Question on Step 1

Hi Everyone,

Yes, call me a slow learner, but i have a question on Step 1, cutting the taper in the VS-1014 rear spar caps. I had hoped step 1 would be *cough* *cough* easier than this.

Is a band saw recommended? It seems it would make this a 2 second job, if i had one. This piece is too thick for snips. A normal hacksaw is just a bear to use. The best I could do was a pretty ugly stair-step cut after a lot of effort.

I guess the band saw has a lot of other useful purposes. I can slice bread with it. It's just a lot of equipment for a very tight workspace.

Thanks for any input,
Jae

Jae, I'm not a builder...yet. But in the 1+ years I've been lurking around here, I've heard numerous times that a band-saw (along with a pneumatic squeezer) is one of the most valuable tools to get. I've even heard that a small $100 table-top version from Harbor Freight will work okay. My lurker vote is: yes-get one. Hope this helps. -Jim

I've built my entire slow build 4 without a bandsaw... but having said that, I would DEFINITELY get one if I had it to do over again. A little one is all you need.

yup - if you can...

Band Saw, bench-top belt sander, and pneumatic squeezer!

You absolutely can build the airplane without them, but boy, do they make the job quicker! Sure, they cost money - but if you buy them used (check out garage sales for the saw and sander), the percentage of the overall aircraft cost is negligable....

My 18-month build would have taken a LOT longer without some power tool assistance!

Paul

Cutting metal

Not sure what the rear spar cap is, but I have found that Delta $99 bandsaw from Lowes doesn't do well on anything thicker than .063 sheet. Can't cut a straight line for nothing. Might be operator error, but I don't seem to have trouble building an airplane. Anyway, I use a jigsaw to cut anything other than alclad sheet. A little Boelube with the metal cutting blade and you are in business. Hacksaw if you can't get the jigsaw to it. Hope this helps.

Don't have one

jchang10 said:

..
Is a band saw recommended? It seems it would make this a 2 second job, if i had one. This piece is too thick for snips. A normal hacksaw is just a bear to use. The best I could do was a pretty ugly stair-step cut after a lot of effort.

I guess the band saw has a lot of other useful purposes. I can slice bread with it. It's just a lot of equipment for a very tight workspace.

Click to expand...

Yes, I guess a band saw would make it easier, however I cut mine with a portable Jig Saw. You can see it here on the right.

I still don't have a band saw as I start on the Fuselage. Not a requirement but I could imagine how it could have made some things easier. I probably have not gotten around to getting one for the same reason as you have cited--space.

Bandsaw stuff

Go for a bandsaw. There are two basic types available----------table top models, with three wheels, which are hobby level machines, and two wheel units that usually have thier own stand.

Differences that are most important to you, table top units have smaller wheels------blade runs on these wheels---------which requires a blade that can flex to a smaller radius. This requires a THINNER blade, which breaks easier, and doesnt cut as straight. Also it seems that every manufacture of table top machines has a different blade length, could make finding blades harder. They usually have rubbing blocks for blade guides, instead of ball bearing roller guides. BUT, table top units are cheaper.

For another $100 to $150 or so, you can get a nice two wheel machine with roller blade guides, and that will accept blades that can be custom built in your local saw shop. They will cut straighter, and faster, with less blade breakage. You can cut closer to the line, and take less time filing/deburring parts.

I happen to use a table top unit, beacuse I already had one, BUT if it ever dies, I will replace it with a 10" Ryobi that I saw at Home Depot.

If you go with a table top model, there was a web site posted here a month or so ago where you can mail order custom blades for metal cutting.

Good luck, either will work, both have advantages, and disadvantages.

Mike S.

-10

For most stuff like this, I mark it with a sharpie, and then grind it down on my bench disc sander. Then I touch up with a vixen file and smooth file, emery, scotchbrite (maybe just the scotchbrite wheel if I don't feel like emery and scotchbrite) and done. It sounds like a lot of work, but I've found it takes me about the same amount of time doing a rough cut with the band saw and then lots of finish work with the file as grinding to the outside of the line with the disc sander and just some touch up with the file. YMMV...if you're better at long, straight, freehand cuts than I am, the bandsaw will probably save you a lot of time.

The only recommendation I have with a band saw is to either get a really nice one, or get the cheapy harbor freight one. The "medium" quality ones ala' Craftsman aren't good bang for the buck, IMHO (they cost several hundred, but aren't that nice). In retrospect, I wish I'd just gotten the el' cheapo band saw, saved lots of money, and it would have been perfectly adequate (a fellow builder and A&P in the area is constantly reminding me that we're not making jewlery...the stupid thing just needs to cut).

edit: Just wanted to add something about midrange band saws. There's one I saw at Home Depot last year that seemed really promising. It's made by Ryobi, and it seemed like a very high quality unit. If you want to spend more than harbor freight, but don't want to go super high end, I would definately consider trying the Ryobi unit out with the caveat that you should try it as soon as you get home and be prepared to return it if it's junk like all the rest. I would definately stay away from the midrange Craftsman and Delta, though....very poor value there.

I used a hacksaw with a new blade and lots of boelube for mine. Just get close to the lines and finish it off with the bench grinder. Don't get too close to the lines though or you will be ordering another piece of angle from Vans...

Gotta have one!

imho it's one of those must have's. I bought a Delta 12" from a garage sale for $25 bucks. It's by far the most time saving tool next to the Pneumatic Squeezer. Could have used a larger one but didn't want to spend the bucks. You will be happy with a 10 or 12" (Wouldn't everyone?) This is what I did for my most used tools. Tool Table

Delta $89 variety from Lowes has worked great for me, including angle up to .25" thick. Just make sure to get an 18 tpi blade at Lowes (about $6.00 and no need to go mail order) for cutting metal and you're good to go. You're going to be fabricating parts a lot--you'll get your money's worth.
Have fun!

A good approach for many aluminum part fabrication tasks like this is as described by previous posters...a rough cut by whatever means you have followed with a fine cut to dimension required and finished by a polish/finish step.

Each of these can be done by a number of methods. I would agree that a bandsaw (of acceptable quality and speed) is very handy. My shop has a speed reduced Craftsman 14" band saw with a narrow fine tooth blade, a disk/belt sander, and a bench grinder equipped with a flap sander (along with a BP mill, 14" lathe, TIG/OA welders, Drill press and table saw)

So, my flow is bandsaw to rough, disk sand or file to final, polish with flap sander. My mentor was Tony Bingelis. We would joke that Tony (the master builder who built 8 planes after retirement and wrote the definitive HB reference books) would look a the print at one side of his shop and have the part ready for paint a few minutes later on the other side of his shop (a two car garage).

HOWEVER, the real reason for this post is to make sure the earlier poster who recommended finishing with a bench grinder mean't "finish with a bench grinder EQUIPPED with a flap sander or scotch brite wheel". Grinding aluminum with a normal abrasive grinding wheel is very dangerous. The wheel loads up with the gummy aluminum and can then explode. Not good for one's health, shop or project...

Deene
RV8 QB inbound
BD-4, One Design, sold

Tool shopping again, sigh

Thank you, everyone, for the feedback! You have given me plenty to think about.

I can definitely see the way of the band saw, belt sander, and scotchbrite path. i wish i had the patience and hand skills to do it all by hand, but i have to be realistic w/ myself.

Happy building to everyone,
Jae

Angle Grinder with Cut off Wheel?

As one final option to pursue or shoot down as an alternative to doing the band saw, has anyone had any luck with using angle grinders with cutoff wheels?

1. they are cheap.
2. they are small.

Nobody mentioned using one, yet, and was just curious why no mention of it, yet.

Jae

Angle grinder and Cut-off wheel?

Yes, I use this combination a lot - but only for straight line cuts. The Band Saw is much better if you want to carefully cut to a curve. The angle grinder can grab and be a bit harder to control, so you have to be careful, but I know I went through a stack of disks during my build!

Paul

I tried to do these parts with my dremel cutoff wheel, I gave up after wearing down 3 discs, The die grinder discs would probably last a bit longer but I have had the best luck with mine on the smaller stuff. Deene, I forgot about that bench grinder thing thanks for pointing it out. I only use mine with scotchbrite wheels.

I cut mine with a handsaw and then used a vixen file to clean it up and get closer to the line I had drawn followed by the scotch brite medium then polishing. It came out good.

You might check Lowe's I have since bought a Delta 9 inch bandsaw and got it there for $59. Wasn't marked as on sale and I had been watching it but didn;t want to spring for the $99 they had on it. Walked by one day and it was marked $59 so I bought it. Very handy.

Another tip is to use an old paper cutter for the thinner stuff. I got that from the site here somewhere but don't remember who suggested it. I used thepaper cutter for the stiffeners in the rudder and elevators. Worked good and was a fast way of doing it. YMMV

Method of Madness

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to close this thread with what I ultimately chose to do.

I was at the store and just could not quite bite the bullet yet to get the band saw. Instead, i noticed a Craftsman All-in-one tool http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?pid=00926561000&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&cs=e1

Since I knew i needed to get some sort of rotary tool anyway, I decided to give this tool with the angle grinder attachment a whirl first. My hope was it would be good enough to give me the 16" rough cut for now. Then go to the line with the belt sander. Then finish with the scotchbrite wheel.

Obviously, I have to be more careful with this hand tool, but I finally got past this step and have something I can feel more proud of.

Thanks again for the words of advice. I will be watching for band saw sales.

Jae
Past Step 1