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Odyssey et al.

Rainier Lamers

Well Known Member
Appologies in advance for this post, but it has become necessary due to some miss-conceptions. This post has been seeded due to comments under the "test" thread and moved here as this is where it belongs.
This post concernes our Enigma, Odyssey, Voyager and new RF product lines.

Enigma was launched at last years Oshkosh as a full featured EFIS with a size that is right for most homebuilt and factory built aircraft. Based on some six years of experience designing around 45 electronic flight systems, Enigma was designed with a whole host of intentions. The most important being an open system that is easy to upgrade and expand, lowest possible cost while giving best possible overall use in operation. Enigma is a primary flight system (MFD capable), engine and systems monitor (with dual engine and turbine engine support) and of course a full navigation system.
At this point in time, a very active user group has formed (not done or sponsored by us) and software updates tend to be issued every three weeks or so (for free of course) with new functionality. All this is now mostly seeded directly by the users of the system. 3D highway in the sky, 3D forward looking terrain, 3D runways etc are the lastest additions plus a very nice I/O extender that can be used to do just about any control or monitoring (Verbal audio message: "Door open", if a door opens - just one of countless examples).
The idea behind all of this is to make a system that is equaly applicable to just about any application and it is no surprise that Enigma is quite literaly taking the Rotor craft market by storm as a result of this (with certification in the making).
Above everything we value flexibility, ease of use, low cost and being able to keep a unit up to date even though technology changes fast. This includes hardware.
Enigmas like all our stuff, are produced in one of the most advanced, certified electronics production facilities in the southern hemisphere, in the beautifull town of Stellenbosch smack bang in one of the most scenic places on Earth.

Now it's Oschkosh again. This time we have an Odyssey on display and a few of our new technology VHF COM radios (Powerfull, very compact and light, yes - low cost).

Odyssey is just larger than a Garmin 1000 panel. It is 100% Enigma compatible. Same ideas, same databases - everything. But the loveliest, direct sunlight readable screen you will get to see in a while. The cost ?
How would something like $2990 grab you ? Budget $4000 or therabouts for a full system with engine monitoring and all the goodies and add another $3000 for a dual panel Odyssey. Now that is an awesome system, dual WAAS GPS, AHRS, EMU, MFD, NAV, ARINC.... the list goes on.

Voyager is next in line and should be out by the end of the year. Voyager is in effect a smaller version of Odyssey with an 8 inch display (Odyssey sports a 10.4").

Jeppesen Navdata support for the range (which soon will give you SIDS and STARS as well) is in the making, as are interfaces to popular flight planning programs. All of this in addition to our own databases which are open source, including maps - both raster and vector supported at the same time !

That is not the end of it either. But it will remain under wraps for now.

This now brings me to RF.
As of this Oshkosh, we are introducing our RF stuff. The first item is a very nice 3.5" sized VHF COM radio with all the bells and wistles (SL-40 serial communications compatibe - sorry, Garmin). Of course it can be connected to Enigma and Odyssey for frequency selection right from the databases.
The radio features 100 channels, each with alpha ID and function. 6W unmodulated carrier power. Very good sensitivity and zero internal adjustment points (the radio is largely software defined and is allways tuned to perfection). Dual watch and basestation modes with quad watch.
Two place digital VOX intercom (16 bits sampling, HIFI quality).
Lowest cost of any panel mount radio.

Right, this is radio #1. It is designed to be operated with gloved hands and is immensly suitable for open cockpit aircraft.
A version using traditional rotary controls will be released soon after.
Then, early next year our NAV/COM should be ready. Again, watch for unbelivable low price. The days of expensive NAV radios are soon over.
Transponder ?
You bet ! Mode-S comming up...

We are also going to offer super low cost "black box" versions of the VHF/NAV/COM and transponder that plug into our panels for a user interface.

Well,
this has been a long post, and again my appologies. I don't want to sound commercial as this is not what our company does. You read right. We do all of this because we LOVE doing this. We love designing and buiding instruments as much as we do flying them !

I hope this post can give you a bit of a better idea what we do and why we do it. We're a little different. You should know that.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Spoiler!!

Rainier,
I have my screwdriver and hacksaw in my hand and my Steam gauges are history!! :D Any body want first dibs on my six pack?

Wonderful....absolutely,
Pierre
 
I'm due to fly the test phase for a friend starting in a month or so. The aircraft is equipped with an an Enigma. I'm really looking forward to it; the panel in my own RV8 project is currently a blank slate. Couldn't ask for better timing. I'll report here.

Rainier, a double thank you for holding your price point. You certainly have my attention.
 
Multiple Radios?

Lanier,

Will you be supporting multiple 'black box' radios? It would be nice to have 1 vhf/nav/com with a comm-only backup. And, will the nav/com have glideslope capabilities?

Boy, this make panel design easy!
 
Yes, multiple radios are no problem (we will probably limit this to two but that has not yet been cast in stone).
Yes of course the NAV/COM will have glide slope. I'd not call it a NAV/COM otherwise !
In effect it's VHF, VOX COM, VOR, ILS and GS. Pretty similar to a Garmin SL30 (and in fact understands the same serial protocol so it's a plug in replacement). Also includes marker receiver.
MUCH smaller, MUCH lighter, MUCH less power.
Did I forget anything ? Oh yes - MUCH lower price. :)

Rainier

gpiney said:
Lanier,

Will you be supporting multiple 'black box' radios? It would be nice to have 1 vhf/nav/com with a comm-only backup. And, will the nav/com have glideslope capabilities?

Boy, this make panel design easy!
 
While I think of it, What are the chances of getting an 'External Audio' input somewhere for IPods or MP3 players? Or just the capability of wiring such to the black box.
 
gpiney said:
While I think of it, What are the chances of getting an 'External Audio' input somewhere for IPods or MP3 players? Or just the capability of wiring such to the black box.

While I am at it, Stereo would be real nice.
 
Can you design one that makes toast as well. I am sure you have to exhaust all that heat somewhere. It doesn't seem like it would take much to add a toast feature. :D Just a couple of lines of code...

I am not sure I'd want to be an engineer at MGL! The scope creep (also called creeping elegance) must be rampant! :) Just kidding, I imagine it is a heck of a lot of fun! Best of luck to you.

Seriously, as someone who is facing the panel building phase very soon, any innovations that will cut down on the wiring would be great. However, it is also important to maintain flexibility and serviceability. If everything is in one unit, and you have to remove it for repair, you could be grounded for a while. I'd hate to have to cancel a flight just because I my toaster needed repair. :)
 
$4000 or thereabouts for a full system?

Rainier Lamers said:
Budget $4000 or therabouts for a full system with engine monitoring and all the goodies and add another $3000 for a dual panel Odyssey. Now that is an awesome system, dual WAAS GPS, AHRS, EMU, MFD, NAV, ARINC.... the list goes on.
okay,,, 4000.00 (or thereabouts)... where do I send my check? Do you have a suggested retail for your nav/com and com?

Mike
 
This is really starting to sound good.

I'm in the early stages of building my wings, are there any things to consider now? I assume this system works with Van's resistive fuel sending units. Anything special need to be done with the pitot? Anything else that should be thought about early on?

Edit: changed "resistive fuel gauges" to "resistive fuel sending units"
 
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Sounds very interesting but what is the resolution of the Odyssey? The Enigma also looks nice in the pictures but only has 1/4 VGA or 320X240 resolution (big pixels), while both the GRT and Dynon have over twice the resolution.
 
Really ?!?!

So let me see if I understand. I haven't started on my panel yet, but priced a basic 6-pack plus very basic engine guages from Van's and ACS. It was over $5k for a basic vaccuum system round guage VFR panel. Or I could save $1k and buy an Odyssey. Hmmmm, I think I need to add this up again. Could it possibly be that it's cheaper (excuse me: less expensive) to have a 10" glass panel than to have a 50 year old technology panel?
 
Yes!

craigvince said:
Could it possibly be that it's cheaper (excuse me: less expensive) to have a 10" glass panel than to have a 50 year old technology panel?

I did the math several years ago when deciding to go steam or glass on my -8 project, and comparing apples to apples (IFR quality gauges, HSI cpability, etc...) the panel came out the same price either way! That was quite awhile ago in technological terms, so I am not surprised that with all the new systems coming out, the price point has tipped in favor of glass!

Paul
 
Rainier -

Looks so good I might be persuaded to go glass panel even thugh I have a strong preference for steam gauges so far. And your price is excellent.

I work as an avionics software engineer doing FMS and flight display software for C-130, 787, 737, etc, and your stuff looks so much better than what we put into airliners and state of the art military aircraft. Looking at what you guys are doing makes me dread going to work tomorrow to wrestle with antique software driving MCDUs. The people I work with don't have a flying bone in their bodies, nor do they have a passion for flight.

Get that Odyssey working and I will probably buy one. It looks like a way better value than Garmin. Now if we could just get Innodyn to do with turbines what you guys are doing with flight displays...

--Nomex
 
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Quote "All of this in addition to our own databases which are open source, including maps - both raster and vector supported at the same time"

Ranier
Does this mean we can import maps (?topo maps) into yor data base.
At the moment the most useful program for me is using a PDA with a mapping program (Oziexplorer ot Fugawi) to display a GPS moving map with the actual aviation chart as the map.
If you could allow a Geo-Tiff of Tiff etc map to be imported into your unit it would sell like hotcakes in non USA areas, where most GPS and EFIS units maps are rudimentary. If we could import the maps we like (ie scan our own or buy digital maps from various sources) it would solve a very big problem for the non USA world.
John
 
All our COM radios have external audio input. This is mainly intended for connection to our panels for voice promts and warnings but nothing stops you from mixing in a little music !

Rainier

gpiney said:
While I think of it, What are the chances of getting an 'External Audio' input somewhere for IPods or MP3 players? Or just the capability of wiring such to the black box.
 
You are quite correct. In order to tackle this, we only distribute through local outlets which have the ability to service/repair your instrument. We tend to face a much more severe situation here in South Africa. Returning an American instrument for repairs is a major nightmare, very costly and very time consuming (never mind customs - I can tell you long stories about customs).
So, we don't do that. But that is not all. You see, when we started with these instruments (Enigma in particular), we said to ourselves, fine, we can upgrade software with features as they become available - but what about the hardware ? It is a fact that development in semiconductors is rampant and in order to be able to keep ones instrument really up to date, it will sooner or later be required to ugrade some or other hardware. So, we made things modular. The one item that is most in line for hardware upgrade is the processor and memory. Everything else is quite secondary and much less likely to need changing. So, we put this on a little PCB on its own, quick and easy to unplug and replace when the time comes.
Enigma consists of 5 modules, Odyssey has 6.
The spin-off of this is that repairs, if ever required are quick and easy to affect.
This brings us to a "sticky" point. Our instruments are low cost. Not because we use cheap stuff (if you have any electronic knowledge and open one up, you'll see instantly), but because, simply put, we make less money on these things. Much less. The distributors get a big chunk (highest in the industry by far). This is because we see them as part of us and we need them for local support. It has to be worth while for them as it can get costly (people and materials). Shipping from South Africa is VERY expensive.
All this FORCES us to make our instruments as reliable as possible. We simply cannot afford an instrument having to be shipped back to South Africa. Never mind the time and money, it will result in an unhappy customer. That is the very last thing we want.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics

apatti said:
Can you design one that makes toast as well. I am sure you have to exhaust all that heat somewhere. It doesn't seem like it would take much to add a toast feature. :D Just a couple of lines of code...

I am not sure I'd want to be an engineer at MGL! The scope creep (also called creeping elegance) must be rampant! :) Just kidding, I imagine it is a heck of a lot of fun! Best of luck to you.

Seriously, as someone who is facing the panel building phase very soon, any innovations that will cut down on the wiring would be great. However, it is also important to maintain flexibility and serviceability. If everything is in one unit, and you have to remove it for repair, you could be grounded for a while. I'd hate to have to cancel a flight just because I my toaster needed repair. :)
 
Not much - consider what kind of AOA system you want to use. Our instruments support both single ended (Dynon style) as well as differential (AFS style).

Rainier

morlino said:
This is really starting to sound good.

I'm in the early stages of building my wings, are there any things to consider now? I assume this system works with Van's resistive fuel gauges. Anything special need to be done with the pitot? Anything else that should be thought about early on?
 
OK, I am going to tell you to forget resolution. We don't use normal displays. We have some nice custom made stuff.
Why ? Because resolution is only one of many aspects. It may be of importance for your laptop or HDTV but it is less so for an EFIS.

Resolution comes into the picture for sure. Very simply like this: Take your viewing distance (2-3 ft) vs the virtual resolution of your camera - that is your eye. Balance those to get the DESIRED resolution. Why is that important ? Because as your resolution goes up, your display gets crappier (for lack of a better word) in many other respects. It's physics.
We evaluate many (I mean MANY) displays and have an excellent connection to one of the large display manufacturers who further modifies displays for our applications where needed. We take a display outside in bright desert sunlight conditions, we freeze the things to -20 degrees C, we run them at 80 degrees C. But most importantly for us is what does the display LOOK like in a typical installation with and without direct sunlight on the panel. Then we make our choice. At that point we could not care two hoots about the resolution. It simply does not matter. We do what is best overall.

Given current technology, we find a physical pixel size of around 0.2-0.3mm gives the best overall image for our application. Going finer results in less overall light transmission, going larger results in blockiness of the image.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics

BillC said:
Sounds very interesting but what is the resolution of the Odyssey? The Enigma also looks nice in the pictures but only has 1/4 VGA or 320X240 resolution (big pixels), while both the GRT and Dynon have over twice the resolution.
 
Correct.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics.

craigvince said:
So let me see if I understand. I haven't started on my panel yet, but priced a basic 6-pack plus very basic engine guages from Van's and ACS. It was over $5k for a basic vaccuum system round guage VFR panel. Or I could save $1k and buy an Odyssey. Hmmmm, I think I need to add this up again. Could it possibly be that it's cheaper (excuse me: less expensive) to have a 10" glass panel than to have a 50 year old technology panel?
 
You can download a program called "Map maker" from our website which you can use to convert and geo-reference any jpg or bmp image into the open format Enigma raster format.
We don't directly import GEO-TIFF currently (may add that in future), but that is not much of a train smash as you can convert to jpg and then use it.

A further utility is in the making that does the same for our vector maps where you can simply edit them as you like.

Rainier

rjtjrt said:
Quote "All of this in addition to our own databases which are open source, including maps - both raster and vector supported at the same time"

Ranier
Does this mean we can import maps (?topo maps) into yor data base.
At the moment the most useful program for me is using a PDA with a mapping program (Oziexplorer ot Fugawi) to display a GPS moving map with the actual aviation chart as the map.
If you could allow a Geo-Tiff of Tiff etc map to be imported into your unit it would sell like hotcakes in non USA areas, where most GPS and EFIS units maps are rudimentary. If we could import the maps we like (ie scan our own or buy digital maps from various sources) it would solve a very big problem for the non USA world.
John
 
Absolutely

craigvince said:
So let me see if I understand. I think I need to add this up again. Could it possibly be that it's cheaper (excuse me: less expensive) to have a 10" glass panel than to have a 50 year old technology panel?

I have that 50 year old technology in my -6A. It's 10 lbs heavier as well! However, it is coming out and an Enigma going in shortly.

You can't go wrong.
Pierre
 
So let me see if I understand. I think I need to add this up again. Could it possibly be that it's cheaper (excuse me: less expensive) to have a 10" glass panel than to have a 50 year old technology panel?

Several times I have priced out glass vs steam and they are usually a wash. Bear in mind though that steam guages usually fail one at a time. When the EFIS goes black you lose everything.
 
N395V said:
Several times I have priced out glass vs steam and they are usually a wash. Bear in mind though that steam guages usually fail one at a time. When the EFIS goes black you lose everything.

True.
But it's rare that an mulitfunction EFIS would fail completely. Often the failure modes are just like with traditional instruments. Maybe you use a part of the engine monitor, or a gyro packs up, or the aispeed indicator gives up the ghost.

A good installation will never have a power issue (due to backup).

Even so, any "all in one" EFIS should have at least some form of backup, at least for the important stuff. Dual panel perhaps, some steam gauges in the corner perhaps. The airliners do it, and it is a good idea in your RV as well. Does not matter what particular EFIS takes your fancy.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
MY WISH LIST..................

Keep them shallow so there is no need to extend into the sub panel.

Can you post your Booth number?

Thank You!
 
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Rainier Lamers said:
A good installation will never have a power issue (due to backup).

Does the Odyssey have an internal battery backup?


Rainier Lamers said:
Even so, any "all in one" EFIS should have at least some form of backup, at least for the important stuff. Dual panel perhaps, some steam gauges in the corner perhaps. The airliners do it, and it is a good idea in your RV as well. Does not matter what particular EFIS takes your fancy.

My intention is to back it up with a Garmin 496 (or similar) and a handheld radio. I don't think I'll need more than that for VFR (or even light IFR?) flight.
 
craigvince said:
Does the Odyssey have an internal battery backup?

No. None of our instruments have internal backup.
We use external backup batteries. Enigma/Odyssey provide the charging circuitry and terminals. You provide the battery and a location for it.
This allows several advantages.
You decide on the capacity vs. weight you require and feel most comfortable with.
Batteries loose capacity and die. Unfortunately. Having to open an EFIS or send it back to the manufacturer for a new battery is not something we think is a smart idea.
For very light aircraft, you can place the backup battery in a location where it suits your balance.


craigvince said:
My intention is to back it up with a Garmin 496 (or similar) and a handheld radio. I don't think I'll need more than that for VFR (or even light IFR?) flight.

That would work just fine.

Odyssey can be set to ignore the built in GPS if an external GPS data feed is provided. Even though the built in GPS is state of the art with WAAS, EGNOS, RAIM and all the other goodies - it is not certified.
Due to lack of money and patience with buerocrats on our side - we probably are unlikely to certify.

Rainier
 
Approach Capability

Rainier,

First off, thanks for taking the time to answer all of these questions. I have been seriously considering the Chelton systems, but the Odyssey looks better everytime I see it! One capability I like on the Chelton is being able to follow the HITS display down to the runway on an approach. Will the Odyssey be able to do this as well?

Thanks Again,
Mark Hanley
 
flydoc said:
Rainier,

First off, thanks for taking the time to answer all of these questions. I have been seriously considering the Chelton systems, but the Odyssey looks better everytime I see it! One capability I like on the Chelton is being able to follow the HITS display down to the runway on an approach. Will the Odyssey be able to do this as well?

Thanks Again,
Mark Hanley

Yes, both Enigma and Odyssey do that standard.
We call it "GLS" mimiking an ILS approach. Works with the traditional HSI/GS indications as well.
We do however change from the "box" HITS to a row of green crosses, each getting a little smaller as you get closer to the threshold. Firstly this tells you that you are flying a GLS approach and secondy its so easy and intuitive to line up the crosses as you come in. You see the runway coming up as well so that helps to give a visual clue as to how far you are, the crosses are also spaced in extact geographic distances apart so you have a good indictation on distance without having to crosscheck with the numbers (which are also available) - two crosses left and you know its time to suck up and hold breath !
I know the GPS is uncertified, but I am time and again amazed at just how accurate this gets me on the real runway - and we don't even have the support of WAAS for this (No WAAS coverage in South Africa, GPS supports WAAS, EGNOS and RAIM).

As the system is open you can easily create relevant data for any runway, even your little home strip. Just get exact GPS location and elevation for each threshold and exact approach bearing. Emulates the real thing after that to a T right down to marker beacons with relevant morse code in your headphones (if you have the EFIS connected to your intercom).

It's become an option for ILS training here. The instructor creates a "fake" runway (perhaps a little path or bush somewhere) and only he knows where it is. The student then navigates to an intercept and performs an ILS approach. As he has no visual clues he does not need a hood and the instructor can lean back (with traditional grin on face) watching the proceedings. The advantage this has here is that you can practise ILS without wasting expensive time and paying approach/landing fees at a busy airport.

We have setup our demo Odyssey at Oshkosh to a "fake" location just north of the airfield we do our flight testing on. You'll have a GLS approach active and with the connected AHRS can "fly" and look around the 3D terrain (nice mountains around) and look at the approach path and runway in the distance. Quite cute actually. The demo Odyssey is actually running Enigma software - actual Odyssey software will start flight testing in about two weeks. It looks very similar but takes advantage of new and faster hardware which the Enigma software not yet does (and due to the smaller display does not really need). Also, due to the larger size of the Odyssey screen, we will be using 0.1 degree resolution AHRS units. This was not quite ready for Oshkosh so we're using the 1 degree units for the demo.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
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Odysseys mounting depth (behind the flange) is around 2.4 inches. Add some space for connectors. Weight around 4 lbs. Current requirement 1.2 amps at full brightness (about 1000 nits), much less at reduced brightness (night mode). Works from 5.5V to 30V.
That good enough ? :)

Booth 2157 & 2158. Hanger B. SportflyingShop is our U.S. distributor.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics

gasman said:
MY WISH LIST..................

Keep them shallow so there is no need to extend into the sub panel.

Can you post your Booth number?

Thank You!
 
Rainier Lamers said:
Not much - consider what kind of AOA system you want to use. Our instruments support both single ended (Dynon style) as well as differential (AFS style).
morlino said:
I'm in the early stages of building my wings, are there any things to consider now? I assume this system works with Van's resistive fuel sending units. Anything special need to be done with the pitot? Anything else that should be thought about early on?
Rainier,
I think I've decided to go with an LRI. Actually, I think I'll try to make the do it yourself version : http://www.snyder.on.ca/pages/lri.htm

Can I share the LRI probe between an Odyssey and the mechanical differential pressure gauge with T or Y fittings in the tubing?

Will there be issues getting the probe adjusted so that both devices (LRI gauge and Odyssey) read correctly at the same time?

Thanks.
 
morlino said:
Rainier,
I think I've decided to go with an LRI. Actually, I think I'll try to make the do it yourself version : http://www.snyder.on.ca/pages/lri.htm

Can I share the LRI probe between an Odyssey and the mechanical differential pressure gauge with T or Y fittings in the tubing?

Will there be issues getting the probe adjusted so that both devices (LRI gauge and Odyssey) read correctly at the same time?

Thanks.

It will work just fine.
As it states in the website you mention, all of these angle-of-attack, lift reserve, etc indicators all do basically the same thing and just bambuzzle with fancy terms for something the Wright brothers where quite familiar with.

Make sure your LRI is calibrated and working as expected, then just go through the calibration flight using Odyssey (you can view the procedure, which is very simple in the current Enigma manual that you can download from our website).

You can share the pressure between both instruments using simple T-pieces, no problem.

Rainier

CEO MGL Avionics
 
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