What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Photos: Development of a Midair

T

the_other_dougreeves

Well Known Member
From Aero-News Net, some photos of a midair as it happened. Everyone walked away, but not without some significant damage. Classic high-wing vs low-wing problem.

All the details are at http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=db44d9cf-3547-4fa7-861a-20dc8a2637e0&

Cherokee-GlastarMidair-RogerCain-0108c.jpg


TODR
 
Pretty scary group of photos. It's amazing how much we get to see from incidents such as this one, now that so many people are internet-capable, and carry their cameras with them everywhere.

Mike
 
Radio...

DevDad said:
Pretty scary group of photos. It's amazing how much we get to see from incidents such as this one, now that so many people are internet-capable, and carry their cameras with them everywhere.

Mike
Click to expand...

I just hope the photographer wasn't standing next to a hand-held radio - and emphasized photography over a radio warning...

One of the unfortunate buy-products of the last sentence...:rolleyes:

gil A
 
OH MY!

I'm wearing my coffee!

I had a friend who landed his Acroduster on top of a 172...Same circumstance, much more damage but both walked away.

He now always huge slips on final now..

Frank
 
Near Miss

I had a near miss about 4 years ago: an RV-6 and a cub. Same problem with the low wing a/c above the high wing a/c. Thankfully the cub saw me before we had a time/space confrontation. Lessons learned are 1) this happens more than we think, and 2) keep your eyes open on base and final for other traffic. Don't get locked in on the runway.
 
Terrifying!

One trick that I try to use is to find my shadow on the ground as I turn base to final. It's almost always there if I'm flying a VFR pattern, and if I see another shadow next to it, I'm in trouble. Keeps me from fixating on the runway, and makes it easy to see in my blind spots.

Paul
 
These types of accidents are one reason, I believe, that we are supposed to fly a standard 3 degree final. It doesn't eliminate these accidents, obviously, but it helps. I'm amazed at the times that I'm ready to take the active runway, look for traffic on final, and don't see any. I then call the tower to get a clearance, and they say "hold short, landing traffic". I look again and see someone dragging it in a half mile out at about 100 feet.

When in the pattern, we are turning base, we tend to look for traffic where we expect it, and 1/2 mile at 100' is not where we expect it to be. Same thing with dive bombers coming in at steep glide angles.
 
Ironflight said:
One trick that I try to use is to find my shadow on the ground as I turn base to final. It's almost always there if I'm flying a VFR pattern, and if I see another shadow next to it, I'm in trouble. Keeps me from fixating on the runway, and makes it easy to see in my blind spots.

Paul
Click to expand...

Now that really puts life up here is the great NW in perspective. Up here is the Seattle area, especially this time of year, seeing my shadow causes finger pointing and exclaimations of "hey look, a shadow". We simply have to be be very ovservant and ready to take evasive action.

Not to take away from that technique however, I think it is one I will remember next August:)

Randy C
Kent, WA
 
AlexPeterson said:
These types of accidents are one reason, I believe, that we are supposed to fly a standard 3 degree final. It doesn't eliminate these accidents, obviously, but it helps. I'm amazed at the times that I'm ready to take the active runway, look for traffic on final, and don't see any. I then call the tower to get a clearance, and they say "hold short, landing traffic". I look again and see someone dragging it in a half mile out at about 100 feet.

When in the pattern, we are turning base, we tend to look for traffic where we expect it, and 1/2 mile at 100' is not where we expect it to be. Same thing with dive bombers coming in at steep glide angles.
Click to expand...
I agree there’s a problem finding traffic a half mile out at 100 feet and I hate following someone in the pattern who’s dragging it in. But I disagree that flying a standard 3 degree final would help. A 3 degree half mile final that puts you at 138 feet is hardly an improvement and you’d never make the runway with an engine failure.

It maybe useful for pilots who’re training to fly heavies, but unless I’m making a rare wheel landing, you’ll never catch me on a 3 degree final.

Also, unlike a 3 degree approach, you can see someone making 'a dive bomber' approach.

Like the FAA recommended stall recovery which calls for ‘coordinated use of ailerons’ (which I won’t touch once centered), I take their recommendations with a large grain of salt.
 
Last edited:
After the Az Wing and SoCAL Wing flyout on New Year's Day to Laughlin, I refueled at my home base (KCCB) on my return. After refueling, I started for the taxi to my hangar. I heard a radio call before I advanced the throttle to move. "Cessna departing Cable, Abort. You have an aircraft on final." I looked up to see a Cessna sitting on the numbers and a Piper direclty above it landing.
 
RV6_flyer said:
..."Cessna departing Cable, Abort. You have an aircraft on final." I looked up to see a Cessna sitting on the numbers and a Piper direclty above it landing.
Click to expand...
It takes all kinds. If I was on short final and saw someone taxi into position, rather than hope he has a radio and heard the call, I?d go around.
 
We are all looking for solutions to this mid-air problem, but the simplest solution should have been for both of those guys to use their radios, no?

Yeah, I know that we should fly "defensively", but still if everyone used a radio it would be no big deal. There's no excuse for not using a radio. They cost $300.00. If you can afford to fly, you can afford a radio. My friend has a 1947 Aeronca Chief and he uses a handheld radio with portable intercom and headsets. It works perfectly. Of course when he rebuilt the plane he used a shielded ignition harness for this very reason.
 
Jamie said:
We are all looking for solutions to this mid-air problem, but the simplest solution should have been for both of those guys to use their radios, no?
Click to expand...

Living next to an un-controlled airport, I fully agree! This isn't the stone age anymore! :D

However, I did velcro some tiny Auto-Zone beveled mirrors onto the "sixes" roll bar today.
No reason why we have to be blind to what's behind........either.

L.Adamson -- RV6A
 
The second problem...

Jamie said:
We are all looking for solutions to this mid-air problem, but the simplest solution should have been for both of those guys to use their radios, no?

Yeah, I know that we should fly "defensively", but still if everyone used a radio it would be no big deal. There's no excuse for not using a radio. They cost $300.00. If you can afford to fly, you can afford a radio. My friend has a 1947 Aeronca Chief and he uses a handheld radio with portable intercom and headsets. It works perfectly. Of course when he rebuilt the plane he used a shielded ignition harness for this very reason.
Click to expand...

All very true Jamie but there is a second issue. Once we get them to buy the radio we need to teach some of them to use the right wording. I have a few that make me a little crazy. "RV NXXX taking the active" Right, how about a hint as to which runway you have decided is the "active." Also, where are you going to "take it?" How about "(name of airport) traffic, RVXXX is departing runway 36 (name of airport)" And if you are planning anything but a standard departure add that information.

OK, rant off. Let's all be careful out there.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
FAA FAAST Team Member
KSBA
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top