Van's Air Force
Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.
The RV-12 Prototype Is Painted
- Thread starter DeltaRomeo
- Start date
RV7ator said:
...from Van's site, "The canopy remains unpainted because we soon will be replacing the prototype canopy with a more attractive pre-production version."b,
dr
Gary Bricker
Well Known Member
Gary Bricker
Well the nose gear might be improved.
Well the nose gear might be improved.
Phyrcooler
Well Known Member
Hmmm... yellow and black would not be my first choice... but that is why we each build our own. Regardless of color - I'm still strongly considering the RV-12 as my first project.
I'm curious how the wing re-design and other issues are coming.
DJ
Regardless of color - I'm still strongly considering the RV-12 as my first project. I'm curious how the wing re-design and other issues are coming.
DJ
BrickPilot
Active Member
Oh no, not that again!Gary Bricker said:
Better getcher flame suit on.PIC'S HOW WIDE!!!!
But thanks for the picture. I thought they were going to recycle that airframe with new wings, canopy and nose gear??
DR, did you say this.......(a nice size for the forums is 700 pixels wide) And then post this 1024X472 pic so we can scan right..... then left..... then right.... till we get to a new page?DeltaRomeo said:
But thanks for the picture. I thought they were going to recycle that airframe with new wings, canopy and nose gear??
What, you don't have two 1280x1024 monitors? <g>.gasman said:DR, did you say this.......(a nice size for the forums is 700 pixels wide) And then post this 1024X472 pic so we can scan right..... then left..... then right.... till we get to a new page?
OK, you got me on that one <g>.
b,
dr
InsideOut said:
I'm with Rob on this one. Its being prepped for the big show. It also may be a hint that the new production fuselage and new wing are not going to be ready for Oshkosh so they have to bring something to represent the 12. I agree that a new canopy and wheel pants will help smooth the appearance.
(As for the monitor wars I'm not sure any size monitor is going to improve the looks of this paint job
Heres my checklist before I pull the trigger.
Wait for the new and improved version to fly.
Fly any light sport with the Rotax 912 to see if I like the engine.
Get a ride in the production intent RV-12 to see if I like the plane.
No matter what color you paint it , in the end its how it flies that counts.
Glad to see some progress being made, even if its just in the marketing side of the business (i.e. fresh paint).
Make mine red.
Frank
RudiGreyling
Well Known Member
Yellow, ouch, not my first choice either...Well it looks like a homebuilt now
Vans was never big on marketing and advertising, the quality of the product, and the feel of the plane in the air has made them a success.
That said, a small budget towards some external designers, would have been nice, because people buy with there eyes first
Vans could even have launched a small competition for the paint scheme! They would have got some very good ideas. The winner gets a small price from Vans, i.e a RV12 tail kit. What an incentive! or some credit towards Vans Products. Vans could then issue standard 3 view drawings in .JPG of the airplane for us to colour, and send back to them. They get good ideas, stir interest, and then choose the winner, and hopefully something that is more pleasing to the eye.
My 2c.
I'm still watching the progress like a hawk, maybe a 2nd project after the current one...
Kind Regards
Rudi
Vans was never big on marketing and advertising, the quality of the product, and the feel of the plane in the air has made them a success.
That said, a small budget towards some external designers, would have been nice, because people buy with there eyes first
Vans could even have launched a small competition for the paint scheme! They would have got some very good ideas. The winner gets a small price from Vans, i.e a RV12 tail kit. What an incentive! or some credit towards Vans Products. Vans could then issue standard 3 view drawings in .JPG of the airplane for us to colour, and send back to them. They get good ideas, stir interest, and then choose the winner, and hopefully something that is more pleasing to the eye.
My 2c.
I'm still watching the progress like a hawk, maybe a 2nd project after the current one...
Kind Regards
Rudi
Last edited:
Stogie 6
Well Known Member
Paint Selection
Come on VAF forum....can't you see that this prototype has a job after Proof of Concept.....it's called Aerial Spray Application or "crop dustin'". I can spray my 3 acre spread with this baby!
DeltaRomeo said:
Come on VAF forum....can't you see that this prototype has a job after Proof of Concept.....it's called Aerial Spray Application or "crop dustin'". I can spray my 3 acre spread with this baby!
Last edited:
Phyrcooler
Well Known Member
I started to jot down an email last night - then saw Rudi's - and it pretty much reflected everything I was going to say.
While color choice is a personal matter, and I've already expressed mine - I think that in the interest of marketing and drumming up enthusiasm and sales come Oshkosh - Van's really should re-think the appearance of his new baby.
He pretty much has his corner of the kit market captured - ie: aluminum high performance, reasonable cost. However, the LSA is a different market - in that he already has competitors (ie: Sonex, Zenith) and will have more (Rans S-19). With the performance restrictions of LSA - Van's can't whip the competition there either. So - it will come down to a lot of perceptions. I hate to see them have to invest in an expensive paint job - but think they need to do something. The current one looks typical low cost/home-built. While this will be the entry level flying machine for Van's... it shouldn't look like it!
Even if they leave the Yellow as a base - and add blue/red - much like the RV-9 seen on Van's website, I think it would look tons better:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-9int.htm
I'm rooting for the home team - but hope that the folks at Van's are listening to our respectfully offered advice. Marketing will be everything for the RV-12. More so than ever before.
Just in case the few of us are way off base... maybe someone more forum savy could start a poll - "Do you like the new paint job on the RV-12 or suggest it be rethought?".
JMHO
DJ
While color choice is a personal matter, and I've already expressed mine - I think that in the interest of marketing and drumming up enthusiasm and sales come Oshkosh - Van's really should re-think the appearance of his new baby.
He pretty much has his corner of the kit market captured - ie: aluminum high performance, reasonable cost. However, the LSA is a different market - in that he already has competitors (ie: Sonex, Zenith) and will have more (Rans S-19). With the performance restrictions of LSA - Van's can't whip the competition there either. So - it will come down to a lot of perceptions. I hate to see them have to invest in an expensive paint job - but think they need to do something. The current one looks typical low cost/home-built. While this will be the entry level flying machine for Van's... it shouldn't look like it!
Even if they leave the Yellow as a base - and add blue/red - much like the RV-9 seen on Van's website, I think it would look tons better:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-9int.htm
I'm rooting for the home team - but hope that the folks at Van's are listening to our respectfully offered advice. Marketing will be everything for the RV-12. More so than ever before.
Just in case the few of us are way off base... maybe someone more forum savy could start a poll - "Do you like the new paint job on the RV-12 or suggest it be rethought?".
JMHO
DJ
Last edited:
I agree that performance is very important. But..... at Oshkosh, when the week is over, the nicest planes are those with the least grass around them. Lets face it, looks sell. Im sure the 12 will be a superb all rounder in typical Vans tradition. It would just be so much better if they gave it a paint job with some thought to it.
As Rudi said have a competition and choose a winner. Wont cost a thing and will be good fun.
EJ
RV7
As Rudi said have a competition and choose a winner. Wont cost a thing and will be good fun.
EJ
RV7
Phyrcooler
Well Known Member
Yes, RV's market themselves - if you are talking about all the other RV's. Van's smokes the competition. However, remember this is being designed to compete as an LSA. Performance is restricted. 120 kts. That's it. They will all claim very similar performance. The "RV feel" isn't experienced until they get the bird in the air. When you walk by the Van's booth and the CFO wrinkles her nose and says "that one is ugly"... it is going to be just a little bit harder to make the sale.hydroguy2 said:
Sorry buddies - but a bit of marketing training will teach you that when so many other factors are similar - LOOKS will be a selling point. Curb appeal.
E. D. Eliot
Well Known Member
RV-12 - Looking good!
Looks pretty darn awesome to me, yellow paint not withstanding. Which wing is this - the 'old' or the 'new' one? Apparently we still have the 'old' canopy.
It would be neat if Van's would quit teasing and bring us up to date about changes to this aircraft. It would only take one or two paragraphs - they can't be that busy?
This will definitely be my first Van's aircraft.
I am hoping that Van's does make the changes mentioned a few months ago. And keep the removable wings option please!!!!!
In spite of the fact that this aircraft will essentially divide the Van's aircraft into two groups (the faster 180 mph and the slower 130 mph groups) I predict that it will prosper as a design and develop its own group of builder/flyer devotees. Not all of those in the 'slower' group will be old men! It's still all about having fun, right!
Also, I think that the RV-12 design has the potential of becoming the C-152 of training of this century. All it needs is a manufacturer. Anybody listening?
Looks pretty darn awesome to me, yellow paint not withstanding. Which wing is this - the 'old' or the 'new' one? Apparently we still have the 'old' canopy. It would be neat if Van's would quit teasing and bring us up to date about changes to this aircraft. It would only take one or two paragraphs - they can't be that busy?
This will definitely be my first Van's aircraft.
I am hoping that Van's does make the changes mentioned a few months ago. And keep the removable wings option please!!!!!
In spite of the fact that this aircraft will essentially divide the Van's aircraft into two groups (the faster 180 mph and the slower 130 mph groups) I predict that it will prosper as a design and develop its own group of builder/flyer devotees. Not all of those in the 'slower' group will be old men! It's still all about having fun, right!
Also, I think that the RV-12 design has the potential of becoming the C-152 of training of this century. All it needs is a manufacturer. Anybody listening?
Mike Armstrong
Well Known Member
Ya, I'll go with the 'they had to do something to it before trying to sell'em at Osh this year' conclusion, but along with the yellow paint job I'll bet a new and alot nicer looking canopy and the wheel pants will also be on it by then. I dont think this is the same aircraft you'll get plans for though. I'm guessing the 'final' design with the new wing, canopy, wheel pants and perhaps resized tail and better paint scheme will look very similar but not what wou'll see at Osh '07.
Last edited:
SweetJellyDonut
Active Member
They call it "throwback"...
It looks to me that VANS was trying to harken you back to the days of the the J-3 Cub. Maybe what they are trying to subtly convey is this will be the plane for the masses.
Hopefully, in keeping in the tradition and spirit of the Cub, the price will be VERY, VERY affordable and have low operating costs.
...Or maybe they were trying to illustrate what a "roll your own" paint job will possibly look like. I figure these are going to be built as frugally as possible. Which means a lot of "garage paint booth" birds at your favorite fly-in, in the near future. I know I'm going to try to shoot my own paint on my -12, so this gives me a gauge of what it will look like (mono color, simple striping, and maybe a rally tail for those few extra knots ).
I, for one, am not all that upset, offended or perturbed by the paint job. I'm just glad they painted the darn thing!
It looks to me that VANS was trying to harken you back to the days of the the J-3 Cub. Maybe what they are trying to subtly convey is this will be the plane for the masses.
Hopefully, in keeping in the tradition and spirit of the Cub, the price will be VERY, VERY affordable and have low operating costs.
...Or maybe they were trying to illustrate what a "roll your own" paint job will possibly look like. I figure these are going to be built as frugally as possible. Which means a lot of "garage paint booth" birds at your favorite fly-in, in the near future. I know I'm going to try to shoot my own paint on my -12, so this gives me a gauge of what it will look like (mono color, simple striping, and maybe a rally tail for those few extra knots
).I, for one, am not all that upset, offended or perturbed by the paint job. I'm just glad they painted the darn thing!
One Step at a Time
The RV-12 already looks better than some of the competition. Actually I like the
yellow. And there is a plus with yellow. It can be spotted easier in the air - collision avoidance.
The pics of the painted RV-12 remind me of a plane that would rather be in the air than on the ground. A real flier.
I really do think Van's is progressing towards yet another winning design.
Can I order mine with a sliding canopy?
The RV-12 already looks better than some of the competition. Actually I like the
yellow. And there is a plus with yellow. It can be spotted easier in the air - collision avoidance.
The pics of the painted RV-12 remind me of a plane that would rather be in the air than on the ground. A real flier.
I really do think Van's is progressing towards yet another winning design.
Can I order mine with a sliding canopy?
Ugliest aircraft ever ...... ?
I don't think it looks Bad either ...... I think it looks terrible.
Van is not really noted for aviation aesthetic - but the RV12 has to be one of the ugliest aircraft ever designed. It is reminiscent of pre cold war East German cars !
Let's hope that they can do something to improve the looks before they send it to market.
Nic
I don't think it looks Bad either ...... I think it looks terrible.
Van is not really noted for aviation aesthetic - but the RV12 has to be one of the ugliest aircraft ever designed. It is reminiscent of pre cold war East German cars !
Let's hope that they can do something to improve the looks before they send it to market.
Nic
uhhuh35 said:
RudiGreyling
Well Known Member
HI Guys,
Pardon my posting pictures of another airplane here, but it is for comparitve reasons...here is what a nice paint job can do! But at $90-100K Ready to fly the evektor sportstar is a bit out of my reach. I really hope that Van can make the final product look as Sexy as this little beauty of a sport plane.
Now be honest if you were the average Joe pilot at Oshkosh looking to buy an airplane, which one will pull your attention??
Regards
Rudi
Pardon my posting pictures of another airplane here, but it is for comparitve reasons...here is what a nice paint job can do! But at $90-100K Ready to fly the evektor sportstar is a bit out of my reach. I really hope that Van can make the final product look as Sexy as this little beauty of a sport plane.
Now be honest if you were the average Joe pilot at Oshkosh looking to buy an airplane, which one will pull your attention??
Regards
Rudi
Jamie
Well Known Member
Huh?. There are few airplanes out there that look better than the RV series, especially in the kit-built market.Skyhi said:
When we fly young eagles we'll have 5 or 6 airplanes out there. Which one do you think all the kids want to ride in? Yep, the RV if there's one there.
OK, I'm going out on a limb here and make a prediction- RELATIVE to the other pulled rivit kit planes that can be flown by a sport pilot, this "thing" will ultimately be considered a flop and a waste of resources by R.V. himself. It is a day late and a dollar short in almost all areas- design, time to market, lack of options(i.e. rotax only), and this is my .02- D_MN, that thing is ugly!!! If they would just make a lightweight version of the 9 with a jabaru, they would sell thousands of them.
the_other_dougreeves
Well Known Member
Well, first, have you priced an Evektor lately? $100k USD isn't going to buy you a lot beyond the basics...RudiGreyling said:
Evektor has always done nice paint jobs on their airplanes. It adds a lot to the perceived value of the airplane.
InsideOut
Well Known Member
elfiero said:
I don't think you could be more wrong... but time will tell, won't it. When Van's gets the wing/canopy/brake/nosegear redesigns straightened out and has the final design flying and announces kit availability... I predict you'll see them overwhelmed with orders.
Just my $0.02.
Let's see- wings, canopy, nose gear, brakes, anything else need fixing before OSH? In my previous post I forgot to mention the fuel tank right behind you- something else to think about if you were to land hard off airport........ Before you say this shouldn't happen, remember these planes will most likely be flown by the lesser competent pilots(me included).
Last edited:
Phyrcooler
Well Known Member
Well... as far as paint jobs... I think this red one is much better. I am not however real impressed with the "Stars" all over the other two. And what's with that huge bubble canopy? It looks like there is about 18" of headroom!! Now THAT is ugly!RudiGreyling said:HI Guys,
I really hope that Van can make the final product look as Sexy as this little beauty of a sport plane.
Now be honest if you were the average Joe pilot at Oshkosh looking to buy an airplane, which one will pull your attention??
Regards
Rudi
Most of these LSA's suffer from the "Bulging cockpit" look due to the efforts to keep weight down. The remaining fuselage is kept trim, causing the canopy to look a bit bug-like. That Evektor's canopy is terrible! Hopefully Van's new RV-12 canopy will not suffer too heavily from this.
Previously Hamp mentioned that the appearance was intended to be a throwback - a la Piper Cub. That is an interesting theory. I love the Cub... even in Yellow. But... nostalgia aside... JMHO - it doesn't work on this style aircraft.
Last edited:
the_other_dougreeves
Well Known Member
Ah, yes, but inside, the canopy is WONDERFUL. The reason it is a big bubble is that the SportStar is based on the Evektor Eurostar, which has a narrow fuselage.Phyrcooler said:
Phyrcooler
Well Known Member
ROFL...
Van: "Paint it bright yellow and see how long it takes them to notice the wing."
Hmmm... so if that is the new wing... and they bothered to paint the garsh darn thing... does this mean they got what they needed out of it?
Sure wish those Van's folks would give us a little more info!
Van: "Paint it bright yellow and see how long it takes them to notice the wing."
Hmmm... so if that is the new wing... and they bothered to paint the garsh darn thing... does this mean they got what they needed out of it?
Sure wish those Van's folks would give us a little more info!
JimLogajan
Active Member
Not sure wing is any different...
Compare these two photos, pre and post paint (open each a different window and flip back and forth):
http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12runup2_lg.jpg
http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/painted/RV-12a.jpg
No mention was made of replacing the flaperons that I recall.
Compare these two photos, pre and post paint (open each a different window and flip back and forth):
http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12runup2_lg.jpg
http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/painted/RV-12a.jpg
No mention was made of replacing the flaperons that I recall.
Mike Armstrong
Well Known Member
Sure looks like flaps and ailerons. Eeegad! Get rid of that ugly canopy and put some pants on please.
Get rid of that ugly canopy and put some pants on please.Stephen Lindberg
Well Known Member
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
I think the RV-12 is good looking. It looks like it has nice flying qualities, judging by the proportions of the tail, wings, and so forth. Plus, it is designed by Van. That means a lot to me. I have every confidence that he will adjust the design until it is right, and he won't offer it for sale until it is. I have seen the airplane at the factory a few times in its original version and I was favorably impressed. The RV-12 would be my current pick of the LSAs if my medical were in jeopardy.
I think the RV-12 is good looking. It looks like it has nice flying qualities, judging by the proportions of the tail, wings, and so forth. Plus, it is designed by Van. That means a lot to me. I have every confidence that he will adjust the design until it is right, and he won't offer it for sale until it is. I have seen the airplane at the factory a few times in its original version and I was favorably impressed. The RV-12 would be my current pick of the LSAs if my medical were in jeopardy.
RudiGreyling
Well Known Member
Regarding different wing
Well Spotted,
If I would guess then just the inboard portion of the Flaperons (Flaps & Aileron combo) are narrower. The picture is not to clear, but there is a definite change midway. Look very carefull at the shadow on the ground, you see both left and right flaperons droop, you can just see the sun shine through on the opposite Flaperon & wingtip clearance. If it was Ailerons the one would be up the other down, or the alignment to the wingtip fairing is way off...I doubt Van would forgo the removable wings.
We know from previous videos and Van's posts that wing close the the fuselage started stalling.
VANS:
From my DIY Radio Control Plane design days...One simple way to try and change the stall without changing the wing is to make the wing chord shorter, at the inboard section, hence trim the Flaperon width. All things being equal, a shorter cord wing with same thickness should stall later than a longer cord wing with same thickness.
I am speculating, but it is interesting....Again, well spotted.
Kind Regards
Rudi
Well Spotted,
If I would guess then just the inboard portion of the Flaperons (Flaps & Aileron combo) are narrower. The picture is not to clear, but there is a definite change midway. Look very carefull at the shadow on the ground, you see both left and right flaperons droop, you can just see the sun shine through on the opposite Flaperon & wingtip clearance. If it was Ailerons the one would be up the other down, or the alignment to the wingtip fairing is way off...I doubt Van would forgo the removable wings.
We know from previous videos and Van's posts that wing close the the fuselage started stalling.
VANS:
From my DIY Radio Control Plane design days...One simple way to try and change the stall without changing the wing is to make the wing chord shorter, at the inboard section, hence trim the Flaperon width. All things being equal, a shorter cord wing with same thickness should stall later than a longer cord wing with same thickness.
I am speculating, but it is interesting....Again, well spotted.
Kind Regards
Rudi
Last edited:
