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Bullet cams...not so easy

frankh

frankh

Well Known Member
This one is in response to Groucho's excellent write up of how to make his bullet cam work.

On Bryan's site you will see a list of camcorders that have AV inputs, necessary to read the putput of the bullet cam.

Unfortunately this information is incorrect in that if you go thru Circuit City's website looking for camcorders with AV inputs there are indeed VERY few mini DV 'corders that have an AV input.

Furthermore this site cannot be trusted as I bought a Panasonic PV-GS320 corder with an AV plug only to find that it is an AV OUTPUT only. In other words it will not read the bullet cam in through that port, despite the fact the site advertises an AV INPUT on this camcorder.

According to CC the ONLY cam that will import AV images is the Cannon DV-20, i,e the high definition camera that Bryan has.

Its also twice the moola at $719. A good deal for a HD corder but more than i wanted to pay.

There are cheaper disk cameras that have AV inputs but the customer write ups on them are mixed at best and I don't know how the DVD drive will stand up to G's.

If anyone knows of a Mini DV cam that will work please let me know.

I'll put a note in Bryan's inbox on this.

Thanks

Frank
 
Frank,

I have a Canon Elura 100 (non HD) which is miniDV and has an analog AV input. I've used it several times to covert analog (VHS) signals to digitial.

I don't think the Elura 100 is made anymore, but I bought mine only a year ago so maybe it could be found somewhere (like eBay). Perhaps some of canons current mini DV camcorders do the same thing. The manual refers to it as "Analog Line In Recording".

Good luck!
 
I beleive you can simply use a DV drive in place of the DV camcorder. I didn't have the time to pull up any examples, but seem to remember from when I was contemplating this that it was an easy solution. I think they are just battery powered drives with an a/v input. I think this is what they use on alot of the helmet cams and such that people use during extreme sports and such.

Let me know if you go this route and find any good deals.

Travis
 
TravisHamblen said:
I beleive you can simply use a DV drive in place of the DV camcorder. I didn't have the time to pull up any examples, but seem to remember from when I was contemplating this that it was an easy solution. I think they are just battery powered drives with an a/v input. I think this is what they use on alot of the helmet cams and such that people use during extreme sports and such.

Let me know if you go this route and find any good deals.

Travis
Click to expand...

This is what I plan to do, until better quality solid state DVRs come along. It may be that Sony is the only one making these and therefore, not inexpensive. There are two levels of quality, wouldn't go below Digital8:

MiniDV: GV-D800/900 Best quality, a 25 mbps format

Digital8: GV-D200/300 Still good quality, plenty good for web videos

Both are way better than your typical bulletCAM.
 
Thanks Brad

RV7Factory said:
Frank,

I have a Canon Elura 100 (non HD) which is miniDV and has an analog AV input. I've used it several times to covert analog (VHS) signals to digitial.

I don't think the Elura 100 is made anymore, but I bought mine only a year ago so maybe it could be found somewhere (like eBay). Perhaps some of canons current mini DV camcorders do the same thing. The manual refers to it as "Analog Line In Recording".

Good luck!
Click to expand...

I did see the Elura had a form of AV input but it wasn't clear from the literature that it would actually read the output from a VHS recorder (and thus a bullet cam).

Thats useful to know as I did see a couple fo sale so I'll have a look at those...Does yours have a USB output that I can hook directly to the PC for download?? I didn't want to have to buy a new laptop just to get that "Firewire" port.

Cheers

Frank
 
Thanks

GrayHawk said:
This is what I plan to do, until better quality solid state DVRs come along. It may be that Sony is the only one making these and therefore, not inexpensive. There are two levels of quality, wouldn't go below Digital8:

MiniDV: GV-D800/900 Best quality, a 25 mbps format

Digital8: GV-D200/300 Still good quality, plenty good for web videos

Both are way better than your typical bulletCAM.
Click to expand...

I'll have a look.

I got lucky that Circuit City made the mistake and therefore I did not have to pay the 15% restocking fee..That would have added insult to injury...:)

Frank
 
My solution

I just recently bought the JVC GZ-MG255U camcorder. It is 2 megapixel, and will record about 37 hours of video. It has a 30GB hard drive built in, and can also record onto SD cards. It comes with a very easy docking station for charging, downloading, etc. It does have the AV jack, and unlike the model 130 and 155, the 255 has in and out AV. I plan to use the audio in for an intercom interface and the video for my tailcam. It also has image stabilization, which I'm sure will help some. I've only used it as a regular camcorder so far, so I can't give any in-flight reports. The only drawback I've found so far is that the included battery only lasts about an hour. I found a 3-hour battery on ebay for about $20 which works great.
 
Is there a G rating

on this hard drive camera?

I see from the manual there is an auto shutoff if the unit is dropped so I'm wondering how much G it takes to shut the thing off...Or more to the point under how much G the thing will still record effectively.

I had avoided the disk cams so far because they were an unknown quantity in this regard.

Frank
 
Cannon Elura

RV7Factory said:
Frank,

I have a Canon Elura 100 (non HD) which is miniDV and has an analog AV input. I've used it several times to covert analog (VHS) signals to digitial.

I don't think the Elura 100 is made anymore, but I bought mine only a year ago so maybe it could be found somewhere (like eBay). Perhaps some of canons current mini DV camcorders do the same thing. The manual refers to it as "Analog Line In Recording".

Good luck!
Click to expand...

You can still get them new on Amazon for ...Gulp...$400!

Hmmm, seems like these little gems are really sought after (I bet I can guess why). I have also found a place that sells Cannon HV-20s for $665 (Free shiping) which is an amazing deal for an high defintion camcorder...Assuming you actually get the thing, but I believe Visa gives you some buying protection if I remember right?

More as I search


Frank
 
Correction

Thats $400 USED!
and $600 NEW on Amazon.

Looks like the Cannon HV 20 might be the way to go at $665.

Frank
 
Cannon HV

I bought a Factory Refurbished Cannon HV 10 for $450 about 4 months ago. It's an earlier version of the HV 20. The only downside for some, it uses a firewire to output to your computer. I had to buy a firewire board that came with the cable ($25) to retrofit my older desktop. It uses the Mini DV Cassette Tapes and seems impervious to G loads.

It's an absolutely awsome camera especially when you record on Hi-Def and play back to a Hi-Def TV. Of course your bullet camera is going to limit the quality of your recording. It's a 3.1 MP still camera too with a 10X optical zoom. If you plan to use the video camera to record the kids or grandkids, this might be the way to go.

PM me if you would like to know how I hooked the whole mess up.

Try Tiger Direct dot com and do a search for H10.
 
Great deal

Actually an awesome deal.

I just plunked down 665 on a new HV20 that comes complete with a USB port that will plug directly into my company supplied laptop.

The cheapest I came up with was $560 but a quick search online revealed the company to be less than desirable to work with.

The 665 number was from a companny that had "mixed" reviews but no-one said they never got their items and Cannon has a 1 year warranty so I may be in for some hassle but it should work out OK.

Hopefully I should be showin off my invert system in a a couple of weeks.

Cheers

Frank
 
Frank, it sounds like you are all set so this may be moot. I checked and the Elura 100 does require Firewire to transfer videos. It also has USB, but I think that is just for transferring still images.

$400 used?!?!?!? I paid $350 new only a year ago. Hmmm... maybe I'll eBay mine and upgrade to HD. ;)
 
HV 20 deals

mannanj said:
Frank:

Where did you find these deals?
Click to expand...

The $560 price is from www.thecameraprofessionals.com

As I said if you Google the name you'll get all kinds of "Interesting" feedback.

The $664 price came from www.us1camera.com
Feedbck was still mixed...Have to call them about a "Problem" with your online order where they try to strongarm you into a bunch of over priced accessories...At least thats what most of the poor feedback said...But didn't see anyone who did not get their stuff as advertised.

Frank
 
And so it goes on

OK, so the HV-20 will not transfer video via the USB port...only by the Firewire port....Grrrr!

Anyway there is a card that looks a little like a credit card that slips into what appears to be a spare slot on my laptop and provide 3 firewire ports.

The one made by "Adaptec" lists for $10 on Amazon...or $21 complete with interface cable plus shipping.

Finally I think I'm down to the last of the technical issues...I hope!

Frank
 
Beware online camera sites

frankh said:
The $560 price is from www.thecameraprofessionals.com
Click to expand...

I had personal experience with several online vendors, including this one, BroadwayPhoto, and a couple others I can't remember right now. They all sell the camera for cost, but make you buy extra batteries, warranties, etc at huge markups. When I say they make you buy, I mean they won't ship your camera if you don't. When you go online to order it, it says it's in stock. Then you get an email saying you have to call their order dept to confirm the order. That's when they strongarm you into buying the extras. When I called, I was told again that the camera was in stock. Then I was told that the JVC camcorder I ordered only came with a 'demo' battery which would only last 15 minutes, and that the warranty was only a 30 day warranty. When I declined the extras, they said they would ship the camera within 48 hours. An hour later, I got an email saying the camcorder was on backordered and I would be notified when it was in stock, but if it wasn't instock within 2 weeks, the order would be automatically cancelled and I would have to re-order. I got this same experience with all 3 vendors. I finally did some Google searching on vendors and found out that there are several of these so-called discount vendors all in New Jersey, all run by the same crooks.

Do your homework very carefully before buying camera equipment online. If the price seems to low, there's always a reason.

(sorry about the rant).
 
There are several east coast online camera dealers that advertise prices below distributor cost. Before you fork over your CC number, save yourself a big headache and google search the name of the online retailer you think is offering a great deal with the word problems in the search box.

Burned and it took over a month to resolve. Never again. :rolleyes:
 
If you're buying camera gear online, there are vast differences between the different shops. Some will sell you the camera at a great cost, but (as pointed out by others) you'll find out that the price only included the camera - not all the accessories that are packaged with the camera. You know, useful things like lens caps, batteries, shoulder straps, etc.

One vendor I've always had good experiences with is:

www.bhphotovideo.com

They have good prices, good policies, and a good reputation with professional photographers.

I don't think you'd go wrong buying from B&H if they have the product you want.
 
BHP PHoto

THis vandor also has the HV-20 for $689....Another $30 but could be well worth it if you've had good experience.

Cheers

Frank
 
craigvince said:
there are several of these so-called discount vendors all in New Jersey, all run by the same crooks.

Do your homework very carefully before buying camera equipment online. If the price seems to low, there's always a reason.
Click to expand...

Amen to everything Craig said! I can't emphasize enough how far you should stay from most of the dealers in New York & New Jersey who advertise prices 10-30% lower than everybody else.

A lot of video magazines have begun kicking them out of their pages, and the advertisers that remain are generally reputable. B&H Photo and Video, especially, is very safe, and one of the best dealers in the country for photo and video gear.)

If the dealer has a retail store -- an actual address you can visit -- they're probably OK. Most of the deep discounters do not, and there's a reason for that. Can you say "irate customers?" :rolleyes:
 
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Sorry I've missed this thread - I've been on travel for the last week with work with extremely slow internet (like 1kb/sec!). Here are some random notes responding to a few different messages above.

The cameras I listed on my tailcam page (http://www.thedukes.org/rv/tailcam.html) are not based on what Circuit City/Best Buy have to say about them. I've found that their websites & the sales staff at both places don't often have the right info (I have a spare camcorder that doesn't have AV inputs if anyone wants it :cool:) Anyway, those listed were based on manufacturer direct info. Of course, please re-verify for yourself because specs can change.

I currently have a Canon HV-10 & a Sony DCR-HC96 and they both work quite well for capturing bullet cam video. The HC96 is a standard def camera & the HV-10 is HD. (All the affordable bullet cams I've found are standard def, so no need to worry about HD unless you want it for something else. The AV inputs in camcorders are almost always composite video anyway, so standard def it is!

Of the cameras I listed on my page, the only ones still available that have AV inputs are the Canon HV-10, HV-20 and the Sony DCR-HC28. The HC-28 is available at Circuit City for $250. All of those cameras transfer video via the firewire port. The Canon HV-10 won't transfer via USB - not sure about the HV-20 or Sony. I have firewire on my computer & that's all I've used. Works for me.

Keep in mind I listed miniDV camcorders only. In my opinion, actual tape is less likely to have issues when strapped to a vibrating & aerobatic-ing airplane than a hard drive camcorder. Since I bought my HV-10 a year ago, flash camcorders have become more available (flash, not hard drive). Those may be worth looking at too.

Cameras with optical image stabilization (i.e. the HV-10 & HV-20) don't do well at all when used in the plane to shoot video through their lens. My HV-10 just makes a blurry mess when I mount it to shoot video. (It's an HD blurry mess, but still a blurry mess.) The HC96 & my old Canon ZR70MC - stolen!) with electronic image stabilization do very well in the cockpit when shooting video natively. All the above cameras do well recording bullet cam video. FWIW, because of the optical image stabilization vibration (for lack of a better word) I've seen, I don't hard-mount my HV-10 in the cockpit. Jamming it between the seats keeps it held snugly in place in my plane.

The little DVR recorders should work well & their video quality is probably roughly what the bullet cams put out. I wanted a camcorder anyway, so I opted to get a camcorder with an input instead. DVR's typically have the added benefit of being able to just hit the record button instead of having to dig through camcorder menus to get things going.

On a semi-related note, I really love my HV-10 for shooting camcorder-style non-flying video. I think it has a great picture & it's easy to use. If anyone cares to see some of it's HD output, check out some of the videos I have here: http://www.thedukes.org/rc/ (just make sure you get the HD files, not the small ones.) Some of those (all?) are resampled to 720p instead of the camera's native 1080i. You should still be able to get an idea of the quality...great for a "consumer" camera I think.

I've been ordering from B&H Photo for over 10 years & have had nothing but good luck. Two thumbs up.

If there's anything on my site that's inaccurate PLEASE let me know so I'm not feeding bad poop to the masses.

Bullet cams...easy! (right? ;)) (...still waiting on it to warm up to paint my tailcam mount!)
 
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Good point

The technical web guru that lives at Circuit City did say that the number of cams offering A/V inputs is decreasing all the time. It seems like this is a rapidly shifting game.

Mind you, I did end up buying a Home theater system from Circuit City (whom I'd never dealt with before) so there is always something there to spend yer money on...:)

HV20 should be here wednesday for $664 shipping included.

Frank
 
Hummmmm

I have a camera in the butt of the plane, one inside rear, one inside front, and one embedded in the dash L@@King over the nose to the outside. The cameras are then fed into a quad multiplexer and onward to the DVR and dash mounted am/fm/dvd/7" video whatch-ya-ma-call-it. I also have a remote control to bring the pictures up full screen or quad on the screen. It makes for some very interesting video.

The main reason I installed the 1st camera was to see how close I was to the ground with the tail upon landing. So I installed the "ButtCam". This plane has to land close to flat. Gets a little tricky when its windy. After that I figured to put in the rest.

http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff213/1sticky1/?action=view&current=V1112005.flv

Try supercircuits.com.....
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sticky1 said:
The main reason I installed the 1st camera was to see how close I was to the ground with the tail upon landing. So I installed the "ButtCam". This plane has to land close to flat. Gets a little tricky when its windy...
Click to expand...
Ok, now I'm afraid the apocalypse is upon us. It sounded like you said you land your RV sportplane while looking at a video monitor.

Please tell me I'm wrong! This is too horrible to even consider.
 
n5lp said:
Ok, now I'm afraid the apocalypse is upon us. It sounded like you said you land your RV sportplane while looking at a video monitor.

Please tell me I'm wrong! This is too horrible to even consider.
Click to expand...
Ever talk to any of the Nemesis NXT guys? Next time you see an NXT, take a look in their right main gear well. Bullet cam. I'm not sure they'd tell you "for the record" how they use it though. :D
 
Hummmmm

Yeaaaaa Righttttttt.......while watching opra on the tv monitor in split screen and eating bon-bons.

See the avitar.......tis what I fly.......
 
hummmmm

If you look back....the correct link to my 100mph landing without flaps has been edited.....:eek:
 
Bullet cam works!

Ok call me a thread resurrector, but it is MY thread..:)

Anyway, I got the bullet cam and the Cannon HV20 bolted down on Saturday. As I have inverted fuel and oil a lot of my filming is going to be -ve G so not having the camcorder hit the canopy would be nice.

I paid $664 for the HV20 from US1photo in NJ...Quite a deal as Circuit City is selling them for about a grand.

Flew some acro looks pretty darned good, Unfortunatly there is no way i can seem to get the software to work on my Laptop in order capture the video. The Laptop seems to meet the min system requirements.

Anyway hopefully I can sort that out soon and can post a few YouTube clips

Frank
 
Really?

How do you figure that out?

$664 was the lowest price I saw anywhere for a new HV20, well I did see it for $560 but it was pretty clear the company was waaay less than reputable...A quick search on the company name soon revealed that.

Frank
 
Bullet cams

Has anyone found a bullet cam suitable for use under the cowl?

The temps and vibration around the engine are high. Can these things survive? I would love to see what is actually going on.
 
Has anyone tried the mini DVR Recorder/Player from helmetcamera.com? :confused:

http://www.helmetcamera.com/acart/agora.cgi?product=Mini_Recording_Devices

Seems like they have everything one could need in a nice package at a reasonable price.

FWIW I have a new Panasonic SDR H-18 camcorder which records to either a hard drive or SD card. The hard drive shuts down under G-loading but the SD card works great in flight. Unfortunately there is no A/V input so I cannot use a bullet camera. :mad: I did put together a pretty nice video with this camera

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eFAIvw6_82c

but sure would like to have the ability to remotely mount a bullet cam.

Ron Schreck
RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
 
Hummmmm

ronschreck said:
Has anyone tried the mini DVR Recorder/Player from helmetcamera.com? :confused:

http://www.helmetcamera.com/acart/agora.cgi?product=Mini_Recording_Devices

Seems like they have everything one could need in a nice package at a reasonable price.

FWIW I have a new Panasonic SDR H-18 camcorder which records to either a hard drive or SD card. The hard drive shuts down under G-loading but the SD card works great in flight. Unfortunately there is no A/V input so I cannot use a bullet camera. :mad: I did put together a pretty nice video with this camera

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eFAIvw6_82c

but sure would like to have the ability to remotely mount a bullet cam.

Ron Schreck
RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
Click to expand...




See post 29
 
Sticky1 said:
See post 29
Click to expand...

I gather then that your video was done useing the DVR from helmetcam.com??? If so, can you tell me if it does everything you need it to do? Is it superior to a camcorder with A/V input?

Anybody else have experience with this unit?

Ron
 
Hummmmmm

Here's the scoop or poop........

Bullet Cams or mini cams
http://www.supercircuits.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4224

http://www.supercircuits.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=445

or ebay for good deals

DVR's

http://www.supercircuits.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=5413

That will get you started. The color camera is 12vdc and is connected to a breaker. The color camera is also fed to the DVR. The DVR has a card so you can take it home and copy the video to your home computer.

Thats a simple one......

Now add a quad splitter which will take 4 cameras and output either all 4 on a screen or full screen one at a time. I have a dash mounted (top of the stack) panasonic 7" screen, pop up of course for instant viewing.

http://electronics.listings.ebay.co...QQfromZR4QQsacatZ32825QQsocmdZListingItemList

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-...DVD/model.CQ-VX100U_11002_7000000000000005702

Next time the weather is good I will record all 4 at the same time as well as full screen shots and post it.

Its really neat to see top screen front shot and bottom screen rear shot.

All total I paid under $500.00

Now go 1 step further with inferred.......yea right $15k....
 
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Another Pricey Choice DVR

Guys, I been lookin' for DVR... this one is pricey but compact.

http://www.raceoptics.com/quadpro2.php

Thanks for the postings of other companies.

I am also looking for a way to mechanically "pan, tilt, zoom," (or, forget the zoom). Thinkin' of a very small pod or bowl housing for the bullet cam, which can be manipulated with joystick, using little servo drivers (like a auto side mirror).

Commercial units are quite large and inappropriate to hang on belly.

JTM
 
Hummmmmm

John Meyers said:
Guys, I been lookin' for DVR... this one is pricey but compact.

http://www.raceoptics.com/quadpro2.php

Thanks for the postings of other companies.

I am also looking for a way to mechanically "pan, tilt, zoom," (or, forget the zoom). Thinkin' of a very small pod or bowl housing for the bullet cam, which can be manipulated with joystick, using little servo drivers (like a auto side mirror).

Commercial units are quite large and inappropriate to hang on belly.

JTM
Click to expand...



Nice but pricey


As for the p/t/z; Been there, done that, or at least tried to. You will not find a p/t/z that will work the way you want it to unless you go about 20k and if you do it will not fit your plane.

I am in the business and have been for 20 years and played with many configurations. Supercuircuits is by far one of the least expensive retailers with a great reputation. When I am stuck, I will buy from them ...like the DVR.

I have also purchased from ebay and got some great deals.

All my equipment is mounted except the dvr which I also use elsewhere.
The rear camera is mounted in the "V" of the hull. I haven't put the plane in the water yet since the camera installation...should make for interesting video...
 
HUmmmmmm

PS - Some of the software used to L@@K at the video will let you stop a frame and zoom in via software on your computer.
 
Solid State DVRs

I got out my small DVR I bought 6 months ago for my plane's video system (been building a house) and if his link is correct; it is the same one as Sticky1 is using (identical, except for branding). This unit is also sold as the Micro DVR PV-500/600.

For my system, I've been planning 4 cameras, similar to what Sticky1 is doing, except that my 4 are going to be: right wing facing forward, left wing facing rear, VS tip cam, and........ I'm still going to try my ball turret CAM. :)
 
Hummmmmm

Some of your requested Info:


Monitor:AVH-P7800DVD
Quad: Monkey Video MVAC1
DVR:Supercircuits.com MDVR-12
Camera: Any
 
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