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Single Stage vs. Basecoat/Clearcoat

tinman

Well Known Member
I am looking for opinions from those whom have gone before...
Is basecoat/clearcoat the way to go? I can see the advantages with this system, but my concern is the lack of time between basecoat and when the clearcoat must be applied. This is not an issue for a professional, but I can only imagine how difficult it must be to mask out a scheme and shoot it without going beyond the recoat deadline.
 
Most systems have a pretty big window; I've seen up to a week. Another option is to shoot what is called intercoat clear over the color and then mask on that. If too much time elapses before you finish your masking, you can always scuff the intercoat before final clear.

Steve Zicree
 
One local builder did base/clear and he's not recommending it :) Due to the window, they worked their tails off to get everything masked in time..

just a data point..
 
Just "been there done that!"

I just completed B/C(sikkens) on my 8. Did single stage Imron on my 6.
No question I would to B/C. Although timing on coats is an issue on B/C, getting a great looking single stage is much harger than B/C. You can screw up a lot, as I did on B/C and recover easily. Single stage is just too damn hard to get right. Runs, dust, bugs etc don't come out well on single stage. Those are all painless with B/C.
:cool:
Kahuna
Thanks god my paint is done!
 
While I haven't shot B/C personally (yet), I can vouch for Kahaun's comments about single stage. I'm using DuPont Nason on my interior and the runs, dust and bugs are all there with single stage, especially on the horizontal pieces.

Will most likely do B/C on the exterior.
 
Just to be clear (pun intended), runs, bugs, dust etc. all happen with clearcoat as well as single stage. The difference is in the fix. With clearcoat you can sand and polish the defects out without altering the look. You can definitely do this with single stage urethane as well, but as you sand the coats get thinner and the color can shift.

Steve Zicree
 
Great Info Thanks

Thanks great info, OK, but...

Q1: What brand is the best. I guess they are all good and local dealers and availability is a factor, but any opinions. Pros Cons, cheaper, best buy?

Q2: Cost, what are you spending on material (paint alone) and other supplies to get the job done?

Thanks George
 
I can't really say which is best, but I can offer a few things to watch for. Out here in California they've pretty much regulated the quality out of paint by requiring the volatile organic compounds to be really low. What this means is that if you mix the clear as per manufacturer's instructions (to be VOC compliant) it'll be thick like molasses and impossible to work with. However, the manufacturer will usually say something in their literature like "if you don't live where regs are an issue, you may add so-and-so amount of reducer for better flowout". What they're really saying (with a wink) is if you don't add the extra reducer the paint will come out looking like you put it on with a roller.

The other thing to watch for is how clear is your clear? Look in the can and see if it's really clear. It should look like water. If it looks all yellow like varnish expect your beautiful white bird to come out the color of old Coors. There seems to be quite a lot of variation in what manufacturers will tolerate in this area.

Steve Zicree
Hoping to paint this thing someday
 
James... is the "prekote" you mention a wipe-on type product? ...or a spray on sealer type product?

Thanks ....gil in Tucson

... with old epoxy in the cockpit that needs to be color coated soon...:^)
 
prekote

Gil, the prekote can be wiped on or sprayed on. It is important that you clean the area to be treated with a degreaser such as PPG DX 320 and allow the degreaser to evaporate before applying the prekote. The prekote is the last thing to touch the area before paint.
 
Some clears will have a tendency to turn yellow over time. You may not ever notice it untill you need to do a spot repair or add a new part. Sometimes you will notice near the fuel fill hole if you tend to spill a little gas now and then.

2 stage systems have a real nice look to them but I like single stage myself. Of course you mileage may vary.

:)
 
Jet GLO

I had my first RV painted by a shop and they used:

JET GLO? is the premium aerospace coating used for overall base application on medium and large size aircraft. A two-component polyester, solid-color urethane, JET GLO: http://www.aircraft-paints.com/


I think the paint was about $500 Gal. It came out great and was NOT a base/clear but it came out great and looked like it had a clear coat. Not sure if it was skill or materal but it worked well and in the 6 years I flew it, she still look like it was just painted when I sold it.

What do you all think of these A two-component polyester, solid-color urethane paints? Can a builder shoot a paint like this and get good results?

George :confused:
 
Yes, I think a builder can. A lot of a paint job is the prep before the paint. The painting is the easy part. If you don't like what you end up with, get out a sander and do it again.
 
Jet-Glo or Nothin

We used jetglo in the past and it is a good paint, but it can be finicky. Like if ambient temp is too hot and you need to slow it down (the dry time, so it will flow out before gelling up) they recommend a 60/40 blend with urethane grade MEK. This can lead to problems with durability down the road because you are also thinning out the binder in the paint and making it weaker. The paint is designed to give "X" amount of protection per square foot, uncut with MEK or any other solvent, that will need to be maybe 4 mils thick in order to give the proper protection. If you dilute the product, you are diluting the protection unless you can get all of the paint onto the same area without runs, sags, etc.

Example: You start with a four gallon kit of paint. Because of high humidity and ambient temp, you need to blend it with MEK. You now have 5.6 gallons. Four Gal. would have covered the plane, with the binder at design viscosity to give protection, with maybe a quart left over. But now, you have covered the plane with 3.75 gal of diluted paint and the rest of the leftover (1.85 gal) has to be applied to the plane in order to get all of the binder on the plane for it to do it's job. Because you may have to mix more paint now (the leftover will not be enough to cover the entire plane and give an even finish) you are wasting money on paint and adding unecessary weight to the airframe by having to apply an extra coat. I know this extra coating will not weigh a great deal, but the real issue here is the protection.

I have seen a Baron that was painted here before I owned the place, with Jet-Glo (I know this because I was the shop foreman for the previous owner), blended with MEK, is about five years old, and looks like chalk. I can give contact info for the owner if anyone would like to talk to him for a first hand description of what he has.

Another issue with Jet-Glo is Thinner pop. This is comon in high ambient temp/humidity conditions where the paint skins over because it dries too fast and then the solvent still trapped under the dryer "skin" works it's way up through the "skin" and causes super tiny holes in the surface where it finally erupts. These are very tiny abd just look like pin pricks but are so numerous that they will make the surface look hazy or dull.

Last but not least is the fact that Jet-Glo is not buffable without chancing a blow through in the color. The reason is that it's color is distributed throughout the paint coating from the metal up. So if you try to buff it to remove scratches, you will be removing a little bit of pigment with the buffer. A coating like PPG Aerospace Desothane Acrylic is buffable because it's Acrylic floats up over the solid pigments and creates it's own "clear Acrylic coating" that allows buffing without touching the color and keeps scratches from digging into the colors as easily. This Desothane Acrylic is also free from thinner pop and doesn't need to be blended with anything.

Now I'm not trying to bash Jet-Glo. I just feel it is too finicky to shop conditions for everyone to blindly use without knowing it's characteristics. If you know how to use it, you can definitely produce award winning paint jobs with it that will last for years. We use the PPG Aerospace product because it is more stable in a wide variety of shop conditions and is much more flexible than other coatings such as Jet-Glo, Imron, AKZO NOBEL, etc. All of these brands will hold up great for many years IF APPLIED PROPERLY. Especially on Non-turbine airframes that do not operate in the Flight Levels.

You cannot just read the P-Sheet for the paint and just shoot. Many of them have "add-on" instruction that are not in the printed guides but may have been added by supplement (like blending with MEK). You should also consult a pro who uses the product you are wanting to use and can instruct you on how to use the product according to your shop conditions.
 
PPG auto paint?

James,

First off, thanks for taking the time from your professional painting day to answer questions from DIY painters like me.

I have a platnum level PPG dealer in town, so I was planning on using PPG, as they seem to have all the PPG chemicals in stock. The store owner is not very knowledgeable, but he has given me the number of a PPG tech rep who does. I spent an hour on the phone with him taking copious notes. Do you have experience/opinions comparing PPG auto to PPG aerospace coatings for use on GA planes? Is one more forgiving for use in a makeshift portable painting booth?

Art in Asheville
 
James,
Some good info. I have heard of people putting paint grade MEK in JET-GLO, but I've never done it myself or seen anybody do it for that matter. I have allways used the specific reducer for the paint. I usually add about 10 to 20% by volume. That gets me in the neighborhood of 17-18 seconds. I spray almost everything in two coats. Colors like red,yellow, and orange I do in three with the first one being a light gray.

My experience with PPG products is somewhat limited to Concept and whatever system Cirrus specs for the SR-20/22. Every Cirrus aircraft I have seen looked kinda dull and lifeless to me.

:)
 
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