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emsvitil
10-30-2019, 02:22 PM
How long before it's affordable?

https://www.aopa.org/News-and-Media/All-News/2020/January/Pilot/hands-off?utm_source=ebrief&utm_medium=email

Ed_Wischmeyer
10-30-2019, 02:40 PM
The system needs autothrottle (including engine shutoff), control of flaps and radar altimeter, for starters... And maybe a tailwheel endorsement as well. :-)

rdamazio
10-30-2019, 02:54 PM
afaik it also "needs" a TCAS to not hit anyone else on the way down :)

cderk
10-30-2019, 03:28 PM
I would settle for the following functionality on the G3X :D

The auto land functionality with cues on the PFD/MFD for the non-pilot passenger to advance throttle/reduce throttle to get to the right airspeed.

Snowflake
10-31-2019, 08:37 AM
...to advance throttle/reduce throttle to get to the right airspeed.
Except the throttle controls altitude, not airspeed... :)

You'll also need a button to engage this system somewhere a passenger can reach it... In the back seat for tandems.

rocketman1988
10-31-2019, 08:50 AM
"...Except the throttle controls altitude, not airspeed..."

The popcorn is ready!

BCP Boys
10-31-2019, 09:07 AM
Anyway you look it, like it or not, old school or new, you have to admit that Technology is changing this industry for the better. Just 10 years ago I can remember barely seeing activity in and around the airport other than Corporate Jets and a few students. Now, with the advancements of technology in aviation from the way the kit builders are designing their kits to companies like Garmin giving us better situational awareness, automation and just making flying safer. Some may not like the new "gadgets" but I love it.
Here is a little more detail video about auto land. Way to go Garmin! If I was younger I would love to work for Garmin and be a part of this change.

https://youtu.be/d-ruFmgTpqA

airguy
10-31-2019, 10:01 AM
"...Except the throttle controls altitude, not airspeed..."

The popcorn is ready!

Neither is true. The throttle adds energy, it's up to the meat servo (or electric one in this case) to decide where it goes.

rockwoodrv9
10-31-2019, 10:18 AM
This is interesting and I will install it when available. I could see it being useful in some situations and it is amazing that this is even possible for small planes.

I see high time, experienced pilots who are better pilots than I will ever be having accidents way more often than should happen. I dont think this will help the impossible turn crashes but would make my wife feel safer if she could push a button and auto land the plane.

Im thankful that Garmin is developing the system.

sibriggs
10-31-2019, 03:30 PM
[QUOTE=Snowflake;1383239]Except the throttle controls altitude, not airspeed... :)

If the G3X is coupled to a GTN and flying a LPV approach then the throttle is the only way you can control the airspeed. If there is another way with the aircraft being controlled by "GEORGE" and flying the Glide Slope please tell me.

I expect "autoland" is just a really really long coupled approach and throttle would control airspeed and "GEORGE" is controlling elevator trim to maintain the desired altitude.

Comments?

cderk
11-01-2019, 12:01 PM
That?s what I was thinking Steve. The autopilot would control everything and just tell the pilot to advance or dial back the throttle to control the airspeed.

wcalvert
11-01-2019, 12:10 PM
A no autothrottle approach (AT) is often called a "CAT II Monitored" approach when coupled to an ILS.

Following the Glide Slope down the chute on an RNAV type approach is no big tech deal, and having the pilot control airspeed with the throttle is pretty simple too (in a two person crew the pilot monitoring would act as the AT). In a certified aircraft the Radio Alt is critical since GPS isn't accurate enough to determine the start of the flare. In a "Passive Fail" system with no rudder inputs from the AP, assuming you hit the runway and flare properly, the aircraft has no way to track the centerline on roll out (maybe not a big deal here).

So if you can develop an AP that will track Vertical Nav (VNAV) and the course (LNAV) you can fly a RNAV RNP type approach all the way to the flare... then some piloting may be required for the last few feet!

I don't know of any RNAV RNP type approaches that are currently certified for Auto Land in the certified world...

rv8ch
11-01-2019, 12:17 PM
You could just hook it up to your magnetos and the autopilot could fly with whatever throttle setting it has to a safe approach, cutting the mags when it has enough potential energy to make the runway or field.

Believe it or not, all aircraft used to run at full throttle, and cutting the "mags" was how the pilot reduced power.

rocketman1988
11-01-2019, 01:29 PM
"...(in a two person crew the pilot monitoring would act as the AT)..."

Yeah, no...

supik
11-01-2019, 02:18 PM
Great achievement!

AT is not required for Autoland. I can imagine some kind of graphics on the G3X screen commanding the passenger/remaining pilot to operate the throttle as required to keep the airplane flying, but I am sure Garmin has already solved this step. Fadec/AT on the Lycosaurus would be a nice addition and it's long overdue with today's technology.

My guess is that for a G3X system a yaw damper servo and a radio altimeter would be required to accomplish a successful autoland. +the button to activate it :D

EDIT: after reading the article I realized everything was mentioned there. I should read before writing ;)

rocketman1988
11-01-2019, 02:30 PM
"...AT is not required for Autoland..."

Uh, if you don't have AT then it isn't an autoland because you are intervening...

bkervaski
11-01-2019, 02:37 PM
Seems in addition to the 3-axis AP a throttle servo and a mag ground would be all that's needed for a safe automated landing.

May not be as sophisticated as the full solution they are offering with the announcement but it would be way better than the alternative.

Automated broadcast over CTAF or Tower and ADSB should widen the safety margins enough.

I'd install that.

joe gremlin
11-01-2019, 03:03 PM
Don't forget servos for the brakes. Otherwise the system would have no way of steering or stopping once on the runway.

All the media I've seen on this so far talks about autoland as a tool for emergency situations. Pilot incapacitation and the like. Can the system also be used just as an autoland by the pilot i.e. without the automated airport selection, without the automated radio calls and without the 'hey idiot watch this video or die' canned videos taking over the displays.

plehrke
11-01-2019, 03:34 PM
Auto land
Technically feasible- absolutely
Economically practical for general aviation- maybe
Market demand if to be used only for emergencies - very little
Market demand if can be used for any landings - somewhat more than very little
Reduction in general aviation deaths - minimal (save about equal to that from ballistic parachutes but loose some that “hit the button” to land in a situation that should be avoided like bad weather and outside parameters envisioned for the auto land system)

Your opinion may differ.

BobTurner
11-01-2019, 03:55 PM
All the media I've seen on this so far talks about autoland as a tool for emergency situations. Pilot incapacitation and the like. Can the system also be used just as an autoland by the pilot i.e. without the automated airport selection, without the automated radio calls and without the 'hey idiot watch this video or die' canned videos taking over the displays.

For non-emergency use, the system clearly lacks the triple-redundancy built into cat III autopilots, so a rule change would be needed.

Since this system is designed for emergency use only, I think many of us are not too far away already - if the goal is saving lives, not the airplane. I run a Trio autopilot/GRT efis/G420W/SL30 ILS. I'm sure other avionics are equally capable. If I set up a coupled approach (ILS or LPV) at 70 kias/partial flaps, the system will fly the airplane onto the runway (nose first), likely breaking the nose gear, prop strike, possibly exiting off the side of the runway, maybe breaking the main gear if the airplane is in enough of a crab, etc. - but most likely survivable for passengers. "All" that's needed is to automate the initial set up (to something a passenger can do), and to set the throttle to an appropriate setting.

wcalvert
11-02-2019, 01:47 PM
... and I was going to bring up the issue of the Go Around after you cut the engine.

David Carter
11-03-2019, 03:58 PM
A couple of people have mentioned the need for a radar altimeter to determine the height for the landing flare. Seems that Garmin has a much less expensive solution for this - a LIDAR sensor that they currently sell for USD 130.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/557294

This is being used already in some of our experimental planes as a component of this product:

https://www.enginebridge.com/product/landing-height-controller-copy/

supik
11-04-2019, 03:11 AM
A couple of people have mentioned the need for a radar altimeter to determine the height for the landing flare. Seems that Garmin has a much less expensive solution for this - a LIDAR sensor that they currently sell for USD 130.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/557294

This is being used already in some of our experimental planes as a component of this product:

https://www.enginebridge.com/product/landing-height-controller-copy/

Thanks, I had no idea about it..

emsvitil
11-04-2019, 03:23 AM
Does the landing lidar have a continuous display mode, or is it voice only?

andrewtac
11-04-2019, 07:17 AM
Does the landing lidar have a continuous display mode, or is it voice only?

Voice only

bkervaski
11-04-2019, 07:36 AM
Don't forget servos for the brakes. Otherwise the system would have no way of steering or stopping once on the runway.

I think we can skip the brake servos .. once on the ground and slow enough where rudder authority is lost the job is done, lives are saved.