electric gyro failure

I recently had my RC Allen electric gyro horizon fail after only 90 hours of use. It's supposed to last a lot longer than that so I'm wondering if anyone else has had any experience (good or bad) with the electric gyro. I went with the electric because it seemed a good way to simplify (eliminate vacuum system) without compromising quality. I fly my RV-6 IFR occasionally so I definitely need a good quality horizon.

I'm contemplating the same gyro. I'm curious how it failed.

Failure

Guys,

My RCA 26AK horizon failed right out of the box, then again, at ~100 hours. The problem was a bad batch of power conditioning boards. When the first was replaced, Kelly (RCA manufacturer) stuffed in another, unwittingly drawing from the same lot that was not yet known to be bad. Kelly did this for free even though out of date warranty. The second one they charged me, and also threw in an overhaul at cost and an additional year's warranty, all this plus swearing on a stack of bibles that the bad boards had been flushed out of stock and a new improved designed installed.

The 15AK directional gyro has operated flawlessly for 125 hours.

John Siebold

I also have a bad RCA electric horizon in my panel. It powers up fine but tends to drift off into a left bank in less than 10 minutes. I bought it used from another RV flyer and it supposedly had less than 100 hours on it, but I can't say for sure. It's never worked properly for me, but I only use it as a back up to my GRT Efis.

I have planned to pull it out and send it back for service so I'd be interested in whether others have had any luck doing so.

f1rocket said:

I also have a bad RCA electric horizon in my panel. It powers up fine but tends to drift off into a left bank in less than 10 minutes. I have planned to pull it out and send it back for service so I'd be interested in whether others have had any luck doing so.

Click to expand...

I purchased a brand new lighted RCA electric gyro from The Gyro House knowing it would be a several months before actually flying. In my case, the warranty clock started ticking the date of manufacture, NOT the date of purchase. I would power it up and let it run on the bench for approximately a half hour at a time once or twice a month. It failed right after I installed it in the airplane, so I sent to back to Kelly for assessment and repair. Upon inspection, I really got the sense they did not know what they were talking about. The voice on the phone had all the savvy of some minimum wage clerk and she claimed the service people told her the bearings were worn out and had to be replaced! Upon repair, and it cost me plenty, but I cannot recall how much though, I reinstalled it in the plane but has NOT been reliable from day one. It tends to drift off intermittantly. Curiously, I met an RV-7A owner at a fly-in who told me the identical thing about HIS RCA electric gyro and the folks at Kelly told him the voltage was critical and the size wire he installed to it was suspect. Also, a major beef I have with the whole thing is the extremely ambigious coding used on the MS311E8-4S connector that is required with this and other RCA units. I even had a seasoned A&P who works in the avionics shop for FEDEX scratching his head trying to figure out what wire went where. C'mon, there is only 4 wires going into the doggone thing. There is not a Chinaman's chance in Hades I will ever install another RCA gyro in this lifetime.

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
RV-8A empennage complete

What kind of luck are people having with the non TSO'd electric gyros sold by Spruce? I expect electric gyros to last a very long time for the price they charge. My Navaid gyro is still going strong after 150 hours and I hope a lot longer.

Here's the deal with Gyros and your RV. None of them seem to last very long or very well, especially if you do any wifferdills on a regular basis.

Also to note, I have certified "cageable" Sigma-Teks in my -6 that are now almost shot (both gyros) from having too much fun after about 400hrs.

To be honest, we also sell the imported gyros, electric and vacuum and honestly wouldn't recommend them very highly. If it were me (and it has been), I would chuck the gyros all together and just go with a Dynon, TruTrak ADI, BMA Lite or something like that. Not much more money, and they will certainly last longer and put up with the wifferdill abuse that RV drivers regularly dish out. Also, let's not turn this into the inevitably heated debate on Glass vs. Mechanical either.

Just my 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein.

Sporty's electric AI - good marks from Av Consumer

The "cheap" electric AI that Sporty's sells got high marks in the Oct '05 review done by Aviation consumer. It is based on the L-3 AIM 300-14 and is manufactured by Castleberry Instruments in Georgetown, TX. I'm still debating whether to go with elec gyro's or an EFIS, but the Sporty's AI is on my short list. Any body have any first hand experience with this instrument?

Regarding the Sporty's unit, I've seen one up close and personal and I think it's a very nice unit. Appears to be very well made and definately looks to be a good gyro as far as gyros go.

That being said, personally I still can't see spending $1600.00 on a 4lb chunk of spinning metal that will go nuts if you do a loop in the plane. Add to the $1600.00 the fact that you still have to buy 5 other instruments, and to me the alternative EFIS's (or the nearly weightless solid state TruTrak ADI which is nearly $500 cheaper) are a no brainer. But then again, I've been known to be short on brains once and awhile

Cheers,
Stein.

Since I'd like to go with the GRT EFIS in my panel, and intend on flying IFR occasionally, I'm personally not comfortable without some sort of backup. The choices as I see them are either a slightly complex and relatively fragile AI, or a brutally simple turn coordinator.

First, my method of deciding: I'm always looking at my plane from a system reliability standpoint. I'm part of that system, and I have no confidence in my abilities to reliably pull off flying blind on partial panel without serious pucker factor. I'm sure everything would be fine in the end, but I'm also sure it would be absolutely nerve racking esp. in turbulence. Frankly, the practice it takes to do it comfortably is probably not something I'd want to commit to. YMMV but I'm just being honest with myself. I think most would agree that partial panel is a serious situation and no amount of practice would result in warm fuzzies should you ever have to do it for real with your life on the line. I'm not looking for "*PHEW* I made it!*. I'm looking for NO pucker factor from begining to end, even with a failure or two.

I don't need a backup gyro for VFR flight. In fact, I could jetison the alternator and batteries and it wouldn't matter diddly squat in terms of flight safety for VFR (big deal...I don't know what my CHT's are or my attitude...That's what my eyes and ears are for, for heaven's sake

Given this, my intent is to put the electric backup AI on a switch and only switch it on when I intend to do any sort of IFR (and regularly switch it on during normal flight to exercise the switch/gyro and make sure it's working). This is standard practice in the KCABS I use for acro, and the turn coordinator (they don't have any fancy shmancy AI's ) last forever and a day. I don't see why this wouldn't significantly increase the life of the AI as well for someone who like to yank and bank.

I'm sure I'll rethink this and change my mind half a dozen times before I actually build the panel, but this is what I've figured so far. Does this sound reasonable, or is there something I'm not thinking about the right way?

My Solution.....

John,

You have an excellent point aout having a backup to the EFIS - even though the GRT has a great reputation (and I love mine!), you ned to have something to get you home. I looked long and hard at electric ADI's, and couldn't find what I wanted, so I went a slightly different route - the Tru-Trak Pictorial Pilot. In this little package, you get both a turn coordinator and an autopilot, completely independent of the EFIS. With it, you can fly partial panel, just as we have all trained and practiced - but why would you? Just engage the autopilot while you think about which direction you want to go to get out of the mess you're in. Pitch is not hard if the wings stay levelled by the A/P - just keep it in trim.

When you've figured out an exit strategy, just diddle the heading knob on the A/P, and it will take you out of there. With proper electrical system redundancy, I am quite happy to fly IFR this way.

Paul

That's a good point about the autopilot. I intend on installing an AP as well, but it never occured to me that the AP itself is a secondary source of attitude information and in fact can serve as a backup. Agreed that partial panel is actually pretty simple if the AP performs the wing levelling.

Gyros Fail

IMHO I think the steam gauges are on their way out. How about a GRT EFIS or the like, A TruTrak autopilot like the pictorial Pilot that can double as an AI or TC and to back both of those up with a Garmin 196 or the equivalent. It has its own batteries and has been proven to get you out of a jam if all else fails. Yes, the GPS signal could also go at the same time as everything else but the chances are no more apt to happen than the electric or vacuum gyro taking a bath at an inopportune time. By the way, when the EFIS goes south you declare an emergency! The objective at that time, if you are IFR in the soup is to get to VFR. ATC will help you and you probably will not even have to fill out any paperwork!
I always fly with my wife because "The family that flies together dies together." She is not amused by that quote I might add!

Update on Electric Gyro Failure

Follow-up on my original posting.....My electric gyro needed new bearings ($150.). I have a new 1-year warranty but to be honest I still don't feel comfortable with this instrument as my IFR primary horizon. Looking at what's available in glass I was really amazed, particularly with the EFIS lite box from Blue Mountain. This unit replaces all my flight instruments with one supposedly "aerobatics proof" package and also includes an internal GPS. It will also fit into one of my existing 3 1/8" holes since I'm out of available panel space. What I don't know is wether this unit will display satellite nexrad and/or terrain on it's moving map . Does anyone have any experience with these units?

Blue Mountain What it will display

I would email the company and ask the very questions you posted here. The Blue Mountain folks should reply QUICKLY.

Anyone using RC Allen electric DGs? What kind of life are you seeing? The Falcon electric DGs have not been available for almost a year and now suppliers are saying another 2-6 months. Clearly they are not presently in production with delays like this.

I'm a VFR guy myself..

but feel one should have the capability to go without a ground reference if needed (which has happened a few times). I personally opted for the TruTrak ADI and the Digiflight II VS. I kept these units seperate intentionally so this would give me 2 independent sources of attitude. Both units work exceptionally well and did I mention I love the A/P! Both units have been trouble free.
Walt 7A 500+ hrs

Switched AI

John

I switched mine as well. After two mechanical (vacuum) gyros in 800 hours I was tired of the cost. I cover it up when SVFR to avoid the eye-catching distraction of a keeled over gyro.

A second question on the same issue. The RC Allen unit that I have is cageable. Wondering if pulling and holding it in a caged position (when off) would further reduce wear and tear. I think vibration as well as the wifferdills causes fatique. Not knowledgeable enough on the internal construction to know if this would further reduce wear. I would just pop a piece of split plastic tubing behind the cage knob to hold it out. Anybody ever take one apart?

Yes, keep the unit caged when turned off and doing akro. Otherwise the gyros will "bang" against the stops. I did exactly as you are proposing with the split tubing when I had the RC Allen gyro horizon.

I've got the attitude covered with other stuff just wondering what sort of life people have seen from the RCA directional gyros? Is anyone still flying this dated technology?

The RC Allen gyros are junk. I sent them my gyro, which had already been re-built within 100 hours when I bought it, and it needed about $900 worth of bearings and replacement parts. I told them they could keep it.

I ordered an electric gyro from Sporty's and have been very happy with it so far, about 60 hours.

I put in a Falcon electric gyro as a "standard technology" backup to my 2 BMAs. Worked well for the 40 hrs of Phase I. I kept it off and caged during wifferdills.

On the first cross country post phase 1 it rolled left and crapped out. So much for backup with conventional gyro's.

Failed Falcon Gauge

Interesting. I just got off the phone with the nice people that make the Falcon electric attitude gyro (ordered through Spruce). Mine worked fine for about 2 weeks, then went into a slight left turn. They say send it back to be looked at. I remember waiting to button down the top skin for this gauge, and making a hole in the middle bulkhead to accomodate the plug. I'm wondering if it's worth the exercise to remove the monster and reinstall it- if it will really be fixed. $1100 buys a lot of gas.

Sounds like the Falcon ones are **** too. Should I spend $3000 on an AIM-205? I think not. My Vacuum Sigma Tek DG is awesome and reliable. How about I strap a venturi to the belly and save a bunch of time and money?

So much for electric gyros being better.

I've contacted another Chinese manufacturer to see what they can offer. Gotta plug the 3 1/8 hole in the panel with something useful.

What do people think about the Mid Continent gyros? They're more expensive...are they any better?

PJ
RV-10 #40032