What 3X rivetgun do you use ?

Hello All,

Im getting the extra tools that I need to complete a nice tool kit. Im now up to what sort of 3X rivet gun.
So far I can see that the most popular is the Avery Sioux 3X at $310, but has anyone used the Cleaverland 3X at $175 or the ATS 3X PRO for $169.

I would like to go with the Cleaverland gun, but would like to hear from anyone that uses the ATS PRO gun.

I've got my RV-7A Prev-plans, tooling up now for a start at Xmas

Jamie-

I bought the Sioux 3X, then returned it. It did not seem to have as good a "teasing" trigger as other guns I tried. Also, there are two "types" of rivet guns (and I can't remember specifically which fall into which group) but Sioux has a larger diameter barrel than many of the others (i.e. Chicago pneumatic and clones) - hence it requires larger springs and won't work with some of the swivel flush sets (since the beehive is attached).

I bought a 3X CP clone from planetools.com for just over 110$ and have been VERY happy with it.

Thomas
RV-8 empennage

3X rivet gun , why not 2X

2X is plenty big for 3/32nd & 1/8th rivets.

Unless you are driving 3/16 rivets for an old RV kit a 2X is the biggest gun you should need. Also if you have to drive a larger rivet I would suggest a pneumatic squeezer. George

Just did a bit more reading RE: ATS PRO rivet guns, and they say " it's backed by our industry leading unconditional lifetime warranty. "
I have seen some warranties that are lifetime this can be the design life of the tool, some times only a few years, but this UNconditional lifetime warranty sounds good. I will send them an Email to find out more.

IF anyone has an ATS rivet gun, please let me know if you like it or not.

I think I will stick to a 3X gun, I like to have the extra power if ever needed.

with thanks

jamie

I have the ATS 3Xpro (new model) works great very good trigger.
A tip - use a mini air regulator right on the gun (not the valve that comes with some guns) about $20 at most home stores.
Frank K

3X rivet gun will make a bigger dent than a 2X

Jamie Aust said:

I think I will stick to a 3X gun, I like to have the extra power if ever needed. with thanks jamie

Click to expand...

You are going to get poor looking finish. A 2X hits faster and lighter. I can set 3/32, 1/8 5/32 rivets of any grip length needed. The 5/32 is a repair size.

The 3X will hit harder with a bigger piston less times. It can beat the metal more than needed to set the rivet. Look here:

http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=RG2X

Select the video comparing the 2X to 3X to 4X. Select real player 56K or 256K.

It is up to you but the 3X will be bigger, heavier and a little harder to manage, which can increase the chance of dents. Trust me you will not need more than 2X. A 2X on full 90 psi is a lot of power. Also get an air regulator that goes right on the gun to fine-tune air pressure to the min for the size of rivet you are using. Adjust air pressure each time you change rivet diameter or to some extent length. The 2X with proper air pressure will set the rivets almost automatically to proper set. Even with the air pressure truned down on a 3X it hits less times and with a bigger force than a 2X. Both work fine, I just like the smallest rivet gun needed. When banging on you aluminum skins, bigger is not always better.

George

With a 3x gun you can always lower the air pressure to make it behave like a 2x gun. It doesn't quite work the other way around. Obviously, some prefer the 2x, and that' fine, but I also know a number of builders who have started with a 2x and gone to a 3x pretty quickly and much prefer it now. I'm partway into the wings and so far have not messed up any rivets with the 3x. Either gun will work though.

I have the 3x from Cleaveland (its a Taylor) and I like it. I wouldn't suggest spending that much more for the Sioux unless you've got cash to burn.

Good luck,

Steve

I own and regularly use an ATS 2x gun. I also occasionally use borrowed 3x and 4x guns. I found the larger guns require two hands on the gun and one on the bucking bar. Not always practical. The 2x gun will fit the bill 99% of the time. Squeeze the rest.

Steve
left wing tank

I built my entire 4 with a 3X gun I got from Avery back in 98. It has no name on it so it must be a clone of something. It has worked perfectly the whole time and has not banged things up like some have said a 3X would. If a 3x and 2x are run at the same pressure, the 3X will hit harder but a bit slower. If you simply back the pressure off you can get any power you want. I've found that if you go with too soft a hit, it takes so many whacks that it ends up doing more damage than using slightly harder hits. The optimal level is somewhere in the middle. With either gun, be sure to invest in one of the big swivel flush sets.

Steve Zicree

The 3x vs 2x debate is about as useful as IBM vs. Mac. My opinion is you need only one gun and it won't much matter which one because you'll become proficient at whichever one you choose.

Personally, I use a 3X gun because it's the one I saw first when I was shopping for tools and I didn't know diddley and I figure a 3x has to be better than a 2x. I bought it from Avery and I can tell you it sure as heck didn't go for $300.

It does everything I need it to do.

But I suspect that a 2X gun would've done just as well and some things it probably would do better than others, but once I learn the properties, I can adjust things accordingly.

Two rivet guns? Nah......

Flip a coin.

Oh my Bob, IBM vs. Mac rivet guns

Bob Collins said:

The 3x vs 2x debate is about as useful as IBM vs. Mac.

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Oh Bob, Bob, Bob, I don't refute you right to use IBM, MAC or an abacus, but check the Cleveland tool link above showing a video of 2X and 3X. I agree it is a small point, but you would agree (if you ever used a 2X) it is easier to handle and has plenty of power to get the job done 99% of the time; Squeeze the rest as was said before. For most brands the 2X is lighter and more compact than the 3X, which is a good thing. Cheers George

PS: There is a big difference between PC and Mac. You can buy a P4 Dell for less than $400. What does a Mac cost? If my rivet gun had an operating system I would go with Windows 2000.

gmcjetpilot said:

Oh Bob, Bob, Bob, I don't refute you right to use IBM, MAC or an abacus, but check the Cleveland tool link above showing a video of 2X and 3X. I agree it is a small point, but you would agree (if you ever used a 2X) it is easier to handle and has plenty of power to get the job done 99% of the time; Squeeze the rest as was said before. For most brands the 2X is lighter and more compact than the 3X, which is a good thing. Cheers George

PS: There is a big difference between PC and Mac. You can buy a P4 Dell for less than $400. What does a Mac cost? If my rivet gun had an operating system I would go with Windows 2000.

Click to expand...

Hehehehe. Good one. No, I don't have a problem with Cleveland's opinion and I've seen the video. And I like Buzz and the gang just fine. However, I also recall they used to put a note in their catalog next to the swivel head, rubber guarded flush rivet set basically saying "don't buy this, recommended by many people but not by us." You know, everytime I use that thing, I wonder what the person who wrote that was smoking.

So when I see Cleveland say that a 3X will screw up your skins, my first reaction is, "too bad you weren't using a swivel head flush rivet set." (g)

I actually have never used a 2X gun but I'll take your word for it that it's easier to use. The 3X gun is all I know and, like I said, I handle it fine, the skins look great, and people become proficient -- eventually -- at whatever gun they buy because it's all they know.

It's kind of like when my kids were younger and they'd get mad at me and tell me what a lousy father I am. And I'd say back to them, "how would you know? you've never had another one?" That used to drive 'em crazy. Which of course is the goal of fatherhood.

What about sets?

Hey guys thanks for the info on the guns. I am just getting ready to get started with the RV9A project that adopted me as its builder. I am new to this riveting task. It addition to the type of rivet gun I should be thinking about, what kinds of sets and bucking bars should I be thinking about getting that you would consider absolutely necessary? Which ones might you consider optional but good to have? Also, at present I am not sure how much help I am going to be able to expect when it comes to a second set of hands. How difficult will setting rivets be if it were done by one person?

Thanks for any info you can provide.
RVBYSDI
Steve Ingraham

Probably a dumb question, but is there any advantage of conventional rivets over blind rivets?

Don't know about strength, but the pulled rivets cost a whole lot more. They also don't look nearly as good.

Steve Zicree

As a recent rivet gun purchaser, let me jump into this one...

At first I was leaning toward the 2X gun (barely leaning), it being lighter than the 3X, but at the last minute someone posted (on another forum) a quote from the book "Standard Aircraft Handbook" which on page 107 says, "Always select a rivet gun size and bucking bar weight that will drive the rivet with as few blows as possible."

I took that statement literally and ran with it... I bought a Sioux 3X from Brown Tools at a great price ($244). I will say that the trigger on my gun is awsome... it can be feathered quite easily, with amazing control, much better in fact than the generic 3X gun I recently used at a SportAir workshop. Take this with a grain of salt however, I have never built a plane before, and I just received the gun and haven't even used it (on rivets) yet.

A pic of the gun can be seen here...
http://www.rv7factory.com/log/050523.html

Good Luck,

To pound or not to pound

RV7Factory said:

"Always select a rivet gun size and bucking bar weight that will drive the rivet with as few blows as possible."

.......I will say that the trigger on my gun is awsome... it can be feathered quite easily, with amazing control, much better in fact than the generic 3X gun I recently used at a SportAir workshop.

Click to expand...

Not to pound this into the ground, pun intended , but you hit the rivet on the head, control. Most good quality guns (2X, 3X 4X) have good teasing triggers. Power is not an issue. Not sure the higher price Sioux ones are that much better, but money in good tools is always well spent, especially for a prime tool. I have a Taylor/Ingersol(?) for 15 years and works great.

The key is control. True you should not take too long to drive a rivet but that does not mean you should get a 4X rivet gun. I think the opposite, what is the smallest gun to get the job done. There is only so much force you can use on a small rivet. Factors in rivet driving time is hits per minute, force per hit and size of bucking bar. The 2X drives @ 14-19% faster hits per minute than a 3X, so you can actually drive faster on a small rivet if you crank the pressure up. Speed or force is not an issue when driving small rivets, 2X or 3X. The 3X does have the potential to hit harder and drive larger rivets, but you are not using its capacity for a small rivet. For the record a 2X will drive any rivet up to 5/32 rivet as fast as you want (dare), you are only using about 40-50% of its capability. Drive time should be around 1 to 1.5 seconds so you get the happy Burrrrrrrraaaaaaa.. sound. I also use the biggest bucking bar I have or can fit, that drives it faster as well, but always use the min pressure to get the 1-1. 5 second drive.

Happy riviting 2X or 3X

Good points. I'm in the middle of center fuselage work now and 2x, 3x...I don't know....I'll tell you what I think is THE most important thing about riveting:

TAKE YOUR TIME!!!!


Use a couple of short bursts to set a rivet and then complete it with a few more hits.

Whenever I've gotten into trouble, it's because I got into a mindset of trying to be Rosey the Riveter...just firing bursts of the rivet gun and getting all out of control like someone holding on to a runaway firehose.