View Full Version : The "We Want the AP76" thread
09-16-2009, 01:18 AM
If any of you would really like to see the AP76 come to life in the future, please send me your details via a PM and encourage your mates to as well.
I am going to start a big push to co-operate with Dynon on getting this one to market. I will need your support.
If we can get this over the line, Dynon's Skyview and "Classic view" will be the best AP/EFIS on the market!
So all the lurkers out there, put your hand in the air and be counted! With enough support we can make this happen.
09-16-2009, 04:26 AM
Good luck with this.
All their resources are working on the SkyView (the new stuff) and it is unlikely they will pull people off that to work an the AP76.
BTW, the SkyView won't need the AP74/AP76. The features those units add to the D10/100/180 will be included.
09-16-2009, 04:49 AM
... BTW, the SkyView won't need the AP74/AP76. The features those units add to the D10/100/180 will be included.
Bill may know something already, however I am also guessing that Dynon may just include some of those Skyview autopilot features back into the D10/100/180, thus not requiring another box (AP74/AP76) for the additional features.
For instance, I already have an HS34, and the pilot functionality with that box is superb (I don't feel the need for a separate AP74). Kudos to Dynon.
Dynon has set their priorities as a company, and we should respect that and let them accomplish their tasks. We want a successful company that will be there after the storm (this one, or another one). Dynon has always made good on producing a quality product at affordable prices, throwing in software goodies along the way. Just look at their history.
09-16-2009, 05:00 AM
Thanks for pointing out the obvious, and you are right, the actual AP76 hardware will not be needed in Skyview, but the AP74 is not much of a smart box either, its just an interface for the AP which is embedded in the 100/D180.
The AP76 I dare say was not much more complex at all, the real deal is in the code.
Unless I am very wrong, the development of the same functions in the skyview will basically be the same development for the D100. Or should be at least.
The major issue here is we were all sold on the AP76......had no reason to believe it would not be developed. So those of us who built panels accordingly are really in a very bad spot. We bought the farm so to speak on Dynons good word, and I do believe they will come good on it. Just not right now.
For those who have the "Classic View" product, it is not a simple conversion.
If we asked Stein what it would truly cost to remove, redesign and rewire a new panel into my aircraft or anyone elses, the cost would be staggering. Way more than the cost of the Skyview system on top of teh system price. Dynon would need to give me a skyview and about $10,000 to make it worth doing, and I do not expect them to do anything but laugh at that suggestion. So for the current Classic users out there, that will not have a viable upgrade path, I do believe the AP76 is worth fighting for, and if the numbers stack up, even with a doubling of the price, it would be worth it.
So if you want it.....let me know, i will add you to the list. The list is small but growing. :)
And when I get enough support I will put my money where my mouth is and go to the other side of the planet to talk to them face to face.
09-16-2009, 06:47 AM
...The AP76 I dare say was not much more complex at all, the real deal is in the code.
Unless I am very wrong, the development of the same functions in the skyview will basically be the same development for the D100. Or should be at least...
You are correct and one thing I have found in developing the EICommander (www.eicommander) and confirmed with other avionics manufactures (Not just those who serve the Experimental market) is that developing the hardware is the easy part.
The real time and money goes into the software development. The figure I was told by one avionics manufacture was that the cost of developing the software, testing, and documenting (manuals, tech docs, etc.) easily exceed that of the hardware development by a factor of three or four. In our case, that was easily the truth.
Still, I wish Dynon had finished the AP76 as I looked forward to testing it. However, after flying with the AP74, I don't really see the need. Sure coupled approaches would be cool but do you really need them? The rudimentary form of vertical nav available via the AP74/D10A/D100/D180 is pretty nice.
BTW, the expansion modules are only a user interface. They simply issue commands to the EFIS and the EFIS is what controls the servos.
Dynon has been very open with stating that processing capacity of the D10A/D100/D180 is close to being maxed out, thus the desire to develop their new systems. So other than fixing bugs, I wouldn’t look to much more growth in this product line.
Just to be clear, I'm not an employee of Dynon nor do I have any inside information regarding these products. Dynon may well come back and add that I'm full of it. Why not call them directly and ask them? I'm sure they will tell you exactly why they dropped the AP76 with no BS.
09-16-2009, 08:28 AM
I want to see it developed. I can't use it with my current panel but my panel was designed to be upgraded to include a future 430W and if I had that, I would want the AP76 or at least the equivalent functionality added to the AP74/EFIS combo that gives you GPSSV/GS guidance. They really only needed one more button but I suppose they could add that as a soft button on the EFIS or do something with the AP74 buttons.
I doubt I would ever rip out the entire thing and replace the current gen system with a Skyview and I hope Dynon is not banking that most current gen customers will do that!
09-16-2009, 08:58 PM
Sure coupled approaches would be cool but do you really need them? The rudimentary form of vertical nav available via the AP74/D10A/D100/D180 is pretty nice.
Just to answer this question for you, because it is valid, do we need them. No. But we dont live in that kind of world do we, otherwise Boeing and Airbus would not offer VNAV either.
As for single pilot IFR ops, it is a massive safety feature. The biggest enemy to a single IFR pilot is workload, and when its really yucky, the more the A/P flies of the approach (where the accident is most likely) and the more the pilot monitors all parameters ATC etc, the much safer the flight will be. Many of us have the NAV systems to drive the VNAV, and the SkyView will get it, I think its only fair that those of us who were sucked in (not in a malicous way) to the AP76 functionality deserve to get it also once its been developed for the SV system.
Even if the price is much higher, it would be worth it.
As for the rudementary VS function...... try doing an RNAV with it :eek: in fact, unless its smooth air, it is far better to disconnect the ALT function and climb or descend by hand.
As for the strength of the company, I could not agree more, we as customers all want Dynon to succeed. Heck if they were in trouble right now and made a request for $100 from every customer as a donation to see the company pull through....I would send $200. I am in business and understand the concept. I also understand that we may have to pay more for the AP76. So be it.
09-17-2009, 09:43 AM
I for one would like to see the AP76 for the classic. When Dynon first advertised the A/P the AP76 was mentioned as a future capability, they had to already have been working on the Skyview system then. Later they decide to commit all resources to the Skyview, which is a business decision. I don't anticipate that they will abandon development of the AP76 since there are those of us who have the classic Dynon with Gamin 430W and would like the capability. I personally don't mind waiting some bit of time, but I will be disappointed if they totally abandon a product they promised would be out there, many have designed around this future piece of equipment. It is nice to have the latest and greatest but the budget is the ultimate driver. My guess is we will see the AP76 at some point, but I don't mind adding my name to a list, it will at least give Dynon some information on the impact to continue development of VNAV for the classic users.