Van's Air Force
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e-85 alcohol still
- Thread starter cytoxin
- Start date
E-85
E-85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. You would have to make 100% ethanol, which is not easy. A traditional distillation system gets you to about 96.5%. Then you need a way to remove the rest of the water. Azeotropic distillation or another method such as a molecular seive. Burning E-85 and getting the same horsepower is another challenge without serious consideration. Ethanol contains less energy per unit than gasoline. It's possible but not strait forward for the average person.
Mike
E-85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. You would have to make 100% ethanol, which is not easy. A traditional distillation system gets you to about 96.5%. Then you need a way to remove the rest of the water. Azeotropic distillation or another method such as a molecular seive. Burning E-85 and getting the same horsepower is another challenge without serious consideration. Ethanol contains less energy per unit than gasoline. It's possible but not strait forward for the average person.
Mike
pierre smith
Well Known Member
Easy
The still is easy to make for consumable alcohol/vodka. Ask me how I know. A five gallon bucket with 20-30 feet of copper tubing coiled inside, coming out near the bottom. Cold water continually run into the top of the bucket....
Dunno about methanol.
The still is easy to make for consumable alcohol/vodka. Ask me how I know. A five gallon bucket with 20-30 feet of copper tubing coiled inside, coming out near the bottom. Cold water continually run into the top of the bucket....
Dunno about methanol.
John Courte
Well Known Member
The Charles 803
http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/
Robert Warren's still was designed from the ground up to make ethanol fuel. This isn't a moonshine rig, it's supposed to give you fuel-grade ethanol with every run, and with the automatic thermostat, this is achievable more often than not. I got the plans for this a while back, but I didn't build it, since suburban Los Angeles isn't the best place to experiment with homebrewed alternative fuels. Also, I didn't think the BATF would grant me a small-fuels-producer license, since I have no outbuilding suitable for the process. Supposedly the license is easy to get, and it's fairly non-discretionary, even after 9/11.
Robert Warren died of cancer in 2004, but his daughter still sells the plans and the newsgroups on yahoo and google are supposedly still active.
http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/
Robert Warren's still was designed from the ground up to make ethanol fuel. This isn't a moonshine rig, it's supposed to give you fuel-grade ethanol with every run, and with the automatic thermostat, this is achievable more often than not. I got the plans for this a while back, but I didn't build it, since suburban Los Angeles isn't the best place to experiment with homebrewed alternative fuels. Also, I didn't think the BATF would grant me a small-fuels-producer license, since I have no outbuilding suitable for the process. Supposedly the license is easy to get, and it's fairly non-discretionary, even after 9/11.
Robert Warren died of cancer in 2004, but his daughter still sells the plans and the newsgroups on yahoo and google are supposedly still active.
Rotary10-RV
Well Known Member
EQUIVELENT HP
It isn't too hard to get the HP up on alcohol, but be ready for 30% higher fuel consumption. Straight Alky, be it Eth or Meth has considerably fewer BTU's/lb than gasoline. Gal/hr WILL suffer.
Bill Jepson
It isn't too hard to get the HP up on alcohol, but be ready for 30% higher fuel consumption. Straight Alky, be it Eth or Meth has considerably fewer BTU's/lb than gasoline. Gal/hr WILL suffer.
Bill Jepson
rzbill
Well Known Member
Jerusalem Artechokes
Boy, does that bring back memories. The beginning of his article talks about '78 Mother Earth News. I went to a Mother Earth ethanol fuel seminar in Raleigh while I was in school there. My Dad wanted to start doing it but could not take off from work to go to the seminar so he sent me.
We never did it, mostly because the "savings" were based on farming your own vegitable matter and burning wood to boil the mash. It is a translation of paying in $$ to paying in man-hrs to obtain fuel.
I'd probably reconsider if there was a low labor solar energy method to boil the mash. Using it for avgas is not for me. Not enough energy content compared to good 'ol bublin' crude.
Boy, does that bring back memories. The beginning of his article talks about '78 Mother Earth News. I went to a Mother Earth ethanol fuel seminar in Raleigh while I was in school there. My Dad wanted to start doing it but could not take off from work to go to the seminar so he sent me.
We never did it, mostly because the "savings" were based on farming your own vegitable matter and burning wood to boil the mash. It is a translation of paying in $$ to paying in man-hrs to obtain fuel.
I'd probably reconsider if there was a low labor solar energy method to boil the mash. Using it for avgas is not for me. Not enough energy content compared to good 'ol bublin' crude.
I have a pet theory that fuel/energy (Diesel, Gasoline, Ethanol and blends, electricity, natural gas, LP, etc) should be sold by the Joule, or the BTU, or kWh, so that the average joe knows what he's getting. People say that "Ethanol contains less energy!" . Less per gallon, yes, so if you pay the same for a gallon of gas as a gallon of ethanol you're getting hosed. If you pay the same per unit of ENERGY, then it all works out.
cytoxin
Well Known Member
well
I was looking for a special topic when I ran across this guy selling the idea that "you can make your own and I’ll sell you the plans for 30$." sounds doable and intriguing. Id like to try it. just for kicks but im sure the one key part I would need would be some tetrion particles or dilithium crystals
as far as power it reads that you get more power @105 octane and allows higher compression ratios. It does mention that it suffers 30-40% less mileage. As well as being conductive and corrosive (the water in it)..i have no intention of trying to fly my rv with it..
I was looking for a special topic when I ran across this guy selling the idea that "you can make your own and I’ll sell you the plans for 30$." sounds doable and intriguing. Id like to try it. just for kicks but im sure the one key part I would need would be some tetrion particles or dilithium crystals
as far as power it reads that you get more power @105 octane and allows higher compression ratios. It does mention that it suffers 30-40% less mileage. As well as being conductive and corrosive (the water in it)..i have no intention of trying to fly my rv with it..
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E-85
The simple still referenced makes 90% alcohol or 180 proof alcohol. This leaves 10% water in your fuel. Getting the proof above about 193 requires more work. Ethanol or ethyl alcohol has much less energy (btu's) per lb or gallon than gasoline. The water retards the already reduced energy content. Commercial ethanol contains very little water. Today this is accomplished using a molecular sieve.
Octane is not a measure of energy.
If you ferment corn and make one simple distillation you get a very poor quality vodka. Fermentation produces ethyl alcohol plus allot of impurities (other alcohols, etc) that must be seperated by further distillations to produce pure vodka. The BATF is now the TTB.
Mike
The simple still referenced makes 90% alcohol or 180 proof alcohol. This leaves 10% water in your fuel. Getting the proof above about 193 requires more work. Ethanol or ethyl alcohol has much less energy (btu's) per lb or gallon than gasoline. The water retards the already reduced energy content. Commercial ethanol contains very little water. Today this is accomplished using a molecular sieve.
Octane is not a measure of energy.
If you ferment corn and make one simple distillation you get a very poor quality vodka. Fermentation produces ethyl alcohol plus allot of impurities (other alcohols, etc) that must be seperated by further distillations to produce pure vodka. The BATF is now the TTB.
Mike
carguy614
Well Known Member
hooch
Don't forget to consider ethanol's corrosive nature when your plans to burn it become reality. I am an auto tech (36 years) and have seen the slow adaptation of automotive systems redesigned to cope with the corrosion issues. Aluminum and phoshor process coatings can't stand up to the test of time. Injector needles dissolved, and fuel tanks failed en masse. Fuel tank floats the size of footballs. I could go on and on.
Truly a double edged sword, this ethanol stuff!! But worth it in the long run, I truly believe. If for no other reason than to give American farmers a long deserved opportunity.
2 cents....Chris
Don't forget to consider ethanol's corrosive nature when your plans to burn it become reality. I am an auto tech (36 years) and have seen the slow adaptation of automotive systems redesigned to cope with the corrosion issues. Aluminum and phoshor process coatings can't stand up to the test of time. Injector needles dissolved, and fuel tanks failed en masse. Fuel tank floats the size of footballs. I could go on and on.
Truly a double edged sword, this ethanol stuff!! But worth it in the long run, I truly believe. If for no other reason than to give American farmers a long deserved opportunity.
2 cents....Chris
I am fully intending to use it in my RV, but it will be a few years before I get off the ground. Our AP for our cert. planes is all for it, and has some experience with it. It has been done for years, and by many people. Just about every university in the corn belt area has worked on it, and there is a formulation called AGE-85 that is blended for aircraft. Yes, it takes more gallons, but in many cases, the cost is half, no lead, no shieks in the desert ordering their own personal Airbus 380's.
www.ethanolairshows.com
www.age85.org
www.ethanolairshows.com
www.age85.org
