Flying to San Diego

Next year I would like to fly to San Diego to visit a couple friends. The XC trip looks fairly straight forward until I get to the Phoenix-to-San Diego leg - lots of restricted areas and mountains.
Any suggestions for this portion of the trip from those who have done it? Which route through the mountains, and which airport in SD would be the best. Looks like a southerly route just north of the border would be the ticket.
Thanks

Route to San Diego

Hey Bruce,
Although I have not flown the Phoenix to San Diego route, I have flown over the mts from SD many times to the desert. The airport you fly into depends on where you want to end up. If you want to go to Chula Vista/south San Diego, Brown Field is best. East County (El Cajon, Santee, etc) - Gillespie is your choice. San Diego and north - Montgomery Field. A little further north - Carlsbad/Palomar. I flew C-172's, so I usually chose the southerly route paralleling the boarder. But in an RV, you could aim for the Julian VORTAC and drop on in to whichever airport you choose.
Hope this helps.
v/r
Rob

bsacks05 said:

Next year I would like to fly to San Diego to visit a couple friends. The XC trip looks fairly straight forward until I get to the Phoenix-to-San Diego leg - lots of restricted areas and mountains.
Any suggestions for this portion of the trip from those who have done it? Which route through the mountains, and which airport in SD would be the best. Looks like a southerly route just north of the border would be the ticket.
Thanks

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I've made that flight a few times. After fueling in Casa Grande (usually the best price, self-serve, and a pleasant airport except for the abundance of IFR practice coming off the nearby VOR), I fly the corridor down from Phoenix and then along the border. With a GPS or VOR, navigating is simple. If you fly on the weekend, some of the restricted airspace may be open.

The trip over the mountains is quick and I haven't found it any sort of problem in an RV. But, I do keep my scan going constantly for favorable emergency landing sites, just in case. The descent into the San Diego area is abrupt.

I've flown into two fields in the area. Carlsbad/Palomar is a very busy, controlled airport and they have/had VERY limited tie down space. I think only 6 spots. I've always gotten (sometimes the last) one, but I'm not sure what happens if they are filled. Montgomery Field is also controlled and busy, but I have found it easier to go into and out of than Palomar. I think it's Gibbs Aviation that has done well by me.

My biggest warning on both airports concerns the habit for Center to drop you about 10 miles out from the airport and direct you to squawk 1200. Then, you have to try to break into the towers. So, VFR flight following doesn't help you transition into the controlled space. Then, I've had trouble breaking into the Palomar frequency and Paul had trouble doing so at Montgomery (http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=17397&highlight=montgomery+field). If you can arrive at a quiet time (or, maybe, file IFR?), it's worth it.

One more point. While climbing out from the Phoenix area and flying west, the military and airline traffic can be intense. The military folks sometimes seem to be a nearly steady north-south flow about the Glendale (west Phoenix) area and the airlines, forced into the same narrow corridor for flights to-from Southern California and Phoenix, will likely be descending/climbing along your path. It is one area that I have appreciated VFR flight following. Otherwise, you might want to stay low until you get further west.

bsacks05 said:

Next year I would like to fly to San Diego to visit a couple friends. The XC trip looks fairly straight forward until I get to the Phoenix-to-San Diego leg - lots of restricted areas and mountains.
Any suggestions for this portion of the trip from those who have done it? Which route through the mountains, and which airport in SD would be the best. Looks like a southerly route just north of the border would be the ticket.
Thanks

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I have flown from Fort Collins-Loveland (FNL) (North central CO) to Ramona (RNM) (NE of San Diego, right at the edge of class B) several times now; but I suspect my route is more North of what you want to do. Only restricted area I divert slighly for is the one at the North end of the Salton Sea.

bc

Make SJN a Stopover

Bruce,

Why not change course a little and haed further to North to take in Monument Valley, Lake Powell, and the Grand Canyon. While your at it, get a willd hair and check out Bryce Canyon, I'm sure you won't regret it. If you do, make sure you plan to stop over at SJN and refuel for some of the best service, cheap fuel and experience of a grass roots airport. Of course, I am bias, I live in ST. Johns,AZ.

This is a good way to go because you can avoid Phoenix Bravo airspace, Luke Air force, etc. Just a suggestion.

Ed Avila
Rv9A in Progress
N542A

KCGZ - Gila Bend - Uma - Imperial - Direct (whatever destination in San Diego) is the route Louise showed me - works great...and as she says, be prepared for high desnity traffic and airports west of the mountains....

I think we used Oceanside as well one trip - interesting noise abatemnt procedure!

Louise Hose said:

I think it's Gibbs Aviation that has done well by me.

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It is Gibbs at Montgomery, they're great people there. I'm based out of SMO and fly down to Montgomery or Brown quite often, my wife has family in the area.

Louise is also right about flight following if you're going into Montgomery, they'll set you free and tell you to contact the tower, which can get quite busy.

However, if you're going to brown though flight following can be a lot of help. In my experience, they'll keep you on flight following the whole way, and clear you through the Class B airspace. Even though they route you through the SFR area over Lindberg, I was given clearance into Class B and kept on flight following until about 10 miles out from Brown. Once clear of Class B the drill was the same, squawk 1200 and contact the tower, but at Brown it's much less busy than up north.

The San Diego Class B SFR is a nice flight over the bay past downtown, I highly recommend it.

-John
Planning to build an RV....someday

bsacks05 said:

Next year I would like to fly to San Diego to visit a couple friends. The XC trip looks fairly straight forward until I get to the Phoenix-to-San Diego leg - lots of restricted areas and mountains.
Any suggestions for this portion of the trip from those who have done it? s

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I done this trip several times, and it's really not difficult.

A few suggestions:

1) Fly on airways--in that part of the world it's the easiest way to stay out of restricted airspace and rocks. I don't have the chart in front of me, but IIRC V66 puts you right on the IAF for the ILS into montgomery field.

2) File IFR if you can--even in VFR weather you often are arriving in the afternoon, and the airport can be hard to pick out against a setting sun. If you are VFR only, cheat and fly the localizer anyway.

3) Don't fly this leg at night. There are some very tall rocks.

4) Use flight following if VFR, expect lots of traffic

5) Bring water. If you "land out," this is some of the most desolate country in the U.S., and help may be a while in arriving.

6) Bring a camera--this is really a photogenic leg, and different from the rest of the US.

flyeyes said:

2) File IFR if you can--even in VFR weather you often are arriving in the afternoon, and the airport can be hard to pick out against a setting sun. If you are VFR only, cheat and fly the localizer anyway.

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Agreed. Some days can be very hazy in SoCal. In the case of RNM, the runway in use is usually 27, which means, at sunset, you can be blinded. Might be best to NOT arrive at sunset or hold until just after sunset.

TAC can help

flyeyes said:

2) File IFR if you can--even in VFR weather you often are arriving in the afternoon, and the airport can be hard to pick out against a setting sun. If you are VFR only, cheat and fly the localizer anyway.

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When it comes to flying, I'm pretty much a country girl whose more comfortable at uncontrolled airports. I had trouble spotting and setting up for Montgomery my first time (flying in from the north) largely because I didn't know the local terminology. "Fly direct to the Stadium, then turn left and direct to the State College." Say what? Turns out the sites are identified on the Terminal Area chart. It is probably prudent to obtain and study the San Diego TAC. You might also tell them "Unfamiliar with the area" when you contact approach/tower controllers. That said, I did survive my first arrival just fine despite very little previous experience in urban airspace.

Louise Hose said:

I had trouble spotting and setting up for Montgomery my first time (flying in from the north) largely because I didn't know the local terminology.

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That's another great point, the controllers will direct you by the local landmarks. The Terminal Chart is a good start, also Optima's Guide to California Airports would be a great help. They have fold out maps with the airspace, nav aids, topography and local landmarks all identified. It also has an "Approach Notes" and "Departure Notes" section which gives you a good idea of what you're likely to hear from the controllers as you're coming in or heading out.

-John
Plannnig to build an RV.....someday

Listen carefully

If you get flight following in San Diego's class B, expect to get handed off to several different controllers in a short space. And the controllers are extremely busy. They will only say instructions once and often don't wait for your response before moving on to the next customer. I did all my instrument training and checkride down there and found it very challenging. But lots of fun! Also, I second that previous recommendation to get a terminal chart to be familiar with the visual reference points.

Chuck Olsen
RV-7A
TSP

WOW! Thanks everyone!

I plan to save all these posts to help in my trip planning. It should be a great one. I haven't seen my San Diego buds in almost ten years.

What is left to say about the versatility of the RV, after 170 hours I've been all over GA and FL, to the Bahamas, D.C. twice, PA, and Alabama. It's about time to go west. (After all, I was born in CA)

Excellent restaurant in SD

While in San Diego, an excellent restaurant you may want to go to is "Mr. A's".
This restaurant is adjacent to Balboa Park on (I think) 6th street. The restaurant is on the top floor of an office building that flies a huge American flag. You can eat outside on the patio or inside. You have a panoramic view of downtown San Diego and NAS North Island/Coronado Island. But the best part is that you are on the final approach path to Lindberg Field. Watching all the traffic coming into Lindberg as well as occasional MH-60's, Merlins, etc into North Island while enjoying a 5-star meal is quite a treat. It's an expensive restaurant, but well worth the trip.

I concur with Louise's Palomar report. We flew in there (in the C-180) last June and it was mayhem getting in and down. The mix of aircraft at the time had the tower guy pulling his hair out....an autogyro, a Lear, A Fleet Biplane, a Cherokee and us! Some terse moments ensued while Cherokee boy flew across final in front of the Lear and they forgot me on downwind.

Parking on the ramp was nil...just off to the side of the FBO with wheel chocks. Exec jets have the run of the place. FBO was nice though....free Starbucks too and rental car delivered to the door.