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Engine Preheat

Scott Hersha

Well Known Member
Does anyone have experience/suggestions on engine preheat systems? I looked at Reiff (and read Sam Buchannon's opinion), and Symtec. Any advice out there? How about an inexpensive remotely controled (via beeper/cellphone) switch to turn it on from home???
 
Remotely controlled preheater

Scott,
Keep asking the question...somebody will have the info that I can't remember. :eek: I believe it was in one of the Yahoo groups a few months ago and used by several pilots in colder climates. They were using a device just as you describe. You call a number a few hours before you intend to fly and, instead of a beeper going off, the controller provides 110v power to the heating device of your choosing. As I recall, the company had a neat web page so you may be able to Google and find it. Sorry I don't have the URL. Hopefully someone else will remember it.
Don
 
Scott Hersha said:
Does anyone have experience/suggestions on engine preheat systems? I looked at Reiff (and read Sam Buchannon's opinion), and Symtec. Any advice out there? How about an inexpensive remotely controled (via beeper/cellphone) switch to turn it on from home???


In an effort to be fair to Reiff, I have updated the article on the HotPadd heater. The update also provides some info on how I use the sump heater. After five winters with a sump heater.........I've become spoiled to having a warm engine always ready to fly!

http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/cold.html

Sam Buchanan
 
remote control preheat

Here is a link for a remote control preheat switch:

http://www.goflying.cc/

I'm using the Symtec oil sump preheater (no remote control). Plugging it in the night before yields a warmed up engine the next morning. So far, the engine fires on the first crank down to ambient temps of +5F (love that LSE electronic ignition). Reiff has oil sump preheaters and cylinder head band heaters that look pretty nice. I don't leave the preheater plugged in all of the time, only when planning to fly the next morning which ain't very often during a North Dakota winter :(
Is it spring yet?
 
remote beeper box

This is the second winter that I have used the remote beeper box. I have two car heaters hooked up to it. One obviously blows hot air to the engine and the other I have in the cockpit making friends with the avionics and warming the interior seats etc. I have a heavy furniture blanket on top of the cowl and plugging the air intake for insulation.
The only problem that I encountered was the first year that I had the pager that I got a few "wrong" numbers that would trigger the heater on. No big deal as you can program it to shut off automatically in "X" hours. This second year has not been a problem. I guess anybody that had that pager number now knows that it doesnt reach the person it was intended for. Here is the link
http://www.reiffpreheat.com/Beeper Box pg 1.htm
Works great.

Wayne Pedersen
RV7a panel but a Beech Musketeer ready to be paged, warmed and flyin' in S.Alberta (-35 today)
 
Remote Beeper Box

Yeah, Mark and Wayne, you nailed the one I was trying to remember...the one in the yellow enclosure. Looks like the way to go to me. :D
Don
 
I have the Reiff system on the IO-360 in my Skyhawk; one sump heater and four cylinder bands.
With a simple blanket on the cowl and cowl plugs in place, the prop hub is warm and I have an indication on the oil temp gauge at startup (not green, just the needle isn't buried) with OAT in the teens F.
I'm very happy with it.
Installation was a snap, and would be even easier on an unfinished airplane.
When I get to that point (if I still live in IN) I'll put one on the RV.

Thomas
 
sump only ??

I'm thinking of buying sump heater Van is selling (Reiff ??). I primarily want it for early morning flights when the plane is in the hangar but the temp is below 40F.

So, can anyone answer this question ?

If it's 20F in the hangar, and I plug in the sump heater. How long will it take to see 50F on the CHT ? Assuming a heavy blanket, cowl plugs etc.

Thanks in advance.

John
 
John,
You may never see 50F on the CHT gauge with just a sump heater. The sump heater only heats the oil in the sump. The cylinder cooling fins will do their job and effectively transfer any leftover heat away from the cylinder heads.

Because the bores of the cylinders are choked like a shotgun, you need cylinder heat as much as you need sump heat. Then the bores open up a little and allow the engine to turn over without being constricted. Consider that the cylinders are bored to allow the cylinder walls to be straight when the engine is at operating temperature, and so they must be choked when cold.

The answer is to install the cylinder heaters which go on the base of the cylinders like a tight bracelet. There are no cooling fins in that area. These heating bracelets will heat up the cylinder walls and open up the bore to summertime (cold engine) dimensions.

Cheers, Pete
 
You may never see 50F on the CHT gauge with just a sump heater. The sump heater only heats the oil in the sump. The cylinder cooling fins will do their job and effectively transfer any leftover heat away from the cylinder heads.


I have been using a sump heater on my RV-6 for six years. The plane is keep in an insulated hangar, a blanket is thrown over the cowl, and foam plugs are in the cowl inlets. The heater stays on continuously from December to March.

Regardless of how cold the outside temp, I will see oil and cylinder temps in the 90F range when the plane is pulled out for startup on Saturday mornings (gotta be first in line for the pancakes! :D ). By leaving the sump heater running all the time, the entire engine compartment is warm including the battery which is on the firewall.

I don't know how long it would take to bring the engine compartment up to temp, but I suspect it would be at least overnight. You shouldn't expect to see similar performance from just a sump heater if the plane is parked outside or in a drafty hangar. But in my situation, the heater does a superb job of convincing the engine that the calendar is stuck on September.

Sam Buchanan
 
I have a Reiff Hotstrip on the RV-6. Last Friday night, we had Sub-40 temperatures and I used the hotstrip to preheat beginning at 5 AM. We went flying at 10:00. When I cranked the engine, the oil temp was just below 100F. I didn't use cowl plugs, blankets, or anything else, because it wasn't *that* cold. In sub-30 weather I take the time to put a blanket over the cowl and plug the inlets.

I have a kludged together arrangement sequencing a couple of timers that lets me program the pre-heater to come on one day this week, but not come on again for a month or so. This is important because I don't want to pre-heat the engine more frequently than than necessary, so I don't want a system that keeps the heater on or turns it on once a day or several times a week. Also, if I think I'm flying on Saturday but something comes up, I don't want to have to go by the airfield just to turn the timer off so it doesn't turn the pre-heater on the next saturday and the one after that, etc.

How does this work?

Get a 7 day timer and a 24 hour timer. Net investment $25.

Plug the 7 day timer into the power source and set it to activate Saturday at say, 3:00 AM and remain "on" for 6 hours. Plug a 24 hour timer into the 7 day timer, set the 24 hour timer in the on position and set the controls to stay on for just under 6 hours. Plug the heater into the 24 hour timer. At 3:00 Saturday AM, the 7 day timer will turn on the 24 hour timer, which is already in the "on" position. Your pre-heater will come on for just under 6 hours, running the heater until the 24 hour timer shuts off. Every successive Saturday, the 7 day timer will turn the 24 hour timer on at 3:00 AM, but the 24 hour timer will only advance 6 hours before its power is cut again. During that 6 hours, the daily timer is still "off". You've got 3 weeks until the daily timer turns itself on again after clicking off 18 hours of "off" time 6 hours at a time.

I wish I could have explained this better...

KB
 
Issues and a cheap approach

There are issues of condensation with turning heat on an off if you don't fly once warm.
There are issues of uneven heat expansion with just a sump heater.
I'm no expert, so don't ask me for details, but you can fill in the blanks.

My approach (C-150), and the one my A&P/AI uses is just a light bulb and some insulation like for a water heater. I just throw it over the cowl with the bulb in a safety housing inside the engine compartment. He uses a more elaborate plywood box custom fitted to the cowl. I leave the 150 or 200 watt bulb on all winter. It always gets me 40 deg. or better. Another friend keeps his gyros warm, too. I don't plan to have any moving gyros in the RV, so not an issue(?). For insulation, as Dan C. says, go to the Aviation Isle at Lowes or Home Depot.
 
Preheater

I made avery inexpensive preheater which I have used on my old Starduster and my current RV4. Get a small ceramick(sp) space heater and buy a shroud to rivet onto it to drive the heat into the rectangular exit area. Build a mount to put the rectangular exit up the engine cowl lower exit. I put this on for approx 30 minutes and it not only heats the engine but also the cockpit instruments. Works great. Roger Moore RV4DRVR
 
musings on engine preheat

There are issues of condensation with turning heat on an off if you don't fly once warm. There are issues of uneven heat expansion with just a sump heater. I'm no expert, so don't ask me for details, but you can fill in the blanks.

I am certainly no expert on this subject, just a very interested participant over the last several years, so I will try to fill in some of the blanks. If someone has strong feelings about the engine preheat issue (and some of the strong feelings I have heard expressed over the years were stated by individuals with no experience preheating their own plane....) I don't wish to attempt to change their mind. But for the RVer who is exploring this matter with an open mind, I present the following points which I have considered in the six winters I've preheated my RV-6.

1) It is readily accepted by nearly everyone with aircraft piston engine knowledge that starting a cold-soaked engine is bad news in terms of accelerated cylinder/piston wear and potential journal-to-bearing interference.

2) I also subscribe to the school of thought that allowing an engine to go through successive warming and cooling cycles via a heater without flying the engine is potentially setting the stage for abnormal corrosion. That is why my plane stays on the heater continuously once cold weather arrives. I have managed to convince myself (always a dubious process...) that there is less potential of harmful corrosion occuring if the engine is constantly maintained above the dewpoint of the environment.

3) I am not concerned about uneven "expansion" or rates of heating within the engine compartment. As I stated in an earlier post, my plane is housed in an insulated hangar in an area of the world that experiences milder winters than the northern climes. We often see sub-freezing temps, but the temps moderate for brief intervals during winter. It has been my experience that the engine compartment is maintained at a fairly consistent temp if the heater is allowed to stay on all the time. The sump heater I use is thermostatically limited to 150F so the oil won't coke. I routinely see oil temps that are very close to cylinder temps when the engine is ready to start. Placing my hands in various parts of the engine compartment also confirms that there are no significant hot or cold spots.

So....in my case, I think that continuous heating works fine and my engine is safe from accelerated corrosion. I have never seen condensation on the dipstick as I have sometimes seen in unheated engines, and when I had a cylinder off the engine after five winters of heating, I saw no indications of corrosion on the lifters or cam lobes.

I think the key to safe continuous preheating is maintaining a consistent temp engine-wide. In my case, this is possible due to the benign environment of the insulated hangar and plugging in the heater as soon as the plane is returned from a flight. If my plane was in a drafty hangar in a very cold climate, no doubt cylinder heaters would be necessary to achieve the consistent temps thoroughout the engine.

But here is my point. I have often heard blanket statements uttered in a loud and condescending manner about how our engines will turn into rust buckets if continuously pre-heated. My position is.......it depends on the individual circumstance. Tie a plane down outside in a Michigan winter and run only a sump heater with infrequent flying and I bet you will see accelerated corrosion over the years. But keep the plane in a hangar where the temps don't go through extreme swings and I think continuous pre-heating with a sump heater has merit.

One thing is for sure; the Lycosaurus really does turn over nicely and start quickly when it is warm. :cool:

Sam Buchanan

My heater:
http://thervjournal.com/cold.html
 
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Good stuff...

I have to "drive" across the field Saturday as the RV4 is getting "annualled". It's not supposed to get above 43F here in the Northeast so I'm going to try the lightbulb trick Friday night.

I like the idea of rigging a heater to blow up the exhuast outlet if that would warm the engine in 30 minutes or so. I think I might try that next and then the sump heater. Sounds like the sump heater will work fine for what I want.
I fly mostly for fun. If it's -10F outside, I'm not flying :). But there are a lot of nice days here in the winter that start off very cold but warm up nicely during the day. Those are the days where I need a little "help" in the morning.

Sam or should I say "Wilson"? Thanks for keeping the web site up. It was great fun while you were building and is still a great resource.

John
 
Remote control of preheat

Another option is an X-10 based controller, at least if you have a phone line in your hanger. See http://www.smarthome.com/4030.html

The previous owner of my hanger installed an X-10 controller that can be used to adjust the heater thermostat, turn engine pre-heat on or off, or activate just about any other electrical appliance by telephone remote control. I don't have a landline phone in the hanger right now, so I don't use it, but when he demo'd it for me, it was very slick, and relatively inexpensive.

Warren
RV-7
 
Scott,
Keep asking the question...somebody will have the info that I can't remember. :eek: I believe it was in one of the Yahoo groups a few months ago and used by several pilots in colder climates. They were using a device just as you describe. You call a number a few hours before you intend to fly and, instead of a beeper going off, the controller provides 110v power to the heating device of your choosing. As I recall, the company had a neat web page so you may be able to Google and find it. Sorry I don't have the URL. Hopefully someone else will remember it.
Don

Hi,
A product called GSM-AUTO PREHEATER has developed exactly what you are talking about and it is a GSM CONTROL system controlled from your Cell phone.
You preprogramme the GSM-AUTO and when you want to remotely set of the preheater you just call the unit and it regognizes your number as authorized and fires up the preheater.
The GSM-AUTO i see also supplies a sim card and it is all ready to go.
link is http://www.gsm.auto.com
 
Live in Colorado. Installed Reiff turbo XP system. I use a Nighthawk Systems NH100/Air-$275.00+tx/ship-it has built in pager-also needed to install external antenna on hangar-$40 at radio shack-contract with your own pager service-turn heater on via phone and code-turn off if you do not fly. Pager service I use-$45 a year. It all works well-and usually with 2 hours warm up I am ready to fly on coldest days.
 
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