Van's Air Force
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Good beginner build?
- Thread starter RV-3Bravo
- Start date
Rabidsnipe
Active Member
I think I'm somewhat in your shoes. A 3 seems like a great inexpensive plane to get up in the air in. But from what I've read, it would be difficult for a 1st timer.
well compared to newer kits the 3 will be harder to build but keep in mind that all the early builders built this kind of kit. i think the first predrilled skins did not even start appearing till the 7, 8 and 9 kits. unless i am mistaken all the 4s and 6s you see were built in much the same way as the 3. even till recently the 8 had to be jigged. sure there are problems with plans but you are on here and there are others who have gone before to help. this is what i keep telling myself anyway.
leon carpenter
rv3 preview plans
leon carpenter
rv3 preview plans
Kevin Horton
Well Known Member
A friend built an RV-3 as his first project. He had to use some ingenuity to figure out what to do in some places, but he succeeded in building a very nice aircraft. As near as I can tell, an RV-3 is a very good project for a new builder, as long as the builder has realistic expectations. Understand that the plans and instructions leave a bit more for the builder to interpret, nothing is prepunched, and there are probably not any other local RV-3 builders to lean on for help.
If you are mechanically inclined, and a problem solver, you would probably be very happy with the project, as long as you never visit a builder of one of the new prepunched projects that almost assemble themselves.
If you are mechanically inclined, and a problem solver, you would probably be very happy with the project, as long as you never visit a builder of one of the new prepunched projects that almost assemble themselves.
FredMagare
Well Known Member
I started with a -6 tail (pre-punched skins only) while not excessively difficult it required a couple of straight jigs to ensure proper alignment. I moved up to a -9A and it goes together quickly with no jigs necessary! Are you looking to build or fly as the main priority? If your goal is to get an airplane to fly, I would think one of the pre-punched kits might lend itself to your learning curve with fewer "mistakes" but as previously pointed out, all RV builders started with kits like the -3/-4. I'm sure you can build a -3 with little problem! (But, uh, "frustration" is inherent in ALL the kits. 
)
Good luck.
)Good luck.
Tony Spicer
Well Known Member
My experience is that Kevin's comment hits the nail right on the head. I chose the -3 because it's the best yank and bank RV available. If that's your mission, go for it!
Tony
randylervold
moderator
The simple answer is no, not a good project for a first timer. Here are some comments from my web site...
RVator, can't remember which issue but it was last fall, further comments there.
You're thinking the right thoughts though, you don't want to start a project that will end in frustration. IMHO there's a high probablility of that for a first time builder attempting a -3 UNLESS you have ready access to a previous RV builder.
I don't mean to sound negative, just realistic.
Thinking of building one?
I've talked with many folks who understand the attraction to the RV-3 and are interested in building one themselves. Frankly, this is not a project for everyone. Early Van's kits were not CAD designed there are no holes, no prepunching whatsoever. Each line of rivets must be drawn out and drilled as specified in the plans and each skin must be trimmed usually on three sides. I have made further comments on some of the challenges involved in the top section of the Airframe construction page.
Van's newer kits are so sophisticated by comparison that most builders would be better off starting there unless they have someone close by to help who has built an RV-3 or RV-4 (very similar). I don't mean to discourage anyone, but building any aircraft is a significant undertaking and you want to have the best possible chance of finishing it. The completion rate on the earlier kits was lower, there's a reason for that. If you're considering an RV-3 project please consider all this carefully. I'd be happy to provide what counsel I can, contact me directly and let's talk.
Prior to starting the project I was told by many (including Van's!) that there are occasional errors in the manual and plans. Yes, I've found quite a few, but if you're a second time builder they are fairly easy to spot and work around. Some of the errors are really parts reference errors where the manual describes a part inaccurately since it's been superceded at some point over the years with an RV-4 part and the manual/plans weren't updated. This is not that much of a problem. Then sometimes the manual describes fabricating a part that is now already made for you, a pleasant surprise but there aren't very many of these. The omissions however are the most challenging. The drawings are not as detailed as the newer kits and may not show how parts fit together. This requires the builder to guess, or by extrapolating from knows data points, which isn't always possible. It makes the building process a significant mental workout and very challenging. Again, this is mitigated if you've built any RV already because you have a pretty good idea what to expect. Bottom line, laying out the rivet lines is not the most time consuming part, the increased level of part trimming and fabrication is. After a while, you get used to it however, and the fact that it's a physically smaller aircraft with an accordingly lower parts count works in the builder's favor. Second time builders won't have too much problem, a first time builder would. If you are thinking of building an RV-3 consider all this and my other comments here.
I also wrote an overview of the experience for the Van's newer kits are so sophisticated by comparison that most builders would be better off starting there unless they have someone close by to help who has built an RV-3 or RV-4 (very similar). I don't mean to discourage anyone, but building any aircraft is a significant undertaking and you want to have the best possible chance of finishing it. The completion rate on the earlier kits was lower, there's a reason for that. If you're considering an RV-3 project please consider all this carefully. I'd be happy to provide what counsel I can, contact me directly and let's talk.
Prior to starting the project I was told by many (including Van's!) that there are occasional errors in the manual and plans. Yes, I've found quite a few, but if you're a second time builder they are fairly easy to spot and work around. Some of the errors are really parts reference errors where the manual describes a part inaccurately since it's been superceded at some point over the years with an RV-4 part and the manual/plans weren't updated. This is not that much of a problem. Then sometimes the manual describes fabricating a part that is now already made for you, a pleasant surprise but there aren't very many of these. The omissions however are the most challenging. The drawings are not as detailed as the newer kits and may not show how parts fit together. This requires the builder to guess, or by extrapolating from knows data points, which isn't always possible. It makes the building process a significant mental workout and very challenging. Again, this is mitigated if you've built any RV already because you have a pretty good idea what to expect. Bottom line, laying out the rivet lines is not the most time consuming part, the increased level of part trimming and fabrication is. After a while, you get used to it however, and the fact that it's a physically smaller aircraft with an accordingly lower parts count works in the builder's favor. Second time builders won't have too much problem, a first time builder would. If you are thinking of building an RV-3 consider all this and my other comments here.
RVator, can't remember which issue but it was last fall, further comments there.
You're thinking the right thoughts though, you don't want to start a project that will end in frustration. IMHO there's a high probablility of that for a first time builder attempting a -3 UNLESS you have ready access to a previous RV builder.
I don't mean to sound negative, just realistic.
rph142
Well Known Member
I'm a first time builder working on a 3 and I can say its not too tough for anyone who is mechanically inclined to build. It IS going to be more frustrating at times because the plans DO leave more to the imagination. There are times(only a few) when the plans are flat out wrong on certain pages. The rudder pedal brackets are a great example. The rudder pedals have been changed over time while only half of the plans have changed. I tripped over this one and as a result had to have my pedals cut and re-welded..no big deal, but it was really frustrating when I found the correct locations drawn on a different page. Building a 3 requires you to read the plans(which are written like a story not a manual) up to several pages in advance of the step you are working on. This is because you need to understand the big picture before you install anything. Again, this isnt a big deal, I find in more rewarding. I tried to document most of the mistakes I made on my website....pictures really are worth a thousand words..and possibly dollars on this plane.
For the 3 builders that are reading, I think it would be a great idea for everyone to create a list of errors they found in the plans. We might want to post them in on this site or a blog attached to someone else's site(im looking in your direction Randy)
Good luck with your decision.
For the 3 builders that are reading, I think it would be a great idea for everyone to create a list of errors they found in the plans. We might want to post them in on this site or a blog attached to someone else's site(im looking in your direction Randy
) Good luck with your decision.
I'm building a -3, and its my first kit but my fifth airplane. The first four were scratch built. I have the empennage done, working on the fuse with quick-build wings.
Ditto comments from others on the plans and instructions and there is a mixture of old and new parts, some of the welded stuff is -4 and oversize.
Every dimension, instruction and supplied part must be verified. I had issues with missing parts and back ordered parts which took 5 weeks to arrive.
Its like building from scratch mentally and someone else has supplied the parts, but they don't always fit(the firewall/longeron bkts come to mind !).
I don't regret building a -3 so far, the horsepower per pound ratio will be very near the Pitts I had and among other things it will go faster and farther. There is also "coolness" to building it because of the challenges but I would have to recommend seriously looking at an -8 and put an 0-320 with a F/P prop if you want to keep the cost down. The kit costs more but the finished product will be worth twice what a -3 would.
My $ 0.02
I agree with Rob on tracking the "gotchas" and I'm making notes as I go.
Mike
Ditto comments from others on the plans and instructions and there is a mixture of old and new parts, some of the welded stuff is -4 and oversize.
Every dimension, instruction and supplied part must be verified. I had issues with missing parts and back ordered parts which took 5 weeks to arrive.
Its like building from scratch mentally and someone else has supplied the parts, but they don't always fit(the firewall/longeron bkts come to mind !).
I don't regret building a -3 so far, the horsepower per pound ratio will be very near the Pitts I had and among other things it will go faster and farther. There is also "coolness" to building it because of the challenges but I would have to recommend seriously looking at an -8 and put an 0-320 with a F/P prop if you want to keep the cost down. The kit costs more but the finished product will be worth twice what a -3 would.
My $ 0.02
I agree with Rob on tracking the "gotchas" and I'm making notes as I go.
Mike
randylervold
moderator
For the 3 builders that are reading, I think it would be a great idea for everyone to create a list of errors they found in the plans. We might want to post them in on this site or a blog attached to someone else's site(im looking in your direction Randy
Tony Partain came over once he got all of his plans and we went through both our manuals and plans one page at a time and copied my notes over. He told me he's putting together a spreadsheet type index of all the errors, both in the manual and on the plans. I told him I'd help with it and of course post it for access by all. Tony, how ya coming with that?
I built 2 RV3s, both slow build kits. First one as a newbie. Both were a 4 year project for me. I'm guessing the quick build wing will subtract 6 or 8 months, others can verify. Its doable for a newbie, very rewarding but there are faster ways to get in the air in an RV.
Tom
Tom
Mario Pons
Member
First Project.
Hello, this is a other side of Ocean opinion.
Well, I think that the 3 is not a good first project for a pilot if he is only pilot. I explain, the builder, in this model, I think must know before how is ?inside? a plane. Many pilots dont know almost anything about the birds they fly and, for my surprise, are not interested to learn.
My personal experience has been working with my father in my free time. He is now retired, but his fifty years aviation mecanich are very helpfull to me.
The no CAD plans are sometimes discorageus and a general idea about the plane is absolutally necesary. And for the european market perhaps the metric sistem would be better. Off course I work with inches and fractions but is not familiar to me.
Saludos.
Mario.
Hello, this is a other side of Ocean opinion.
Well, I think that the 3 is not a good first project for a pilot if he is only pilot. I explain, the builder, in this model, I think must know before how is ?inside? a plane. Many pilots dont know almost anything about the birds they fly and, for my surprise, are not interested to learn.
My personal experience has been working with my father in my free time. He is now retired, but his fifty years aviation mecanich are very helpfull to me.
The no CAD plans are sometimes discorageus and a general idea about the plane is absolutally necesary. And for the european market perhaps the metric sistem would be better. Off course I work with inches and fractions but is not familiar to me.
Saludos.
Mario.
JonJay
Well Known Member
You will get frustrated regardless
All of the RV's, regardless of model, have their frustrating elements. I think it is a relative thing and the 3 is more frustrating than my 6, which had mostly prepunched skins but not matched drilled. No doubt it will be a lot more frustrating than the new 7,8,9, and 10 kits. However, it is still doable,as demonstrated by many who have done it as first time builders. It is just plain hard, which is part of the appeal.
You will learn quickly if you are cut out for building, or not, as evidenced by all of the empenage kits that are constantly for sale.
Dont buy any kit as a cheap and easy way to get in the air. They are far from that. You must love the build or your partial project will end up on Barnstormers like so many before it. I would not recommend the 3 for a first time builder unless you have grit and determination.
All of the RV's, regardless of model, have their frustrating elements. I think it is a relative thing and the 3 is more frustrating than my 6, which had mostly prepunched skins but not matched drilled. No doubt it will be a lot more frustrating than the new 7,8,9, and 10 kits. However, it is still doable,as demonstrated by many who have done it as first time builders. It is just plain hard, which is part of the appeal.
You will learn quickly if you are cut out for building, or not, as evidenced by all of the empenage kits that are constantly for sale.
Dont buy any kit as a cheap and easy way to get in the air. They are far from that. You must love the build or your partial project will end up on Barnstormers like so many before it. I would not recommend the 3 for a first time builder unless you have grit and determination.
randylervold
moderator
Well put Jon!
Richard L Bentley
Member
Randy has it right. If you have not built or don't have a builder close by don't try a -3. It will be an exercise in a major frustration.. Good luck.. RB
Richard L Bentley
Member
Hi Randy/ Its finally done..RB
