RE:Lets Paint

RE:Lets Paint

I have checked the archives and have found a great amount of useful painting ideas/tips/tech. .....Thanks ........... I am still sold on the AFS water borne paint system. I used their one part polyurethane for my primer on most of the interior an sub interior parts.......once dry and cured it was tough and resistent to scratching. Easy clean up/safe/ .

Now for the question or two or three.......ok it ended up at 4

1. For those that have used AFS Two Part System what advice/tips/tech would you suggest?

2. How has your paint job stood up under real world conditions?

3. Would you use AFS again as your paint of choice.

4. Choice of compressor/gun used

Thanks in advance for you help..........

Frank @ SGU & 1L8 ,,,,,,,........last 100000000000000000 details

I'm not crazy about AFS

Prior to this project I had no experience spraying paint - except rattle cans. I started off using AFS primer so decided to try their 2 part on my interior. I had real issues with the 2 part (3 part if you count thinning with water) paint.

I mixed in small batches (a few oz's) but kept having a problem with the paint coagulating before I could get it all sprayed. I threw out as much as I used and had to clean the spray gun after every batch that I sprayed because it got clogged also.

I was as precise as I could be mixing it and found that if I used too little catalyst it never set hard.

I swore never to use the stuff again and bought some Nason to finish the job and do some touch up. The Nason was much easier to use and get a good finish plus it seems to be much tougher.

BTW. I also got some free expired AZKO primer. Once I used that, I never went back to the AFS primer either.

Rick

Thanks for the info......i didn't use the two part primer because the original owners of AFS Paul and Tammy said to just shoot the one part finish as a primer coat/top coat

Frank @ SGU

Rick_A said:

Prior to this project I had no experience spraying paint - except rattle cans. I started off using AFS primer so decided to try their 2 part on my interior. I had real issues with the 2 part (3 part if you count thinning with water) paint.

I mixed in small batches (a few oz's) but kept having a problem with the paint coagulating before I could get it all sprayed. I threw out as much as I used and had to clean the spray gun after every batch that I sprayed because it got clogged also.

I was as precise as I could be mixing it and found that if I used too little catalyst it never set hard.

I swore never to use the stuff again and bought some Nason to finish the job and do some touch up. The Nason was much easier to use and get a good finish plus it seems to be much tougher.

BTW. I also got some free expired AZKO primer. Once I used that, I never went back to the AFS primer either.

Click to expand...

AFS paint

Call Dan Stewart (http://www.stewartsystems.aero/) for a free DVD on how to paint with their system. I haven't painted yet, but since I'm building in my basement, I'm going to give AFS a try...

Clarification: Stewart Systems bought out Aircraft Finishing Systems (AFS) and is a waterborne paint. It is non-flamable/non-explosive so it is much safer to use than conventional paints. Easy clean up with water.

AFS paint experience

I painted my plane with AFS in my garage. Here it is at the airport, all assembled: http://www.wideopenwest.com/~glaesers/RV7A/RV7A_index.htm
The white is AFS, the blue is Imron (see below).

I used a DeVilbiss HVLP gun with a 1.3mm nozzle. I have a Kobalt air compressor from Lowe's with a 30 gal tank, and I used an inline air/water separator (from Harbor Freight) as well as a small separator attached to the gun. My compressor ran a lot when painting, and I had to watch my pressure when doing any large areas.

A couple of lessons learned:
1) Do not wet sand the one part primer. It can cause it to bubble-up. The bubbles smooth out when it dries, but it is very disconcerting when it happens. The cured primer is also easily removed with solvents, so be careful. I used their primer on all the parts I primed (wing ribs, fuselage frames, anything not alclad...) and loved it. I still need to paint my cowl and gear fairings, and I plan to use an epoxy primer to see the difference.
2) If you are considering blue as a primary color, all of the AFS blue colors are very translucent. My tail is all blue (not shown in the picture referenced above). I initially used the AFS Royal Blue on the HS, but despite multiple attempts, I was not able to get even looking coverage. I am NOT a painter, so an experienced painter would probably be able to make it work. In the garage, under artificlal light it looked good, but out in natural light it was noticeably uneven. For small trim areas, it would be just fine. I ended up switching to IMRON for the blue, because I had my heart set on that color.

This was my first experience with painting so my paint job has a lot of orange peel on both the AFS and Imron, but I got better as I went along. The technique for AFS is totally different than Imron. If you don't have it already, ask AFS for their video on CD.

As you can see in the picture, I'm not flying yet, so I can't comment on the durability. I expect it to be no different than any other polyurethane paint.

Hope that helps.

What color white did you use?

Thanks for your comments Dennis. I do have a couple of questions. What color white did you use? Did you paint the original Stewart Blue over a white base coat or directly onto the primer? I asked the second questions because I have heard that some colors, like the yellow I plan to use, do not cover well and need to be painted over a base of white paint.

Thanks for your response.

SW Alternitive

If you're looking at AFS due to the water-based issue, why not use Sherwinn Williams Jet Flex Water Based paint. It's good for interior but have no clue how it would work for exterior.

Frank Smidler said:

Thanks for your comments Dennis. I do have a couple of questions. What color white did you use? Did you paint the original Stewart Blue over a white base coat or directly onto the primer? I asked the second questions because I have heard that some colors, like the yellow I plan to use, do not cover well and need to be painted over a base of white paint.

Click to expand...

FWIW, I painted a good portion of my 6A yellow. However the paint is Acrylic Urethane (Sherwin Williams Genesis). The yellow has less pigment and took up to six coats in places. That doesn't mean it ends up thicker though. Just takes a lot of coats to cover; and this is over a white primer.

The grays & whites were two coats at most, and black was usually one. Since the top of the plane is yellow, I actually ran that paint about 4" down into where the gray would be. The gray easily covers the yellow on the first pass of the spray gun.

I have a lower yellow stripe in the field of gray, which was just tape placed over the yellow, while painting the gray. Pic included.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4508/dsc05247reducedde8.jpg

Last week a Stewart Systems rep came to our builder's group and gave a talk. According to him, the right gun (HVLP, not HF), the right pressure, 20 PSI, the right temp (70+) and humidity are very important. Not all cheap guns will spray at 20 PSI, especially the HF guns. He sells DeVilbiss guns, not very expensive, a kit for $160. If you need a replacement cup, the HF cup will fit.

At first I thought the sample he passed around wasn't very impressive. It had been sprayed a few years ago. No scratches thru the paint, but when I ran my fingernail over it, it left a visible groove. Half an hour later I got a chance to ask him about it--but couldn't find my fingernail marks! I had marked it up pretty good. He says the paint continues to flow back and even out. This was years after painting. So I tried it again, and once again, after a few minutes my marks disappeared. Strange.

He showed us a sample of paint and primer he had sprayed on some surface it wouldn't adhere to, so it looked like a piece of vinyl. Rolled it up into a ball, crumpled it in his fist, opened it up & it was all wrinkly. Later it was smooth and flat. Interesting.

I asked if a painter experienced with solvent based paint would do a better job of spraying than a rank amateur like myself, he said that until the experienced guy got used to it, I would do a better job because I would follow directions and the experienced guy would be looking for the wrong thing as the paint went on.

I will probably use a water borne paint--no explosion or fire risk, less hazardous fumes. He says you can have a propane heater going right next to where you are spraying.

Materials cost for an RV would run about $2K. His example price sheet was for covering a PA-18 (? fabric covered Piper, not a short wing) & the costs showed about $2,800.

Be sure to watch the DVD.

AFS paint

Frank Smidler said:

Thanks for your comments Dennis. I do have a couple of questions. What color white did you use? Did you paint the original Stewart Blue over a white base coat or directly onto the primer? I asked the second questions because I have heard that some colors, like the yellow I plan to use, do not cover well and need to be painted over a base of white paint.
Thanks for your response.

Click to expand...

I painted the AFS blue over the white primer (a very even coat - the primer covers pretty well as you know). One of the first mistakes I made was that I did some last minute touch up on one of the HS tips with some grey rattle can primer. That showed through the blue even in the artificial light! I re-primed the whole thing and repainted. The base obviously needs to be one consistent color, but the variation in the blue was due to my less than perfect spray technique on such a large area.
I suggest calling AFS and talking to Dan about the yellow. Ask him if it covers the same or better than the blues.
I used the Juno white, which is the 'pure' white. The other one has a touch of black in it and would probably cover a bit better, but the Juno white covered pretty well.

Frank, I noticed that Stewart Systems is doing a three day seminar at Payson, AZ the first week of April. Not too far from St George.

Dave