Van's Air Force
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Flashlight requirements?
- Thread starter N941WR
- Start date
Jamie
Well Known Member
Don Jones
Well Known Member
John Clark
Well Known Member
A good read...
Not regulation, but a recommendation from the FAA:
http://tinyurl.com/6lshqd
Flashlights on page 10-3
John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
Not regulation, but a recommendation from the FAA:
http://tinyurl.com/6lshqd
Flashlights on page 10-3
John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
jthocker
Well Known Member
Not sure about Part 91, but our airline's Principal Operations Inspector signed off on a very specific LED type flashlight. We're now allowed to carry 1 of a few different models of the SUREFIRE brand only!
If an airline guy can carry something smaller than a 2-D cell, I would think a 91 guy could.
If an airline guy can carry something smaller than a 2-D cell, I would think a 91 guy could.
If you fly at night, whether a flashlight is required or not, it is wise to carry at least one, if not 2, flashlights and change the batteries out at different times to be sure you have at least one with good batteries.
2 local guys got killed a couple months back when they had a night time electrical failure. At this rural airport, it is easy to lose sight of the runway lights if you get low when you are about to turn to base. We do know he was low in the pattern; we don't know if a he would have watched his altitude better with a flashlight, but it may have been a factor.
The pilot called the airport owner on his cell phone to ask that he turn on the runway lights. So we speculate he could have called 911; they could have called Portland tower who could have cleared him in by cell phone.
BTW, lacking a flashlight, you can use your cell phone for a little illumination.
Just a couple ideas for your bag of tricks in case you find yourselves in a similar situation.
2 local guys got killed a couple months back when they had a night time electrical failure. At this rural airport, it is easy to lose sight of the runway lights if you get low when you are about to turn to base. We do know he was low in the pattern; we don't know if a he would have watched his altitude better with a flashlight, but it may have been a factor.
The pilot called the airport owner on his cell phone to ask that he turn on the runway lights. So we speculate he could have called 911; they could have called Portland tower who could have cleared him in by cell phone.
BTW, lacking a flashlight, you can use your cell phone for a little illumination.
Just a couple ideas for your bag of tricks in case you find yourselves in a similar situation.
John Clark
Well Known Member
Alternate light...
Many years ago the P.O.I. at my airline signed off in a simpler way, putting "or equivalent" after the 2-D cell requirement. No specifications, no name brands. Most of us had at least two Mini Mag Lites in our bag. Old habits die hard, there are two Mag Lites in my '8'.
John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
Many years ago the P.O.I. at my airline signed off in a simpler way, putting "or equivalent" after the 2-D cell requirement. No specifications, no name brands. Most of us had at least two Mini Mag Lites in our bag. Old habits die hard, there are two Mag Lites in my '8'.
John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
One word.....Headlamp!!
I have always carried flashlights, and then Louise introduced me to compact LED headlamps, and there is nothing better in the cockpit at night. Light, just whee are looking!
(Still have a flashlight as well....)
Paul
I have always carried flashlights, and then Louise introduced me to compact LED headlamps, and there is nothing better in the cockpit at night. Light, just whee are looking!
(Still have a flashlight as well....)
Paul
N941WR
Legacy Member
Paul,
I couldn't agree with you more. I've been using LED Micro headlamps for backpacking for 10 years +/- and have one in my flight bag.
But, the question is, do you still need the two "D" cell flashlight to be legal?
Don't leave home without um...
No legal requirement to have a flashlight on board at all (Part 91), let alone one with two D size batteries.
if you believe that:
No legal requirement to have any landing lights on the aircraft at all to land at night (Part 91/non commercial).
if you believe that:
No need to have a whisky compass either, because it isn't required by the F.A.R.'s....
but, it might be smart to not leave home without um....
Jim Baker
RV-6
N699JB
CFI
No legal requirement to have a flashlight on board at all (Part 91), let alone one with two D size batteries.
if you believe that:
No legal requirement to have any landing lights on the aircraft at all to land at night (Part 91/non commercial).
if you believe that:
No need to have a whisky compass either, because it isn't required by the F.A.R.'s....
but, it might be smart to not leave home without um....
Jim Baker
RV-6
N699JB
CFI
No legal
if you believe that:
No need to have a whisky compass either, because it isn't required by the F.A.R.'s....
Jim Baker
RV-6
N699JB
CFI
Yes but our operating limitations require us to meet the requirements of FAR 91 which says...
(a) General. Except as provided in paragraphs (c)(3) and (e) of this section, no person may operate a powered civil aircraft with a standard category U.S. airworthiness certificate in any operation described in paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section unless that aircraft contains the instruments and equipment specified in those paragraphs (or FAA-approved equivalents) for that type of operation, and those instruments and items of equipment are in operable condition.
(b) Visual-flight rules (day). For VFR flight during the day, the following instruments and equipment are required:
(1) Airspeed indicator.
(2) Altimeter.
(3) Magnetic direction indicator.
<remainder sniped out>
It doesn't require a whiskey (wet compass) but it does require a mag heading indicator. We get to choose...EFIS, mag compass, floating needle in a cork, etc.
As far as flashlights go, I have started carrying one of the LED lights with the hand crank dyno on it. So I am never stuck with dead batteries. Now if I could just find one with a head band.
Hey Jim,
How are you and Vicky doing?
We hope all is well.
splitting hairs...
Scott quoted: (a) General. Except as provided in paragraphs (c)(3) and (e) of this section, no person may operate a powered civil aircraft with a standard category U.S. airworthiness certificate in any operation described in paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section unless ...........
-------------------------
Splitting hairs and involving the legal types, a question arises: Does this section even apply to us? Experimentals are not even issued standard category airworthy certificates, are they??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Airworthiness_Certificate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Airworthiness_Certificate
Comments?
Jim Baker
Scott quoted: (a) General. Except as provided in paragraphs (c)(3) and (e) of this section, no person may operate a powered civil aircraft with a standard category U.S. airworthiness certificate in any operation described in paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section unless ...........
-------------------------
Splitting hairs and involving the legal types, a question arises: Does this section even apply to us? Experimentals are not even issued standard category airworthy certificates, are they??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Airworthiness_Certificate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Airworthiness_Certificate
Comments?
Jim Baker
Yes Jim it does apply, because of our operating limitations.
Since Part 91 specifically doesn't apply because as you pointed out, E-AB isn't a standard category aircraft, the operating limitations we are issued write the requirement back in.
Here is a couple of the standard ones that are always issued...
(1) No person may operate this aircraft for other than the purpose of meeting the requirements
of ? 91.319(b) during phase I flight testing, and for recreation and education after meeting these
requirements as stated in the program letter (required by ? 21.193) for this aircraft. In addition, this
aircraft must be operated in accordance with applicable air traffic and general operating rules of part 91
and all additional limitations herein prescribed under the provisions of ? 91.319(e). These operating
limitations are a part of Form 8130-7, and are to be carried in the aircraft at all times and be available to
the pilot in command of the aircraft.
(9) Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used under ? 91.205 must be inspected
and maintained in accordance with the requirements of part 91. Any maintenance or inspection of this
equipment must be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records.
There is also one for the Part 91 requirements for panel labeling and placards and a few others as well.
Equipment List
I posted this list the other day on the compass thread.
http://www.rainierultralightengines.com/forms/Minimum_Inst_Requirements.pdf
Unless it is out of date, only lights listed are anti-collision and position which are required night VFR and day/night IFR.
Ironically, it seems my friends are always showing off their new LED flashlights like they were prize possessions when they find a new one they really like.
You know - boys and their toys.
I posted this list the other day on the compass thread.
http://www.rainierultralightengines.com/forms/Minimum_Inst_Requirements.pdf
Unless it is out of date, only lights listed are anti-collision and position which are required night VFR and day/night IFR.
Ironically, it seems my friends are always showing off their new LED flashlights like they were prize possessions when they find a new one they really like.
You know - boys and their toys.
Last edited:
Hmmm
As previously posted, flashlights are a 135/121 requirement, but still a good idea.
Regarding the whisky compass - So the EFIS counts as a magnetic direction indicator, but does it also fulfil the "gyroscopic direction indicator" requirement for those instruments required for instrument flight?
Is there an Advisory Circular out there dealing with glass cockpits and how they relate to the regulations? Thanks
As previously posted, flashlights are a 135/121 requirement, but still a good idea.
Regarding the whisky compass - So the EFIS counts as a magnetic direction indicator, but does it also fulfil the "gyroscopic direction indicator" requirement for those instruments required for instrument flight?
Is there an Advisory Circular out there dealing with glass cockpits and how they relate to the regulations? Thanks
Define Equivalent
91.503 - (1) A flashlight having at least two size "D" cells, or the equivalent, that is in good working order.
135.159 - (3) A flashlight having at least two size "D" cells or equivalent.
121.549 - (b) Each crewmember shall, on each flight, have readily available for his use a flashlight that is in good working order.
Here they are directly from the regs.....now define "equivalent". I think we can all agree on "good working order".
91.503 - (1) A flashlight having at least two size "D" cells, or the equivalent, that is in good working order.
135.159 - (3) A flashlight having at least two size "D" cells or equivalent.
121.549 - (b) Each crewmember shall, on each flight, have readily available for his use a flashlight that is in good working order.
Here they are directly from the regs.....now define "equivalent". I think we can all agree on "good working order".
the_other_dougreeves
Well Known Member
I won't name any manufacturers here, but for flying, I am fond of the combination of LEDs and CR123 lithium batteries. LEDs never (well, rarely) break and the lithium batteries don't self-discharge. Get a light that has a 2-stage hi/low brightness and a clip so you can connect it to your headset, jacket, etc. Also get a slip on red filter.
This way you will have a bright light for proper pre-flight and a dim light for in-the-cockpit work. Well, I said I wouldn't name manufacturers, but IMHO, the Gold Standard is the Surefire L1. Bright, good low beam, long run time on low, indestructable, lifetime warranty, made in the US, etc. Intuirive switch on the back (push for low, push harder for high. To get constant light, twist for low, twist more for high. To lock-out switch, twist switch back out - no way of activating it in your bag/pocket and draining the batteries).
Down side is the price of the light and the expense of the CR123 batteries. Sure, they last a while, but they're not free (about $1.50 each in bulk).
A more economical way to go is a single AA LED light like the Fenix F1D. Single AA battery, plenty of light on high, good low beam, but 1/3 the price of the Surefire. Fits in the palm of your hand, works well with rechargable NiMiHi batteries. I've had the electronics in one of my Fenix die, but it's still well built.
I always have a backup light of some kind (not just when flying). I don't fly at night unless I'm with an instructor (sport pilot), but it can get pretty dark right at civil twilight and I'd hate to get caught out late without any light in the cockpit. A good small one is the Streamlight Stylus. About the size of a pen. You can get it with a green or blue LED, which makes it better for reading charts than a red LED. Cheap, but AAAA (yes, that's 4-A) batteries are hard to find, although battery life is good.
Mag lights are cheap, but (1) bulbs are fragile, (2) they use batteries quickly and (3) they have one brightness setting. Might be good for a backup.
TODR
This way you will have a bright light for proper pre-flight and a dim light for in-the-cockpit work. Well, I said I wouldn't name manufacturers, but IMHO, the Gold Standard is the Surefire L1. Bright, good low beam, long run time on low, indestructable, lifetime warranty, made in the US, etc. Intuirive switch on the back (push for low, push harder for high. To get constant light, twist for low, twist more for high. To lock-out switch, twist switch back out - no way of activating it in your bag/pocket and draining the batteries).
Down side is the price of the light and the expense of the CR123 batteries. Sure, they last a while, but they're not free (about $1.50 each in bulk).
A more economical way to go is a single AA LED light like the Fenix F1D. Single AA battery, plenty of light on high, good low beam, but 1/3 the price of the Surefire. Fits in the palm of your hand, works well with rechargable NiMiHi batteries. I've had the electronics in one of my Fenix die, but it's still well built.
I always have a backup light of some kind (not just when flying). I don't fly at night unless I'm with an instructor (sport pilot), but it can get pretty dark right at civil twilight and I'd hate to get caught out late without any light in the cockpit. A good small one is the Streamlight Stylus. About the size of a pen. You can get it with a green or blue LED, which makes it better for reading charts than a red LED. Cheap, but AAAA (yes, that's 4-A) batteries are hard to find, although battery life is good.
Mag lights are cheap, but (1) bulbs are fragile, (2) they use batteries quickly and (3) they have one brightness setting. Might be good for a backup.
TODR
Flying Scotsman
Well Known Member
I had to chuckle at the first photo above...the "L1 Digital Lumamax". How can a flashlight be "digital"
Well, okay, I guess it's on or off (or in this case, a tristate device!).
Well, okay, I guess it's on or off (or in this case, a tristate device!).
I had to chuckle at the first photo above...the "L1 Digital Lumamax". How can a flashlight be "digital"
Well, okay, I guess it's on or off (or in this case, a tristate device!).
The LEDs are digitally controlled, or at least the better ones are.
BTW, TODR and anyone else-
in my opinion surefire has been left behind the last couple of years for LED lights, both in price and performance.
For a big blazing light try a fenix T1, for a cockpit light (three levels, strobe) try a fenix L2D
for a headlight, try the petzl tactical, comes with a flip up red lens, light and bright.
I don't know how long these are rated battery wise, but with the leds it is a really long time.
and i know both fenix models put out much more lumens than a d cell maglight, and the petzl one is probably close.
about the only thing good a big ol D mag light is for is tonking(anything, no race specified)
the_other_dougreeves
Well Known Member
Good question!I had to chuckle at the first photo above...the "L1 Digital Lumamax". How can a flashlight be "digital"
The "digital" part is probably from the marketing people, but this light uses a regulator to keep voltage at the LED at a constant voltage. Without it, the voltage will fall off as the batteries get used up.
The Fenix lights are quite good.
TODR
Flying Scotsman
Well Known Member
Hmmmm...well, I guess there's *some* digital logic in terms of the on-off, timeout stuff...but really now...
...a "digital" flashlight?Sound like a big marketing term to me...
In any case...I like the 3 or 4 LED flashlights. Small, bright, long-lasting...and if I ever *need* to use it, presumable I'm going to setting down at the nearest, first opportunity to do so, as I'll have lost all (or most) electrical. That, to me, is either an emergency or one in the making. So I most likely *don't* need 12 hour life or such, but I do want it to work and work well for a decent amount of time.
Hadn't thought of the headlamps for use in a cockpit, but should have...good idea, and I have a few around the house with my camping gear.
terrykohler
Well Known Member
I like to use the calcium carbide mining light that my Grandfather kept clipped to his helmet. Just dump calcium carbide crystals into the bottom, fill the upper chamber with water, attach to my headset, and thats it. To operate, open the valve to let water drip onto the crystals and the resulting reaction generates acetylene gas. Spin the spark wheel and you've got a very bright light that lasts for hours. No burned out batteries to replace and best of all, when I'm done flying, the mini torch makes a great tool to roast bratwurst or take on simple welding chores. The only downside I have found is that my visual scan is reduced when I've got the light on - if I look up, the flame tends to quickly melt the plexi.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
the_other_dougreeves
Well Known Member
Trust me, you really don't want a LED flashlight without regulation. With the regulation circuit, it holds the same brightness for a long time until the batteries are nearly flat. This allows you to get the most out of your batteries, particularly alkalines, where the voltage drops steadily over the life of the battery.Hmmmm...well, I guess there's *some* digital logic in terms of the on-off, timeout stuff...but really now...
The Surefire lights are expensive, no doubt. They are very overbuilt and sturdy. Something like a Fenix will work for / survive 99% of most everyone's needs.
TODR
Read 91.501 , 91.503 applies to large jet powered multiengine airplanes only.
Flying Scotsman
Well Known Member
OK, I'm a software and systems guy, so when it comes to electronics, I'm way out of my depth (I'm *certified* to touch real flight hardware of the very expensive kind, but that doesn't mean I'm dumb enough to do it! I once had a development board blow a couple of capacitors when I just *walked by*
)...but is the regulation circuitry actually *digital*, as in with a processor on FPGA or the like? Why wouldn't it just be a regular, analog electronic circuit?Now I'm curious and very willing to learn more here...like I said, I don't know from nothing when it comes to EEE stuff
