IMC with instruments only on the front panel.

Just for kicks...

How about looking for a cheap IFR Cessna 150 for IFR instruction? I've seen some deals out there in this weak economy (ca. $20K). One could purchase an aircraft with current IFR certifications, go through the training, and then sell the aircraft when it's all said and done. With any sort of positive outlook on the economy in the next year or so, one could quite possibly cover the cost of financing an aircraft with the increase in value over the next several months.

I checked with a few instructors about IFR training in a tandem RV, and none felt it was wise or productive to do so. In the end, I did my IFR work in a rented 172, and I really benefited from the worry-free flying with nice equipment and sometimes nasty actual IFR conditions. I ended up with a great deal of practical experience that I think was worth the investment.

It also gave me a chance to solo in a tricycle-gear airplane (on the way to my IFR checkride), but that's another story!

Cheers,

M