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RV-12/Sport Pilot Medical Requirements

the_other_dougreeves

Well Known Member
The worst offenders, in my opinion, are the "can't get my medical, looks like it's LSA for me" posters. Unless I'm mistaken, if you have a good faith belief that you wouldn't pass a medical exam, you need to get a medical exam before you can fly on an LSA (or PPL) ticket. In spite of this, the LSA ticket seems to be thought of as the ex-PPL category.
No, this is not correct. On a SP ticket (or with a PP and expired medical), you only need to self-certify that you can safely complete the flight; flying as a SP has nothing to do with the FAA requirements for third-class medicals. The standard for PPs is different - they must certify that they have no conditions that would prohibit them from getting a medical. The details of this have been discussed at length before.

There are certainly people who fly on SP certificates that should not be flying. The same is true of other pilots - PP through ATPs - plenty of people will bend and break the rules. One only needs to watch the headlines to see examples of this. The fact that people do not play by the rules is not restricted to sport pilots. Remember that the rules are different for SP and PP.

Pilots of liders and motorgliders have never required medical certificates, and we have flown with those pilots for many, many years.

TODR
 
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No, this is not correct. On a SP ticket (or with a PP and expired medical), you only need to self-certify that you can safely complete the flight; flying as a SP has nothing to do with the FAA requirements for third-class medicals. The standard for PPs is different - they must certify that they have no conditions that would prohibit them from getting a medical. The details of this have been discussed at length before.

There are certainly people who fly on SP certificates that should not be flying. The same is true of other pilots - PP through ATPs - plenty of people will bend and break the rules. One only needs to watch the headlines to see examples of this. The fact that people do not play by the rules is not restricted to sport pilots. Remember that the rules are different for SP and PP.

Pilots of liders and motorgliders have never required medical certificates, and we have flown with those pilots for many, many years.

TODR

Yes, the topic has been discussed at length, but clearly wasn't resolved in that thread. I find myself more in Bob Collins camp than yours, I must say. I think it simply comes down to the interpretation of a very vague regulation. Your statement that "you only need to self-certify that you can safely complete the flight" seems to parse the regulation language more liberally than I believe is supported. The reg (as quoted in your post) is:

"(c) Operations requiring either a medical certificate or U.S. driver?s license.
...
(2) A person using a current and valid U.S. driver?s license to meet the requirements of this paragraph must?
(i) Comply with each restriction and limitation imposed by that person?s
U.S. driver?s license and any judicial or administrative order applying to the
operation of a motor vehicle;
(ii) Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman
medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if
the person has applied for a medical certificate);
(iii) Not have had his or her most recently issued medical certificate (if the
person has held a medical certificate) suspended or revoked or most recent
Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate withdrawn; and
(iv) Not know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would
make that person unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner."

The language in (iv) does not explicitly refer to "completing the flight", but to operation in general. But the major flaw in your argument from where I sit is the explicit reference to third-class medicals in (ii) and (iii). The implication of those subsections is that a "medical condition that would make that person unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner" is concurrent with the medical concerns in a third-class medical.

Ironically, a sport pilot that has never held a PP ticket may have less of a reason to know that a medical condition makes him unable to fly safely, simply because he has never been through the exam process.

Ultimately, I think this language will be clarified. It will either fall towards "driver's license = medical cert" or "you must get a third class medical". Perhaps they will make it less onerous, like a four-year duration, or a less-stringent exam. Or maybe not. But the more folks use the category as a last resort for ailing pilots, the more likely it is that this benefit will be seen as a loophole and "fixed".

Surely, though, "flying as a SP has nothing to do with the FAA requirements for third-class medicals. " is just your opinion. Considering that the same subdivision mentions third-class medicals in two of four sub-parts, I think that more clarification will be needed before such a statement can be made definitively.
 
Surely, though, "flying as a SP has nothing to do with the FAA requirements for third-class medicals. " is just your opinion. Considering that the same subdivision mentions third-class medicals in two of four sub-parts, I think that more clarification will be needed before such a statement can be made definitively.
Look, show me the FAR where someone flying as a SP must meet the requirements of the third class medical and I'll agree. The only references to medicals in this FAR are that (1) you can't have had your medical revoked or (2) been found ineligible for one. If you have had your medical revoked or been officially found ineligible for one, you're not flying as a SP, how could you? Thus, I maintain that flying as a SP has nothing to do with qualifying for a third-class medical. It comes down to having a DL and "not know[ing] or have[ing] reason to know of any medical condition that would make that person unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner."

The implication of those subsections is that a "medical condition that would make that person unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner" is concurrent with the medical concerns in a third-class medical.
The rule does not explicitly say this. If the FAA meant that SPs needed to qualify for a third-class medical in order to fly, they would have written the rule to say exactly that. There are clearly different requirements for operations requiring medical certificates and those that don't. The FAA writes the rules and we as pilots are responsible for following the rules. If the rules are ambiguous, we turn to the rulemaking package to try and understand the FAA's intent. I submit that the rule is clear. Again, if the FAA wanted SP to meet all the third-class medical requirements, they would have required it in the rule.

Also note that this is not a new issue - glider pilots have been flying without medicals for many years, often at heights greater than 10,000 MSL, doing acro and in gliders that can weigh 1300lb. Why all the attention now?

Sorry to beat a maybe-dead horse, but I keep having people tell me that the rule requires SPs to meet all the requirements for third-class medicals. It doesn't.

TODR
 
Considering that the same subdivision mentions third-class medicals in two of four sub-parts, I think that more clarification will be needed before such a statement can be made definitively.

Federal Register / Vol. 69, No. 143 / Tuesday, July 27, 2004

FAA response to comments that favored extending sport pilot medical provisions to other pilots

Question:
What ?known medical conditions? would prevent a person from exercising sport pilot privileges?

Response: The FAA has not established a list of disqualifying medical conditions under ?61.53. That could prevent a person from relying on a driver?s license as the sole evidence of medical qualification.

If an individual chooses to medically qualify for light-sport aircraft operations using a current and valid U.S. driver?s license? the determination as to whether a pilot has a medical condition that would make him or her unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner is the sole responsibility of the pilot. The ability to certify no known medical conditions that would prohibit the safe operation of an aircraft is a matter about which a pilot should consult his or her personal physician.
 
Since a lot of medical stuff got mixed into the posts about the Lycoming IO-233, I've started a new thread to continue our debate! :D

According to EAA's sportpilot.org website, "there is no regulation that requires a sport pilot to ground themselves just because they feel they may not be able to pass an FAA medical examination."

You can read all the details here:

http://www.sportpilot.org/questions/afmviewfaq.asp?faqid=96
 
A word of explination

Since a lot of medical stuff got mixed into the posts about the Lycoming IO-233, I've started a new thread to continue our debate! :D

According to EAA's sportpilot.org website, "there is no regulation that requires a sport pilot to ground themselves just because they feel they may not be able to pass an FAA medical examination."

You can read all the details here:

http://www.sportpilot.org/questions/afmviewfaq.asp?faqid=96

A funny thing that happens when moving posts is that they show up in chronological order of initial posting.

So, even though the above quoted post is the actual first post, (the start of this thread), when I moved the older stuff over, they went ahead of the thread start.

Hope this makes sense-------:confused:
 
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Gotta love the FAA:

From peterk's link:
You should consult your private physician to determine whether you have a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of sport piloting duties.

From the FAA's "Medical Certification Questions and Answers":

"
If my own physician thinks I?m okay to fly,
why do you have a problem with me?​
MOST physicians see their role as one of helping their patients by preventing
medical problems when possible and treating medical problems if they do occur.
This treatment may actually be a cure or it may be something that diminishes
the impact of the medical condition on the person?s daily life.
There are many conditions that can be cured, such as appendicitis, gall bladder disease, and pneumonia. There are other conditions that can be treated but are not cured, such as high blood pressure, heart disease, and diabetes.
In the case of this latter group, when a physician has done all that is possible
to control the disease, the patient may be told that participation in any
activity, including flying, is okay. To the treating physician, this means that
there is nothing more to be done for the disease, and that activity will not
make the disease worse.
Unfortunately, the treating physician does not always realize that the medical
condition could make the activity worse (by making it less safe due to
the medical condition). In addition, many physicians only fly as passengers
on commercial aircraft. They do not realize the potential problems inherent
in piloting aircraft, which may require more from the pilot than his or her
medical condition will allow."


That aside, I am happy to admit that my prior rant was wrong. I apologize for helping to derail the prior thread. TODR seems to have nailed the current state of the regs, although I totally fail to understand why the regs read the way that they do...
 
...although I totally fail to understand why the regs read the way that they do...
I am in agreement with you there - the rules don't make sense the way they are. Two pilots can have the same condition, one having failed their medical and grounded, and the other never applied for the medical and flying happily as a SP. I suppose I'd rather have the FAA change the rules to basically eliminate the third-class medical for SP and PP, making the "drivers license medical" a reality, but who knows if that will happen.

As for why the rules are that way, I don't know. I don't think the FAA's lawyers would allow them to promulgate a rule that allows pilots who have failed a medical to fly, but the Feds didn't want to require a third class medical for SPs. Hence the compromise. It's a bit like the DoD's "don't ask, don't tell", and has been about as popular (which is to say not at all). Still, for those who have failed medicals, it stinks.

It is also a disincentive for those who fly on SP tickets to upgrade to PP or PP-IFR if they have any questions about their ability to get a medical. If they apply for and then fail the medical, they're grounded. What a great incentive to improve your skills as a pilot, the possibility of getting grounded!

It's good to have these discussions in the open. SP needs it to gain credibility.

TODR
 
My recollection of the SP rules was that the EAA and FAA had worked out all the details in advance, and that everything was pretty smooth, and pretty much what the EAA was asking for.

Then, when actually published------NPRM, not the final, I believe, they had changed a lot of the medical section. Main change was addition of the verbiage about having failed a medical equaling a disqualification for SP.

Hopefully someone out there has a bit sharper memory and can fill in the blanks.

Bottom line, a deal was made, then the Feds unilaterally changed things.
 
Don't get checked by the FAA

My reading is that you cannot exercise SP privileges if you know you have a condition which would compromise the safety of the flight. This leaves it rightfully to your own judgment, which you may want to include your own doctor in, or not.

Once an ME says you are not fit, that becomes the legal reality of your situation.

Its stupid, like most things controlled by a government bureaucracy. There is as much chance of a person with heath problems having an issue on the freeway at 70mph and taking out several other cars in the process. It just doesn't happen.

Cars don't crash because of driver health problems and neither do airplanes crash due to them.

Has it happened? Of course, but the probability is very low. I would argue that the risk to others is much greater in a car than in an airplane. Also, at least for flying the pilot has to prove he can still fly the airplane every two years.

Of all the things the FAA could involve themselves in to improve safety, pilot health may be the least important.

Unfortunately, at 51 I'm over the hill in terms of the new relaxation on medical frequency. The truth is that my health is not as good as it was when I learned to fly at 33. None of my health issues affect my flying though.

I am not as good at the actual physical aspects of flying the airplane as I was when I was younger. Yet, I am a better pilot because I have better judgment now. Now I ground myself or limit the difficulty of my flying based on physiological factors. When I was younger I just assumed I should be capable of doing it, therefore I did it.

At some point in my hopefully far distant future my physical/mental limitations will force me to give up IFR flying, then night flying, and eventually all flying. The changes that will force that will probably not be detectable by an ME, but I'll know. Hopefully I'll have the good judgment to know when its time to sell the airplane.

Just like some elderly people will cling to their cars far past the time when they should be taking a bus, I have to imagine the same is true of some pilots. That is solvable without a rectal exam.

In my view, a far better alternative to the medical is to require aging pilots to get more frequent flight reviews. I don't want to propose ages & frequencies in this post, but I think it is safe to say that an 80 year old pilot should be reviewed more frequently than a 50 year old pilot.
 
The truth is that my health is not as good as it was when I learned to fly at 33. None of my health issues affect my flying though.

I am not as good at the actual physical aspects of flying the airplane as I was when I was younger. Yet, I am a better pilot because I have better judgment now. Now I ground myself or limit the difficulty of my flying based on physiological factors. When I was younger I just assumed I should be capable of doing it, therefore I did it.

Steve. Thanks for putting this into words that we can all relate to.

Seems obvious when read like this, too bad the Feds cant see it this way.
 
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