Van's Air Force
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Hartzell or other C/S?
- Thread starter Tbone
- Start date
kevinh
Well Known Member
Van's has the best prices (by far) - I looked around a few years ago when I was building my 7a.
gmcjetpilot
Well Known Member
Vans BA Hartzell
Van as the discount price which is given ONLY to owners of a Van kit. They have an OEM deal. To buy retail is several thousand more. ITS A DEAL. Hartzell BA has the best performance and best support. Nuff said.
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Prices
I just spoke to Barbara at Vans. Prices for Hartzell have already gone up but they don't know yet exactly how much, probably $150 or so. I guess Van's will know when they get their next shipment. So, it's way too late to order and still get the current price Van's has listed. Hartzell has already filled their allotment for this year. Hartzell will be shutting down soon for their 2 weeks scheduled Christmas shut down. Lots of big boys aren't gonna be very happy on Christmas morning!!!! I for one have stress tested my stocking and know it will hold 55 lbs. Guess it will be way under gross this year.
Bevan
RV7A wiring
I just spoke to Barbara at Vans. Prices for Hartzell have already gone up but they don't know yet exactly how much, probably $150 or so. I guess Van's will know when they get their next shipment. So, it's way too late to order and still get the current price Van's has listed. Hartzell has already filled their allotment for this year. Hartzell will be shutting down soon for their 2 weeks scheduled Christmas shut down. Lots of big boys aren't gonna be very happy on Christmas morning!!!! I for one have stress tested my stocking and know it will hold 55 lbs. Guess it will be way under gross this year.
Bevan
RV7A wiring
Tbone
Well Known Member
Unfortunate
for me. Snooze you lose. I did not realize that Hartzell increased their prices every year. I thought I was ready to order. My stocking will only have a bunch of receipts and no product. I did go to Hartzell's website to check on the prop restrictions for the 7497-2 and they didn't even list that prop that I could find. They did show a F7666A-4 though. Is that an old number or is the 7497 the most current rendition? I am not a prop person so please bear with me.
for me. Snooze you lose. I did not realize that Hartzell increased their prices every year. I thought I was ready to order. My stocking will only have a bunch of receipts and no product. I did go to Hartzell's website to check on the prop restrictions for the 7497-2 and they didn't even list that prop that I could find. They did show a F7666A-4 though. Is that an old number or is the 7497 the most current rendition? I am not a prop person so please bear with me.
7497 Vibration survey
Terry,
If you send me your email address, I'll forward a reply with vibration survey statement for O-360 and IO-360 with the 7497 prop. I received this from Hartzell when I asked them the same question.
Basically they are compatible without RPM restrictions. Not tested for aerobatics and must be 180HP, 8.5 compression, no dampeners, no electronic ignition on the 0-360. LASAR and Powerflow exhaust passed for the IO-360 M1A.
Because it passed with LASAR, I wonder if that means OK for Lightspeed. Anyone know?
Bevan
Terry,
If you send me your email address, I'll forward a reply with vibration survey statement for O-360 and IO-360 with the 7497 prop. I received this from Hartzell when I asked them the same question.
Basically they are compatible without RPM restrictions. Not tested for aerobatics and must be 180HP, 8.5 compression, no dampeners, no electronic ignition on the 0-360. LASAR and Powerflow exhaust passed for the IO-360 M1A.
Because it passed with LASAR, I wonder if that means OK for Lightspeed. Anyone know?
Bevan
gmcjetpilot
Well Known Member
EI is a EI (we assume)
Electronic ignitions are all considered about the same. Hartzell actually used Light Speed for many or most of their test. What's assumed is electronic ignitions are equivalent. Why? TWO THINGS: One they put out a huge strong spark, which makes a stronger power pulse; Two, they are dead accurate and fire with such precision they tend to aggravate harmonics. Mag timing kind of floats around a little, and of course mags a have much weaker spark.
I want to emphasize the word ASSUME. If the actual combo was not tested its a guess. The only way to know for sure is test it on your plane with all the parts. Call Hartzell and tell them what you have and they will make an educated guess of how your configuration compares to whats been tested. When you get into high compression, fancy cold plenums, fancy cams, pipes and ignition you are experimental all the way.
We're experimental and like a 1000 separate aircraft manufactures, so Hartzell can't analyze ever combo we come up with. How many pipes, ignitions and inductions are there?
Electronic ignitions are all considered about the same. Hartzell actually used Light Speed for many or most of their test. What's assumed is electronic ignitions are equivalent. Why? TWO THINGS: One they put out a huge strong spark, which makes a stronger power pulse; Two, they are dead accurate and fire with such precision they tend to aggravate harmonics. Mag timing kind of floats around a little, and of course mags a have much weaker spark.
I want to emphasize the word ASSUME. If the actual combo was not tested its a guess. The only way to know for sure is test it on your plane with all the parts. Call Hartzell and tell them what you have and they will make an educated guess of how your configuration compares to whats been tested. When you get into high compression, fancy cold plenums, fancy cams, pipes and ignition you are experimental all the way.
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George, how did you come to this conclusion? This appears a little like received wisdom to me.
All the spark can do is initiate combustion. A higher energy spark will result in a lesser ignition delay, but the burn rate will be more or less identical. What electronic ignition systems do (over magnetos) is advance the ignition. It is predominantly the advanced ignition that is responsible for the 'stronger power pulse'
The accuracy and reduced variability of the ignition timing is also unlikely to be more than a limited player in the torque forcing function, since the firing frequency is still there. What is more likely happening is that the amplitudes of the higher order frequencies in the torque forcing function are much greater.
A
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all electrionic ignitions the same?
George, I dont believe one should assume that all electronic ignitions are the same in how they affect propeller stress. There's just too many variable.
Further, Rick at Hartzell tells me the IO-360-M1A was tested with the Lasar system (and passed). He went on to say that the Lightspeed II would probably have the equivalent affect as the Lasar BUT but this statement could not be extended to any other EI.
Bevan
George, I dont believe one should assume that all electronic ignitions are the same in how they affect propeller stress. There's just too many variable.
Further, Rick at Hartzell tells me the IO-360-M1A was tested with the Lasar system (and passed). He went on to say that the Lightspeed II would probably have the equivalent affect as the Lasar BUT but this statement could not be extended to any other EI.
Bevan
Nope. The EI advance only happens at low manifold pressures, to improve economy. At high power settings, the advance is right where a mag would be, subject to individual owner calibration.
All ignition events are NOT created equal. A low power spark does not always result in complete combustion due to charge stratification, among other things. This is why a high power, longer duration spark gives more of the combustion events a greater chance to complete in the proper time to utilize the best crank angle, thus increasing power.
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
The Laser system uses one of the mags as a sensor, so it is subject to the same level of timing "float" as a regular non electronic setup.
To really keep the timing dead on, a pickup at the crank/flywheel is needed.
Some E.I.s---E/Pmag, I believe, (and, I think, even Light speed has the option) are timed by the use of a mag port in the accessory case instead of the crank trigger.
