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Setrab oil cooler
- Thread starter Aden Rich
- Start date
Steve Sampson
Well Known Member
Setrab
Smokey/Aden, I am interested to see you talking about the Setrab cooler. I nearly plucked up courage to use one on the -4, but I got a wall of doom and gloom about them. I didnt really believe there would be a problem but without a positive word could not bring myself to go ahead.
VANS standard cooler vastly overcools the oil and I am busy blocking it off. Might be persuaded to change to the Setrab. (Its smaller and lighter) Am I correct in thinking Setrab is what Porsche use?
Does the Rocket community routinely use the Setrab?
Smokey/Aden, I am interested to see you talking about the Setrab cooler. I nearly plucked up courage to use one on the -4, but I got a wall of doom and gloom about them. I didnt really believe there would be a problem but without a positive word could not bring myself to go ahead.
VANS standard cooler vastly overcools the oil and I am busy blocking it off. Might be persuaded to change to the Setrab. (Its smaller and lighter) Am I correct in thinking Setrab is what Porsche use?
Does the Rocket community routinely use the Setrab?
smokyray
Well Known Member
To be or not to be...
Hi Steve,
Yes, the Seltrab is used by Porsche and weighs 1/3 less than the SW. It also has a much higher flow rate than the SW and offers AN fittings. I have always had oil temp issues in both my RV4 and my HR2, mainly due to average year round temps above 27C/80F where I live. My RV4 and my HR2 ran cool CHT's (below 330F) but warm oil (above 200F) but in limits.
The fix on my RV4 was not one, but four things. I replaced my old 6 row SW with a new 7 row niagra, replaced my #6 with #8 lines, replaced the Vernatherm and moved the cooler in front and underneath the left front baffle. Voila' dropped to 185F cruise/200F climb.
My Rocket has a 13 row SW mounted behind the LR baffle with #6 lines. I plan to R&R with a Seltrab and go to #8 lines and replace the Vernatherm. Vernatherms only last 3 years according to Lycoming and make a big difference in cooling if the spring gets weak.
If yours is working well, I would save the pounds for a rainy day, or a Guiness...
Cheers!
Smokey
Hi Steve,
Yes, the Seltrab is used by Porsche and weighs 1/3 less than the SW. It also has a much higher flow rate than the SW and offers AN fittings. I have always had oil temp issues in both my RV4 and my HR2, mainly due to average year round temps above 27C/80F where I live. My RV4 and my HR2 ran cool CHT's (below 330F) but warm oil (above 200F) but in limits.
The fix on my RV4 was not one, but four things. I replaced my old 6 row SW with a new 7 row niagra, replaced my #6 with #8 lines, replaced the Vernatherm and moved the cooler in front and underneath the left front baffle. Voila' dropped to 185F cruise/200F climb.
My Rocket has a 13 row SW mounted behind the LR baffle with #6 lines. I plan to R&R with a Seltrab and go to #8 lines and replace the Vernatherm. Vernatherms only last 3 years according to Lycoming and make a big difference in cooling if the spring gets weak.
If yours is working well, I would save the pounds for a rainy day, or a Guiness...
Cheers!
Smokey
Setrab cooler
Your temp reading must be off!. It's amazing those little coolers work better than the aircraft coolers. I have had several people tell me my temp readings were off because there was no way that tiny cooler could do the job better than what Van's sell for coolers. Well, your numbers are about what everyone else including me has seen by going to this cooler. As long as they get mounted correctly there should be no issues. Van's should start selling these to combat high oil temps in some of their models.
Aden
Your temp reading must be off!
. It's amazing those little coolers work better than the aircraft coolers. I have had several people tell me my temp readings were off because there was no way that tiny cooler could do the job better than what Van's sell for coolers. Well, your numbers are about what everyone else including me has seen by going to this cooler. As long as they get mounted correctly there should be no issues. Van's should start selling these to combat high oil temps in some of their models.Aden
Oil coolers
I would think that the engine you are trying to install in your airplane would need a Setrab oil cooler like the ones we are talking about. Coolers are starting the eternal debates such as primers, tip up -vs-slider, tri-vs-taildragger. I have seen for years people writing in about battling high oil temps and doing all kind of things from mounting them on the fire wall (bad idea) to installing two of them (another bad idea). Both have obvious faults one is more weight due to extra items to mount, the later is that two coolers mean more weight and more complexity routing oil lines all over the place, plus you have twice the chance to have leaks. Then came along these Setrab coolers. They were small, light weight, and inexpensive. Someone tried them on their RV-4 but did not mount a spacer between the ears where the mounting bolts go. He torqued the bolts down tight and went flying. Well he broke the seal on the side walls of the cooler and leaked oil all over his airplane and had to make a emergency landing. Then he got on the internet and proclaimed these coolers to be junk because they are not up to aircraft standards. Well nothing is up to standards if you don't use them correctly. So for a while people were afraid to use the Setrab because of this gent. Well me being a numb skull, I tried it anyway along with a friend of mine on our RV-6's with 180 hp. I was careful about mounting it and I used spacers with a very tight fit making sure to put no stress on the cooler what so ever. It was lighter, had more clearance between the back of the engine and the engine mount. This gave way to easier mounting of oil lines and more room to work on other things in the surrounding area. There is less weight hanging off the baffling as well. The are about 1/3 the price of SW or Harrison. They also work better with less heat exchanging area. My thoughts are that the cooler is not as thick and flows more air through the fins than the SW or Harriison. Every airplane that I have seen them on has claimed 20-30 degrees gain in cooling. Mine on my RV-6 cooled too well. I had to close part of the inlet off in the winter or the temps never got up over 165. Setrabs come in all kinds of sizes but I used the -110 which is a 10 row cooler. The Rocket I had I bought a 13 row cooler for. The 390 should make more heat than the stock 180's and you might want to lean towards the 13 row cooler. You might have to modify
your baffle a bit to fit it in there. The 10 row may have enough capacity, I don't know much about the 390's. I just hate to read about people trying all kinds of other options when faced with cooling issues when the issue lies mostly with the type of cooler they are using. If you want I can e-mail you my installation pictures so you can see what it looks like. It would be very similar to your installation.
I would think that the engine you are trying to install in your airplane would need a Setrab oil cooler like the ones we are talking about. Coolers are starting the eternal debates such as primers, tip up -vs-slider, tri-vs-taildragger. I have seen for years people writing in about battling high oil temps and doing all kind of things from mounting them on the fire wall (bad idea) to installing two of them (another bad idea). Both have obvious faults one is more weight due to extra items to mount, the later is that two coolers mean more weight and more complexity routing oil lines all over the place, plus you have twice the chance to have leaks. Then came along these Setrab coolers. They were small, light weight, and inexpensive. Someone tried them on their RV-4 but did not mount a spacer between the ears where the mounting bolts go. He torqued the bolts down tight and went flying. Well he broke the seal on the side walls of the cooler and leaked oil all over his airplane and had to make a emergency landing. Then he got on the internet and proclaimed these coolers to be junk because they are not up to aircraft standards. Well nothing is up to standards if you don't use them correctly. So for a while people were afraid to use the Setrab because of this gent. Well me being a numb skull, I tried it anyway along with a friend of mine on our RV-6's with 180 hp. I was careful about mounting it and I used spacers with a very tight fit making sure to put no stress on the cooler what so ever. It was lighter, had more clearance between the back of the engine and the engine mount. This gave way to easier mounting of oil lines and more room to work on other things in the surrounding area. There is less weight hanging off the baffling as well. The are about 1/3 the price of SW or Harrison. They also work better with less heat exchanging area. My thoughts are that the cooler is not as thick and flows more air through the fins than the SW or Harriison. Every airplane that I have seen them on has claimed 20-30 degrees gain in cooling. Mine on my RV-6 cooled too well. I had to close part of the inlet off in the winter or the temps never got up over 165. Setrabs come in all kinds of sizes but I used the -110 which is a 10 row cooler. The Rocket I had I bought a 13 row cooler for. The 390 should make more heat than the stock 180's and you might want to lean towards the 13 row cooler. You might have to modify
your baffle a bit to fit it in there. The 10 row may have enough capacity, I don't know much about the 390's. I just hate to read about people trying all kinds of other options when faced with cooling issues when the issue lies mostly with the type of cooler they are using. If you want I can e-mail you my installation pictures so you can see what it looks like. It would be very similar to your installation.
Yes it was interesting last year seeing posts about the SW being WAY better than anything else you could buy. Comparing these and ones like Setrab, Mocal, Earls etc. commonly used on race cars, I just didn't see how. Now we have people who have tested them back to back and found out the conjecture was incorrect. I've been using a similar unit for 4 years on my turbo engine which is pretty hard on the oil. Works just fine.
I've said it many times before, I'll take flight test data any day over speculation.
Good to see there is a lower cost better solution available. That doesn't seem to happen much in aviation.
I've said it many times before, I'll take flight test data any day over speculation.
Good to see there is a lower cost better solution available. That doesn't seem to happen much in aviation.
Pressure rating?
These Setrab coolers seem to perform well and are reasonably priced. I have been on the fence, mainly due to the max press rating of 145 psi.
Have "heard" (no engine expert here) that Lycoming can surge high oil pressures at start up 150+ . Does anyone know the validity of such claims?
These Setrab coolers seem to perform well and are reasonably priced. I have been on the fence, mainly due to the max press rating of 145 psi.
Have "heard" (no engine expert here) that Lycoming can surge high oil pressures at start up 150+ . Does anyone know the validity of such claims?
Steve Sampson
Well Known Member
Do you know what the pressure rating of the ones VANS sells is?
smokyray
Well Known Member
Under Pressure...
Wade/Steve,
The SW oil cooler is listed at a max of 250 PSI. Most shops only immersion test them to 180 PSI, the FAA requirement. Stock cars which use the Setrab cooler run 100 PSI. One way to test would be to call them and ask what pressure it has been "tested" to. My guess is they don't want it used to cool hydraulics which require 2850-3250 psi, therefore the limit.
Personally I have no worries installing a Setrab or Mocal Race car cooler on my Rocket.
Smokey
HR2
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/1544/Mocal_235_Matrix_Oil_Coolers
Popular Stock car cooler tested to 170 PSI
http://www.rvproject.com/20040519.html
Nice article by Dan Checkoway
Wade/Steve,
The SW oil cooler is listed at a max of 250 PSI. Most shops only immersion test them to 180 PSI, the FAA requirement. Stock cars which use the Setrab cooler run 100 PSI. One way to test would be to call them and ask what pressure it has been "tested" to. My guess is they don't want it used to cool hydraulics which require 2850-3250 psi, therefore the limit.
Personally I have no worries installing a Setrab or Mocal Race car cooler on my Rocket.
Smokey
HR2
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/1544/Mocal_235_Matrix_Oil_Coolers
Popular Stock car cooler tested to 170 PSI
http://www.rvproject.com/20040519.html
Nice article by Dan Checkoway
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Oil pressure on startup
I don't know if I would worry about that issue. You have a pressure relief valve on the side of the your engine case that basically dumps oil back down into the oil pan. It is a ball and spring type arrangement. This is what you play with when your are first running your engine in and wanting to set the oil pressure in the 60-80 psi range depending on what weight of oil you use. The other issue is that your Vernatherm is open on start up, meaning it is not sending oil to your cooler. When the oil temps get near the Vernatherms setpoint, it expands and closes off a passage diverting your oil to the cooler. If I am thinking correctly, on startups your oil should not be going to the cooler. If this is not correct, someone please chime in and let us know what is really happening here.
Thanks, Aden.
I don't know if I would worry about that issue. You have a pressure relief valve on the side of the your engine case that basically dumps oil back down into the oil pan. It is a ball and spring type arrangement. This is what you play with when your are first running your engine in and wanting to set the oil pressure in the 60-80 psi range depending on what weight of oil you use. The other issue is that your Vernatherm is open on start up, meaning it is not sending oil to your cooler. When the oil temps get near the Vernatherms setpoint, it expands and closes off a passage diverting your oil to the cooler. If I am thinking correctly, on startups your oil should not be going to the cooler. If this is not correct, someone please chime in and let us know what is really happening here.
Thanks, Aden.
I found this on a site describing Mocal oil coolers, I'm guessing Setrab would be similar. The same supplier (Thinkauto) sells Setrab but doesn't provide the same info.
Pete
"Maximum working pressure on the standard range of coolers is 10 bar (150psi)although each cooler is tested to11.5 bar (170psi) this is adequate for all but the most arduous motoring applications, however some customers prefer a higher pressure rating, for instance where the pressure by pass valve does not provide enough protection as in high rpm in cold start up conditions or on dry sump installations.
We have introduced a heavy duty (HD), 12bar (180psi)working pressure, version of the cooler which is dimensionally similar but has aluminium castings between the plates, on the standard cooler this is the weakest point where they are unsupported by fins or tubulators, There is also thicker material in some areas. These coolers are about 18% heavier. Because of their construction they are easier to build in the bigger sizes hence a cheaper price."
Pete
"Maximum working pressure on the standard range of coolers is 10 bar (150psi)although each cooler is tested to11.5 bar (170psi) this is adequate for all but the most arduous motoring applications, however some customers prefer a higher pressure rating, for instance where the pressure by pass valve does not provide enough protection as in high rpm in cold start up conditions or on dry sump installations.
We have introduced a heavy duty (HD), 12bar (180psi)working pressure, version of the cooler which is dimensionally similar but has aluminium castings between the plates, on the standard cooler this is the weakest point where they are unsupported by fins or tubulators, There is also thicker material in some areas. These coolers are about 18% heavier. Because of their construction they are easier to build in the bigger sizes hence a cheaper price."
Bubblehead
Well Known Member
Source for Setrab oil coolers?
I'm rebuilding the baffles on my IO-360 180 hp. The old oil cooler has worked fine, but is a little dinged up and the mounting flanges are bent a little from the spacers not fitting just right.
Do you have a source you can recommend for the Setrab -110 cooler?
Thanks,
John
I'm rebuilding the baffles on my IO-360 180 hp. The old oil cooler has worked fine, but is a little dinged up and the mounting flanges are bent a little from the spacers not fitting just right.
Do you have a source you can recommend for the Setrab -110 cooler?
Thanks,
John
Pete
Thanks for the post. I did some digging and the Setrab is a clone of the Mocal and they are considered interchangable. So, I am going to go with the Mocal HD as the added psi max gives me a warmer fuzzy.
Thanks guys for the feedback. Very happy not to pay $500 for a SW.
Thanks for the post. I did some digging and the Setrab is a clone of the Mocal and they are considered interchangable. So, I am going to go with the Mocal HD as the added psi max gives me a warmer fuzzy.
Thanks guys for the feedback. Very happy not to pay $500 for a SW.
