What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

FM Radio Antenna & Coax

647jc

Well Known Member
I decided to install an automotive CD Player / FM Radio in my panel (mostly because I had the room and it was something I could put in my panel I could actually afford). I probably won't use the FM Radio much but thought I would at least install an antenna in case I wanted to. I bought a cheap auto antenna I plan to mount in the wing tip horizontally and am having problems figuring out what coax to use and where to get the proper fittings to make my own antenna cable. I bought a 20 ft extension cable with fittings already on it but would really like to make my own of the proper length. The auto specialty place where I bought the 20 ft extension cable also told me if I ohmed the 20 ft cable conductor from end to end it would measure 'open'. He said this is correct for a long cable otherwise the length would load the receiver down and it would not work properly. Any advice on FM radio antennas, coax and fittings would be appreciated.

Thx,
J.C.
 
647jc said:
...The auto specialty place where I bought the 20 ft extension cable also told me if I ohmed the 20 ft cable conductor from end to end it would measure 'open'. He said this is correct for a long cable otherwise the length would load the receiver down and it would not work properly. Any advice on FM radio antennas, coax and fittings would be appreciated.

Thx,
J.C.
The auto specialty guy seems to have been speaking gibberish. Auto radio coax is 75 ohm impedence. If by "ohming" the cable he means checking the resistance with an ohmmeter the resistance should be near zero, just the opposite of open. There should be no reason to need to check the impedence, but that requires more sophisticated equipment than an ohmmeter.
 
Larry,

The auto radio guy said measuring the coductor (center conductor) from one end to the other would measure infinite ohms because an antenna extension cable of that length (20 ft) must internally use capacitive coupling other wise it will load down the radio front-end circuitry. A shorter extension cable of 10 ft would measure near zero because it did not require the capacitive coupling. If I make my own antenna coax I'm concerned about this 'loading down' of the FM radio receiver circuitry. Anyway, that's the story.

J.C.
 
647jc said:
Larry,

The auto radio guy said measuring the coductor (center conductor) from one end to the other would measure infinite ohms because an antenna extension cable of that length (20 ft) must internally use capacitive coupling other wise it will load down the radio front-end circuitry. A shorter extension cable of 10 ft would measure near zero because it did not require the capacitive coupling. If I make my own antenna coax I'm concerned about this 'loading down' of the FM radio receiver circuitry. Anyway, that's the story.

J.C.
All I can say is it doesn't make any sense at all to me. Coax is commonly used in lengths of hundreds of feet for communications radios. The issue is there is more loss with longer lengths so, especially at higher frequencies, expensive coax may be required to keep the loss acceptable. I can't imagine a problem with the lengths and frequencies you are talking about.

Sometimes a coupling is used at the antenna, but I have never heard of any capacitive coupling inside the cable run. If anyone has, I would like to hear about it.
 
How about this....

647jc said:
I decided to install an automotive CD Player / FM Radio in my panel (mostly because I had the room and it was something I could put in my panel I could actually afford). Any advice on FM radio antennas, coax and fittings would be appreciated.
Thx,
J.C.
my.php

misclk9.jpg

This is a SANDISC 1gig MP3. about $60.00 on sale. It holds 480 songs that you can download from your cd's or the internet. It also has an FM tuner with 20 pre set stations. Up to 19 hours continuous playback.

Radio Shack sells a booster if needed and also it will "Y" off to two headsets. Plugs right into your audio in on your headset. It uses the wires in the lead as an antenna.

The entire mp3 with battery (AAA good for 19 hours) weighs 1 and 1/2 OZ!!

Save the weight...... Save the panel space.... And save the installation.
Warren;)
 
Last edited:
I use the FM alot. I embedded a real thin bare copper wire into the fiberglass over the roll bar then hooked it to the center of a short piece of coax from the radio. Hidden, close,and easy. I can't rember the length now about 3'. Works great. Lots of stations.
 
Some lighter ideas and may be cheaper

647jc said:
I bought a 20 ft extension cable with fittings already on it but would really like to make my own of the proper length. The auto specialty place where I bought the 20 ft extension cable also told me if I ohmed the 20 ft cable conductor from end to end it would measure 'open'. (What? :eek: ) He said this is correct for a long cable otherwise the length would load the receiver down and it would not work properly. (What again?) Any advice on FM radio antennas, coax and fittings would be appreciated.

Thx,
J.C.
Everyone already addressed the advice audio guy gave you, thumbs down. FM antennas can be a 300 ohm (those flat two conductor wires) or 75 or 50 ohm antennas. The coax must impedance should match the antenna, but the length of the coax is not critical except the longer the more loss you get. I think that's where some confusion is from.

Like Warren, I used a portable radio and plugged it into the intercom. The wire coming from the head set jack (the headset or patch cord) was actually doing double duty as the antenna. It worked pretty good. The point is flying at 8,500 feet, a little foot and half wire in the cockpit got plenty radio stations. A coat hanger will work. However doing 190 mph TAS you go thru radio stations. Assuming typical fringe reception range of 100 miles, you are looking at 60 minutes max per station (probably less) as you scoot by X-C. I used the radio pre iPod. With the iPod I don't bother with radio, but sometimes its nice to get a game or radio show, so I'll pull the portable battery powered radio out.

You can do any damage to the radio with the antenna; it just won't work well, so have fun with it. It just an FM receiver.

I'd suggest may be consider something other than 20 feet of coax and a wing tip antenna. Nothing technically wrong that, should work great. I'd just consider the weight, 3.6 lbs for the coax alone?

I've got some ideas you might like, and it will not require the nightmare of running coax all over the plane (I'd avoid it like the plague):

Windshield antenna that could sit on glare-shield, off of roll bar or under cowl.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-lBbFR7...=232750&I=12044UA200&search=am+fm+car+antenna

-or-

A "Hidden antenna, not sure how it works, its a new thing, but came up in a search.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-lBbFR7...g=232750&I=12044UA20&search=am+fm+car+antenna


How about a real coil loaded antennas that are shorter than a typical full length FM antenna 26 inch to 32 inch:

http://redlemon.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008816074481/pdtl/DVB-T-antenna/1002509715/FM.htm

S1002509715.jpg


or

http://www.installer.com/antenna/ant.html (scroll down)

44-uso1r.jpg

or
http://www.installer.com/photos/44-uag10b.jpg

[You could put any short antenna, in the bag area (RV6/7) with the element next to the plexi. You could just put it under the cowl off the firewall or engine mount, RV-4 next to roll bar.]


On the "roll your own" front, you can take copper tape with adhesive back and place it on the inside of the canopy. People make VHF com antennas this way. Length for 87.5 to 108 MHz, about 25 to 29 inches for a 1/4 wave antenna. You can go shorter it just reduces the gain at the higher frequencies but it will not reject those frequencies. Solider center coax conductor to copper tape, The shield? Usually you ground it to the airframe, but it might work OK with out grounding it. You can by two yards x 1/4" copper tape for $2.00 on ebay.

http://www.semsupplies.com/Copper Tape-CCT-3M.html


Cowl? fiberglass the wire (antenna) in bottom of the cowl of proper length. When you remove cowl, you'll have a plug to disconnect it (no big deal, takes a second). A friend has a VOR antenna in the cowl bottom, works OK, about a 5 or 6 out of 10 reception. I would make what's called a Dipole antenna (see pic below) for the lower cowl. Its just wires of proper length. A dipole is two 1/4 wave or 1/2 wave antenna, so D+D is about 57" ideally. This is an elegant dipole and very efficient. If you can lay that down across the forward part of your cowl you might get some real range. Simple is good.

twinlead.jpg


Gear Leg Fairing? Like the cowl you could make a dipole with one wire running down the front of the gear leg fairing and looping back-up the back of the gear leg faring. Note the feed wire of a dipole is in the middle not the end. This would be 70/300 ohm so you'd might need a matching transformer to 50 ohms, but it may not matter, its just a FM radio receiver. The worst you can do is loose gain or sensitivity. The gear leg bing shorter the antenna will be under the ideal 57", but the wire can run into the cowl area to get close. The possible down side? It could be directional, may be, may be not. The metal gear leg is not helping for sure. Others have tried this for their VHF comm radio. As a transmitter antenna it worked but poorly as I recall. Still it might be acceptable for FM radio reception. It will be hidden.

A homemade antennas could be fun, cool and educational. Its part physics and part black magic. I like the self contained store bought units, but reception with a good tuned homemade can be very good. As I said I doubt you can do any damage to the radio with the antenna; it just won't work well, so have fun with it. Your plan will work but the 20 feet of coax (3.6 lbs) and hassle installing it or removing is the down side I see. It's just a FM radio.
 
Last edited:
647jc said:
I decided to install an automotive CD Player / FM Radio in my panel (mostly because I had the room and it was something I could put in my panel I could actually afford). I probably won't use the FM Radio much but thought I would at least install an antenna in case I wanted to. I bought a cheap auto antenna I plan to mount in the wing tip horizontally and am having problems figuring out what coax to use and where to get the proper fittings to make my own antenna cable. I bought a 20 ft extension cable with fittings already on it but would really like to make my own of the proper length. The auto specialty place where I bought the 20 ft extension cable also told me if I ohmed the 20 ft cable conductor from end to end it would measure 'open'. He said this is correct for a long cable otherwise the length would load the receiver down and it would not work properly. Any advice on FM radio antennas, coax and fittings would be appreciated.

Thx,
J.C.
For the last 9 years and 8 months, I have used a Bob Archer's wingtip VOR antenna as my FM antenna. It has standard RG-58 50 Ohm coax that runs all the way to the radio. I either used a short adapter to go from BNC to the radio plug style connector or installed the correct connector to the radio on the coax.

The best info on radio antenna theory in the thread was written by GMCJETPILOT.

My former ham license WB3KOR.
 
Coax in the gear fairing

The antenna that works for FM is the same as for COM. You can create either one by stripping off 22" of the shield from a length of the coax.

I glassed one of these "antennas" into the leading edge of each of my gear fairings, attached to a coax bulkhead connector in the wingroot. You need the connector to create the ground plane (not to mention providing a way to remove your fairings).

This gives you two non-critical antennas for almost no weight and zero airstream exposure. You can use one for FM and the other for your handheld.
 
647jc said:
I decided to install an automotive CD Player / FM Radio in my panel (mostly because I had the room and it was something I could put in my panel I could actually afford). I probably won't use the FM Radio much but thought I would at least install an antenna in case I wanted to. I bought a cheap auto antenna I plan to mount in the wing tip horizontally and am having problems figuring out what coax to use and where to get the proper fittings to make my own antenna cable. I bought a 20 ft extension cable with fittings already on it but would really like to make my own of the proper length. The auto specialty place where I bought the 20 ft extension cable also told me if I ohmed the 20 ft cable conductor from end to end it would measure 'open'. He said this is correct for a long cable otherwise the length would load the receiver down and it would not work properly. Any advice on FM radio antennas, coax and fittings would be appreciated.

Thx,
J.C.
I have an "Entertainment Subsystem" in our RV. For the FM antenna, I used a "Rubber Duckie" type flexible antenna for cars and trucks mounted to last rib of wingtip. This required the use of an extension cable.

Works fine.

James
 
How does it work

jonbakerok said:
The antenna that works for FM is the same as for COM. You can create either one by stripping off 22" of the shield from a length of the coax.

I glassed one of these "antennas" into the leading edge of each of my gear fairings, attached to a coax bulkhead connector in the wingroot. You need the connector to create the ground plane (not to mention providing a way to remove your fairings).

This gives you two non-critical antennas for almost no weight and zero airstream exposure. You can use one for FM and the other for your handheld.
I know its hard to quantify but how does it work and what does the other antenna gear leg fairing do? 22"? That was for a Com right. It's a little short for FM but it will work I guess. Thanks
 
Last edited:
Back
Top