Prince Propellers

Anyone familar with Prince Propellers?

What sort of price range, quality, customer serive?

They are maple and carbon fiber props. Does anyone know if you can fly these in rain?

Been around for a long time

kevinsky18 said:

Anyone familar with Prince Propellers?

What sort of price range, quality, customer service?

They are maple and carbon fiber props. Does anyone know if you can fly these in rain?

Click to expand...

Do you have one or just asking? There are many props out there. Prince has been around for a long time. I did a web search and I don't find any negative thing about Prince.

I remember Van had a Fixed pitch wood prop shoot-out, competition a long time ago (1990) with Cafe Foundation. He flew his RV-6 and changed out the propeller how may times needed for all props tested (a lot). Some performed better than others and each manufactures "pitch" measurement is different or varies. 10-15 years ago wood props where common, but now constant speed and the metal Sensenich has become more popular. The current popular fixed prop is Catto with the wood/glass construction, but the Catto does cost more than the traditional wood prop. "Back in the day" you could get a wood prop for $500-$800. Wood props with varnish finish are pretty and light. Down side is no rotational mass (like the Prince Maple) and therefore idle is poor. Some use to add the Landoll Harmonic dampener (12 lbs!). It adds weight but makes the idle smoother. On RV-7's too light on the nose can cause CG tail heavy problems, e.g., baggage very limited. On a RV-6 or even RV-4 light props are good.

There at one time use to be a bunch of companies and individuals making wood props for homebuilts, Prince being one. Some manufactures I recall (may or may not be around, no particular order):

Catto
Sterba
Warnke
Prince
Props Inc.
Pacesetter
Performance Propellers
Felix Propellers
Aymar Demuth

You can look up some contacts on the RV yellow pages.

Rain? No wood prop can fly in rain at full power with our damage. Most have a urethane leading edge but it takes a beating as well as the back side of the blade in rain. It's just the nature of the beast, so you slow down and throttle back a little. Even the wood/fiberglass props take a beating but the glass is better than wood but they still need leading edge abrasion strips.

Do you plan on flying in rain a lot, than Sensenich is the way to go. I am a big fan of Sensenich because of price and performance and of course rain is almost a non-issue. I say almost because if you fly any prop through rain long enough at high speed/RPM it will abrade the finish, especially the leading edge. Of course metal is way harder than wood, varnish or fiberglass. They make "water jet cutters" to cut metal and carbon fiber in manufacturing, so enough said.

I would be more worried about service. You will not beat Sensenich, a big company. Also metal props can be re-pitch if you need to, say you reduce the drag on your plane or gain some power with an engine mod. Catto is very popular but than that affects turn around with a small company, but folks like them.

OK so far

See my site, link below. Also see:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=125020&postcount=9
Prince's prop offers some claimed advantages in that:
A. you can run a physically shorter prop for the same effective diameter
B. it changes pitch up to 3 inches in flight automatically

I have not yet verified these claims in my installation, but my performance is OK or better. See my site for numbers.

This is my second Prince prop. My first was about 20 years ago on a Moni motorglider turning 6300 rpm. The P-tip allowed about the same performance with a shorter prop which was to enable using a grass strip without being a lawnmower. Prince's site has pictures of various applications. His link is on my web page.

I would add that you can restore the leading edge of a plastic covered prop but all you can do with aluminum is remove more material to reduce the nicks and erosion. My C-150's prop (1974) is still on the airplane, so this may not be a big deal. I'd worry more about my canopy than the prop, but the prop's speed against the raindrops is, of course, much higher. I would also add what is widely believed that wood is smoother. It is a 14 pound prop, so I think it is lighter than metal, too. I have flown my prop in light rain. I slowed down. I observed no damage or wear. This is not an argument ender, but a useful data point.

Like George said, any prop will be damaged in rain at high speed. My point is, I don't fly that much in rain. When I get into rain, I slow down and look for a way out. I've been flying with wood props for over 25 years and have never had to repair a prop from rain damage. I currently fly a Catto 3-blade (3 years) and wouldn't have anything else. There are many out there who say that you can't fly cross country with a wood prop. Those old mail planes way back yonder had nothing else and the mail still got through.
You guys flying in blinding rain and IFR need metal, otherwise wood props are great.
My $.02

I agree Catto is a good prop for the price. But I just don't know about the wait times. So I'm looking at other options.

The prince is a wood core, carbon fiber outshell prop. I know wood doesn't like the rain, I was just wondering about how the carbon fiber stands up.

Let it rain

kevinsky18 said:

I agree Catto is a good prop for the price. But I just don't know about the wait times. So I'm looking at other options.

The prince is a wood core, carbon fiber outshell prop. I know wood doesn't like the rain, I was just wondering about how the carbon fiber stands up.

Click to expand...

You are really into the rain issue.

All above still applies, but sure the carbon I guess would last longer, however you will abrade the finish and get into the soft resin, which will require refurbishment if you insist on abusing it in lots of rain flying. It's OK, it is what it is. Most all wood prop flyers find its not a big deal, but nothing last forever. You just might wear it out faster. Like Mel said slow down, pull the rpm (throttle back) you will be fine. I think the common wisdom is 2,200 rpm or less is acceptable. Its all about RPM.

Prince is known for their self named "P-tip" which they claim is quieter. I looked in the world wide web, deep dark archives and could not find anything negative about the prop or the manufacture. In the EAA magazine in the classified he has the biggest ad, so it must be good. Seriously price out the prop, extension and if you need the weight (e.g., RV-7) a dynamic balancer. Than look at a Sensenich.

If you have your heart set on a wood/composite wrapped fixed prop its Prince, Catto or I think Warnke. If you really are going to be a submarine officer (fly in rain), than get a Sensenich, plus you get a few more MPH top speed.

You might want to check out the Canard pusher forums; those guys exclusively use wood or wood composite fixed pitch props. They could give you more feed back.

Another prop issue

Another issue to consider with composite propellers is gravel/FOD damage.
Much less of an issue with a taildragger, but a significant consideration with
a nosewheel. Even on paved strips, props have a way of sucking up stuff on the runway and taxiways, and can cause a nasty ding in the backside of the
blade.

After about 800 hours, Van removed the MT from the RV-9A demonstrator because of a ding that was going to require shipment back to the factory.

After much consideration, I have decided to go with the fixed pitch Sensenich
on my RV-9. Cheap, simple, rugged, time-tested.

Lonnie Prince is a "prince" to do business with.

I have flown a Prince Q-Tip on my VariEze for two years with excellent performance, combining both climb & cruise. The Q-Tip was much better than three previous wooden props.

I had the misfortune to receive a disabling stone ding (had to borrow another prop to get home), sent the prop back to Lonnie, who made a beautiful repair, and I had it back in two weeks - still performs just like new.

I'm in the process of buying an RV-3, and will be considering a Prince prop, if I'm not satisfied with the wooden one that's on it.

Prince of a Prince

My Prince prop is great. I've posted several times here about this but here goes again.
I'm running a 68-83 and I get good t/o climb, cruise numbers for a fraction of the cost of a CS prop. Not as good mind you, but a reasonable trade. Like stated above, the disk is only 68 inches but Prince states the air disc moved is equal to a 70' diameter. Nose heaviness is not an issue with the prop weighing about 11 lbs.. The only drawback I've noticed, is the lack of flywheel effect because of the lightness of the prop. I've had to set the idle maybe 50rpm higher to keep smooth idle. On the other end of that though is almost instantaneous throttle response. Always a compromise, but isn't it all.
Lonnie puts protective leading edges on the props but like has been stated above, I wouldn't want to run in rain at high power for long to avoid damaging the prop.
My prop is a work of art with a glossy black finish with the carbon fiber showing through the finish. The p-tips always bring questions when someone sees it. (sometimes asking if I landed gear up.. )My noise footprint brings comments about how quiet my plane is when it flies over. I'm truing 167kts at 8500, 2500 RPM on my IO360. FF 8.1 avg. at the power setting. Down around 2500 feet I get 158KIAS at 2500 rpm.
My experience dealing with Lonnie and his staff brings nothing but praise. If he tells you he will make it right, he will make it right. He delivered on his product and the performance is what he told me to expect.
If you want to talk to me about it PM me with a number and I'll call.