SDS CPI2

[rv6ejguy]

Glad you like the quality of the system.

You should have received a paper copy of this document: http://www.sdsefi.com/em5aviationpinout3.pdf

2 wire sensors are not polarity sensitive.

3 wire connectors are wired 1 orange, 2 white, 3 blue, or A, B, C in that order except:

MAP where C is orange, B is white and A is Blue

TPS - I'll update that from work on Sunday, can't recall for sure

[svyolo]

Yeah I have that, and I think CBA are marked on the MAP sensor or connector, but very small. I couldn't figure out the TPS, but haven't tried hard yet.

The machining and finish work is spectacular.

[rv6ejguy]

TPS wiring is:

1 orange
2 blue
3 white

Glad you like the machining, I'll pass that along to the guys that do the CNC work. We pride ourselves in making parts pretty and functional.

[svyolo]

I had dinner with my drag racing buddy. I brought a injector mount and a coil mount. He said "I don't know that these are, but I want to buy them."

[rdrcrmatt]

Ross,

Do you have approximate run times on the backup battery for a single and dual controller setup?

I'm intersted in 6 cyl, but I assume the times would be slightly different for 4 cyl too.

[rv6ejguy]

A single 4 cylinder setup should run about 90 minutes, dual 4 about 40, single 6 about 60 minutes, dual 6 about 25.

We do have ways of saving more power when on backup by cutting coil charge times (can extend run time by 20-25%) and shutting off one coil pack on dual systems to extend run times on the backup battery past these times.

https://live.staticflickr.com/7862/33687772148_fb05dd3a77_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TjSCZJ)

So if you lose the alternator, you should be able to run many hours on the main battery if it's 18-24 amp hour, when that depleted, then run on the backup for the additional time above.

The CPI-2 will give you visual and aural warning when the alternator goes offline, show you primary and backup battery voltage and automatically switch to backup when the primary voltage falls below a pre-set level.

EDIT- Be aware that battery capacity drops with age/ cycles and temperature extremes. The above is for room temperature conditions and new batteries.

[Tmartin66]

Ross,

I have been looking for some overall dimensions of the CPI-2 control box and backup battery with the battery box. These would be helpful for planning purposes for those considering the CPI-2. I have looked on your website so forgive me if I have missed them.


Thank you,

[Mjuckes]

I believe it?s on page 3 of the installation manual. Go to the CPI2 link scroll to the bottom and you should see the installation link.
Hope that helps

[rv6ejguy]

We'll add battery box dimensions to the manual next week. Controller and programmer dimensions are in the latest manual revision.

[Tmartin66]

I figured I was just missing it somewhere.

T

[leok]

Ross,

Just received the electronics to complete my CPI2 dual system. Wow! It's a shame to burry these parts under the instrument panel. They deserve to be out where people can see them!


One quick question; Other than making sure water doesn't follow the wires into the CPU, is there any specific mounting orientation preference? I will add a drip loop to make sure water intrusion doesn't happen.

[rv6ejguy]

Glad you like the parts. You can mount the controller in any orientation as long as the drip loop is there. Otherwise, connectors down if the loop isn't possible.

[Chkaharyer99]

Ross,

I received my CPI2 dual ignition system along with the SDS backup battery tray. The quality of the machining and finish is exceptional. The wiring harness look fantastic.

Looking forward to the installation.

Thanks,

[rv6ejguy]

Glad you like. Thanks for being so patient.

[rv6ejguy]

We've updated the CPI-2 manual again for those interested, near the bottom of the page: http://www.sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm

Units are trickling out this week. I was away last week which put a crimp in deliveries. Should be back to full force next week.

Time permitting, I'm going to try to shoot a video of the components and basic features of the CPI-2. Not sure when I'll get it edited and uploaded, hopefully early May.

I hope to follow with a more in-depth video explaining all the windows and their functions.

[rv6ejguy]

April 26/19 Service Bulletin Regarding 18 to 14mm Spark Plug Adapter Installation

Due to a number of broken brass plug adapters, we've changed the procedure for installing these as follows: 1. Thread the spark plug into the adapter 2. Torque the assembly into the cylinder head using the PLUG hex to 19 ft./lbs. 3. Torque the ADAPTER further to 25 ft./lbs.

Use only a thin stripe of anti-seize compound on the plug and adapter. Do not coat the threads. Although we've done multiple yield tests on the adapters torqued into a fixture and they fail at 32-35 ft./lbs., a number of people were snapping them at the originally recommended torque of 22 ft./lbs.

[rv6ejguy]

Just uploaded this video late last night showing some more details of the hardware and features of the CPI-2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq8jIAEU27o&t=323s

On the production front, we are shipping a few out every week from our back order list. The next PCB run is being planned now and parts will be ordered next week. This should allow us to continue production in late June to hopefully complete all the back orders and start on new orders in July.

Our third CNC contractor will be completing approximately 1000 more parts, mainly for the CPI-2 and EM-5 this month, to aid in this production ramp up.

Some have asked the question if a 6 cylinder version is available as that may not have been clear. Yes, just like the original CPI, we released 4 and 6 cylinder versions simultaneously.

[rv6ejguy]

Some people have questions about switch layouts on the CPI-2.

Here are some possible ways to wire the controllers:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33981099808_9e368862e8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TLN26b)

Hope this helps clarify.

[Ken Harrill]

How do the controllers know not to use the backup battery when you open the switches? My concern is how to avoid a “hot” prop, especially without knowing it.

[rv6ejguy]

Software needs to see one synch magnet and 2 trigger magnets (4 cylinder) within a certain time span before it will initiate any spark. No chance the engine will fire by turning the prop even a half revolution.

The system will switch to backup battery any time there is no or low voltage (below the set threshold). There is a time out on this feature so it does not run the backup battery down. I believe that is around 30 seconds.

The system is purposely designed to stay active unless you purposely shut it down.

[Chkaharyer99]

Some people have questions about switch layouts on the CPI-2.

Here are some possible ways to wire the controllers:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33981099808_9e368862e8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TLN26b)

Hope this helps clarify.

Ross,

I have a dual CPI-2 with SDS backup battery for my IO-360 with CS prop. RPM is limited to 2700. I intend to use the two switch configuration shown in your diagram.

Looks like your red (high current) wires are 18 gauge but on dual boards there is two. One for each board.

What size wire should I run from the battery to the two (high current) switches depicted in the diagram?

What size should the fusible link be?

Thanks

[rv6ejguy]

In an RV, 18 gauge wire should be fine for the high current runs and a 15 amp fusible link.

[Av8rRob]

Hey Charlie, I live near you and would love to come look at your CPI2 setup if possible. Any chance you can private message me or email av8rrob@gmail.com


Ross,

I have a dual CPI-2 with SDS backup battery for my IO-360 with CS prop. RPM is limited to 2700. I intend to use the two switch configuration shown in your diagram.

Looks like your red (high current) wires are 18 gauge but on dual boards there is two. One for each board.

What size wire should I run from the battery to the two (high current) switches depicted in the diagram?

What size should the fusible link be?

Thanks

[Tmartin66]

Guys,

I am on Ross's list for a CPI2 duel ignition with a backup battery. I would love to see pictures of your installation if possible.

Thanks in advance,

Tony

[rv6ejguy]

I uploaded a new supplement for Lycoming CPI-2 engine hardware which should help to better clarify details on the coil pack, crank sensor and bracket plus spark plug and wire assembly/mounting: http://sdsefi.com/cpi2lychard2.pdf

One thing we have seen many times now on the CPI and EM-5 is that people measure their front crankcase bolt spacing incorrectly so they get the wrong crank sensor mount supplied. This costs time and money for both parties.

It is a bit difficult to measure that dimension with the flywheel installed so I suggest using a strip of thin cardboard that can be inserted inside the flywheel to rest against the case through-bolt tips. Cut this to 3.50 inches long and see if the edges line up with both bolt centerlines. If the gauge is too wide, trim length to 3.25 and try again. The dimension will be either 3.25 or 3.50.

Update on the next batch of CPI-2 boards- we started shipping parts to the PCB loading facility already and hope these will be in production process by the second week in June. We've also stock piled lots of 4 and 6 cylinder coil packs, mag covers, spark plug adapters, crank sensors and mounts. We hope to be able to ramp up output as soon as we receive the completed boards back.

BTW, thanks to our new customers who've given us feedback to improve the documentation for this product. Always welcome.

[rv6ejguy]

The second set of boards and components are now at the loading/ soldering facility. Looking forward to having completed boards in hand later this month and clearing the order backlog.

[cardinalflier]

I am close to flying my 20 year old RV6 with newly installed CPI-2. I removed an original LS for the SDS.
Some of the issues I ran into were, first, the plan was to purchase the dual system, using only one side of the system and keeping one mag until I was confident in the system. Ross and Barry thought this would work fine. It didn't. The CPI-2 is a smart system, and gave me the red fault light with 3 faults when I first powered up the system. Because the controller is a dual board, the primary board that I wanted to use wanted to communicate with the second board which I had not powered up yet. Also, the system was looking for the back up battery because it was a dual system. So, I ordered more circuit breakers, switches, backup battery and holder, and installed them. Red fault light gone with no faults showing on the controller. Barry figured this one out for me and I am sure he is amending the installation instructions.

Next, the diagram that I received showing the "mag cut" wire hook up wasn't correct. Again, Barry to the rescue. New wiring instructions were sent to me.

I wasn't aware of the recent You Tube videos by Ross, showing a lot more of the system than is shown in the instructions. Also, be sure and download the latest instructions, don't rely on what is sent to you as there might have been changes. This created a few problems for me until I watched the videos. There is a LOT of good info in the videos

I ran my engine again this morning and checked everything. All is good except my Dynon is not showing RPM from SDS. I'm still working on this issue. So, I am close. Through all of this, Barry and Ross have been EXCEPTIONAL in quick responses and fixes to the various issues. I can't say enough about the support from them.

When you go through the set up instructions is when you can really appreciate what a GREAT system the CPI-2 is. Thanks Barry and Ross
Bruce Estes

[rv6ejguy]

Thanks Bruce. Your feedback is leading us to revise a couple things in the manual to improve clarity and you uncovered something in the software which was giving you the gibberish on one line of the display due to that setting. Barry found the reason and rectified that now.

Thanks for your patience. The manual is pretty long but most things are just set up initially and then not used again but those setups are critical for the device to work properly. It will detect most things which are not set right and give a fault warning.

Sorry about not sending you all the documentation you should have received. That was my oversight.

The unit outputs a 12V square wave tach signal, 2 pulses per crank rev on 4 cylinders, 3 on 6 cylinders engines. Hopefully the Dynon can be configured for that.

[N546RV]

The unit outputs a 12V square wave tach signal, 2 pulses per crank rev on 4 cylinders, 3 on 6 cylinders engines. Hopefully the Dynon can be configured for that.

This is of interest to me; I'm planning on going with the CPI2 and a Skyview panel. Here's what the Skyview install guide has to say about RPM inputs:

The SV-EMS-220/221’s Standard Voltage RPM inputs can read frequency-based RPM signals, provided the peak voltages goes at least 5.1 volts above ground, and crosses back down below 2.0V relative to ground. If the peak voltage exceeds 50 volts, use the included 30 kΩ resistors as described in the P-lead pickoff (Lycoming and Continental) Section above.

For signals that have a peak voltage of 12V or lower —such as Light Speed ignition outputs— use the low voltage RPM inputs. These inputs require that the peak voltage goes at least 2.1 volts above ground, and crosses back down below 0.8V relative to ground to be counted as a pulse.

For signals that have a peak voltage of 10-12V, either the Standard or Low Voltage RPM inputs can be used.

Like the other methods above, you must know the number of pulses per revolution for your RPM transducer.

So it certainly seems like the CPI2 ought to be able to drive the Skyview tach input with the proper configuration.

[David Carter]

So, I ordered more circuit breakers, switches, backup battery and holder, and installed them.

Bruce - I'd love to see pictures showing how you mounted both the main controller board housing & the backup battery holder. I'm working on the install on my RV-7A, just finished FWF & moving to the stuff behind the panel.

Thanks!

[cardinalflier]

David: The empty space behind my panel is VERY limited because I have a LOT of Dynon stuff. So, I mounted the controller on the forward side of the bulkhead forward of the instrument panel. Not the easiest to get to with a slider, but it works. I mounted the backup battery forward of the fuel selector. I installed an Airflow Performance fuel pump forward of the fuel selector last year by making a plate that fits between the two floor stringers forward of the fuel selector. This plate is flush with the top of the stringers and attaches with screws thru the side of the stringers. The pump sits on top of this mounting plate. I lengthened this plate and mounted the back up battery on this plate, forward of the fuel pump. Everything is covered by a sheet metal console that attaches to the plate. I covered this console in black carpet to match my floor carpet and the console is barely noticeable. Bruce Estes

[cardinalflier]

Toolbuilder: I don't check my P.M.'s on a regular basis so sorry for not getting back to you. I really prefer email as that gets checked often. Compressions are stock and I have the dual controller. Bruce Estes

[David Carter]

David: The empty space behind my panel is VERY limited because I have a LOT of Dynon stuff. So, I mounted the controller on the forward side of the bulkhead forward of the instrument panel. Not the easiest to get to with a slider, but it works. I mounted the backup battery forward of the fuel selector. I installed an Airflow Performance fuel pump forward of the fuel selector last year by making a plate that fits between the two floor stringers forward of the fuel selector. This plate is flush with the top of the stringers and attaches with screws thru the side of the stringers. The pump sits on top of this mounting plate. I lengthened this plate and mounted the back up battery on this plate, forward of the fuel pump. Everything is covered by a sheet metal console that attaches to the plate. I covered this console in black carpet to match my floor carpet and the console is barely noticeable. Bruce Estes

Bruce - thanks for the detailed write-up, it has given me some ideas.

[cardinalflier]

Did my first flight today since installing the SDS CPI-2 electronic ignition, using only one system initially. Almost everything worked as expected, no surprises. Only flew for about one hour. I still don?t have a tach signal on my Skyview from the SDS, but Dynon is going to help me tomorrow. The SDS is not plug and play like some other electronic ignitions, but has MANY features not available on any other system. Barry and Ross from SDS have been great to work with on this installation. Bruce Estes

[Chkaharyer99]

Did my first flight today since installing the SDS CPI-2 electronic ignition, using only one system initially. Almost everything worked as expected, no surprises. Only flew for about one hour. I still don?t have a tach signal on my Skyview from the SDS, but Dynon is going to help me tomorrow. The SDS is not plug and play like some other electronic ignitions, but has MANY features not available on any other system. Barry and Ross from SDS have been great to work with on this installation. Bruce Estes

Great news Bruce! Glad it worked out.

[isosceles]

.

Did you ever consider adding a prop balancing feature to the ignition module? You already know the crank position...

[rv6ejguy]

There is insufficient resolution with the triggering setup and there would be other hardware required. Something like this would have added 6-12 more months to development and product release on something which already took a year more than expected to develop test and test.

[cardinalflier]

My CPI-2 is running but I have an issue that Dynon and SDS have not been able to solve. I get a 0 RPM reading from my Skyview when I kill the mag. I am running one side of of the dual SDS system, retaining my mag until I am comfortable with the SDS system. Has anyone who is running an earlier SDS CPI system and Dynon Skyview run into this and how did they solve the problem? Any suggestions will be welcome. Thanks, Bruce Estes

[Toobuilder]

So when you ground the magneto, you get no RPM reading on the Dynon? Is the magneto the source for your RPM signal?

[cardinalflier]

Dynon reads a mag/ignition signal. If one signal goes away, like a mag check, Dynon immediately reads the other signal. When I kill the mag during a runup mag check, the Dynon reads 0 rpm. There are two inputs to the Skyview.
Per Dynon, I?ve tried both of them. There is only one output from SDS. I tried with no resistors and then tried with resistors recommended by SDS. No success. The Skyview config options only deal with pulses per minute so I think Ishould get something, even if not accurate, for a tach readout from SDS to my Skyview. I am open to any suggestions to fix this problem.

[cardinalflier]

Also, my plan is to run one side of my dual system for a while, then complete the wiring, dump the remaining mag, and go all EI. But, I need the Skyview to read the signal from SDS, otherwise I will not have a rpm reading with the dual system. Thus, the importance of getting this solved now. Bruce Estes

[rv6ejguy]

Bruce, I'll contact Dynon on Monday and see if we can get to the bottom of this for you.

[cardinalflier]

Barry from SDS contacted me last night (Sunday). They found THEIR mistake in a wiring harness. I made the correction this morning and I now have a tach reading from the CPI-2. Flew for .5. I now have 2 hours on the system and all is good. Now on to more tuning and testing. Bruce Estes

[rv6ejguy]

Glad this got figured out and Barry is very embarrassed at the wiring error.

A revised manual has been uploaded to the CPI-2 and Aircraft Documentation area pages today. All users, please reference this one as it corrects and clarifies some of the wiring issues on the tach and kill switch wires, specifically pages 4-6. It also has more guidance on hooking up to Garmin, Dynon and AFS glass.

[rv6ejguy]

Revised manual is now posted: http://sdsefi.com/cpi-2manjune2519.pdf

This supersedes previous versions.

[rv6ejguy]

We finally received our 2nd batch shipment of CPI-2 boards from the loading/ soldering facility today so can start filling new orders late next week.

There is a small order backlog still waiting to fill and we'll handle those first.

If you're ready to pull the trigger on an EI, check out the CPI-2. Lots of advanced features, competitive pricing, no starting kickbacks, no lost timing events, no blast tubes, no inspections, no bearing or gears to fail.

It's fully user programmable so you can optimize the timing curve for YOUR engine, suiting the fuel you use, compression ratio, forced induction and whether you fly LOP.

We have both single and dual, 4 and 6 cylinder systems available.

[rv6ejguy]

You can check out the CPI-2 at Aero Sport Power and Barrett Precision Engines

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48372466626_c4c1bb8b34_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gGvx4h)

[rv6ejguy]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48376516696_16efd633b0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gGSi15)

Here is the optional battery tray kit we offer for the CPI-2. Mount the tray with the provided hardware in a convenient corner.

All the wiring is done for you, just plug the connectors into the ECU and Powersonic PS-1227 battery. Fusing is provided right on the tray.

The ECU monitors and charges the battery as needed.

[rv6ejguy]

Lots of CPI-2 interest at Osh. We're cranking out several CPI-2 kits per week here now, mostly for 6 cylinder engines. Thanks to the folks who placed orders after Osh.

We should be caught up and back at 2 day order to ship times by Aug. 19.

[Bcone1381]

If I installed this on my airplane, when I press the LOP button, what will I see?

Lets say I have a 180 hp Lycoming IO-360 with Bendix RSA fuel injection. The injectors are balanced, and I install your CPI-2 product to replace both Mags. Cruising at 8000' at 60% power and have the timing set lets say to 25 BTDC. What about 10,000' or 12,000'?

I'm guessing EGT decline, CHT's rise.....will I see airspeed rise too? How much?

[rv6ejguy]

The LOP button is designed to be used when you lean the engine to LOP. This advances the timing (usually 3-5 degrees) and picks up some of the power lost when running lean of peak due to the slower burn rate of the mixture.

Usually see 3-6 knots come back over fixed mag timing, depending on airframe and how far LOP you are.

The amount of advance for LOP is user programmable as are the basic RPM and MAP timing curves. In fact, almost every parameter right down to cranking retard and coil charge times can be changed.

This is the "Last Word" in aircraft EI systems where you want full control of your timing and not a canned curve like most other EIs offer.

[Toobuilder]

If I installed this on my airplane, when I press the LOP button, what will I see?

Lets say I have a 180 hp Lycoming IO-360 with Bendix RSA fuel injection. The injectors are balanced, and I install your CPI-2 product to replace both Mags. Cruising at 8000' at 60% power and have the timing set lets say to 25 BTDC. What about 10,000' or 12,000'?

I'm guessing EGT decline, CHT's rise.....will I see airspeed rise too? How much?

If you are in fact cruising at 25 degrees advance as your baseline, then activating the LOP feature will show you 5+ knots increase in speed, a 5-10 increase in CHT (which will help, because you will be too cold), and a reduction in EGT.

This assumes that you took the 10 minutes to find "your" optimized LOP value for that condition (EGT/altitude).

[rv6ejguy]

We'll have finally cleared our order backlog for CPI-2s by tomorrow so things should return to "normal" around here. This means more time to devote to the EM-6 project which has been coming along steadily but not as fast as we hoped, due to time spent on building and shipping systems. This also means I'll finally have time to get back to other development projects which have been delayed this summer.

We can deliver CPIs in one day, CPI-2s in 2 days and EM-5s in about 3-4 days with our usual backlogs. 6 cylinder versions are available now if you're tired of waiting for other brands to be supplied.

Thanks to those who've ordered CPI-2s to upgrade from CPIs- we didn't expect much of that.

[rv6ejguy]

I posted a new video on temperature testing of the CPI-2 controller today:

https://youtu.be/1hzjaygmFJc

[rv6ejguy]

We have some new parts now to be able to remove the much hated Dual Mag setups and replace with SDS EI units.

The new parts allow mounting of one of our 4 or 6 cylinder coil packs where the mag unit used to be. The 2nd coil pack could be firewall or engine mount tube mounted. This would be applicable to SDS CPI, CPI-2 or EM-5 systems.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48585129116_c8b55fa403_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2h2iucW)

4 cylinder

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48585170421_28cdf0f993_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2h2iGu6)

6 cylinder

[rmartingt]

Do you make those littlemagneto clamp blocks too? I think I'm going going to need a couple...

[rv6ejguy]

We have 2 different clamp styles depending on stud length and thickness of cover plate flange. These are 7075-T6 and designed to be used with no gasket- RTV only.

[rv6ejguy]

I posted a couple photos of Mike Kellems' CPI-2 install on his RV-3B. He's been running CPIs for a while now and decided he wanted the newer system on there. Not much space on these aircraft but he's getting it done.

Photos are down near the bottom of the page: http://www.sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm

Good stuff Mike and thanks for the photos as always.

[rv6ejguy]

Thanks Mike. Flickr isn't the easiest thing to figure out and you'll have to trim the link afterwards.

Click your photo on Flickr
Click curved arrow bottom right
Upper right, choose BBcode
Right click the link to copy code
Click on VAF insert photo icon
Backspace the HTTP to get rid of it
Right click in the empty box to paste your link
Delete [IMG] on both ends of the code
Delete everything behind [/URL]
Delete the photo file name just in front of [/URL]
Check if it appears right in the VAF post by clicking preview before posting

BTW, limit max width to 800 pixels, crop that in a photo editor.

Clear as mud, right?

[TnMike]

Hi Ross,
I couldn't figure out flickr so I went searching and found smugmug. we'll see how this goes.
I highly recommend both CPI and CPI2 to anyone looking for an electronic ignition.
I have about 5hrs on my new CPI2 and am very happy so far with the performance.
I had used the regular CPI for awhile and switched over for the panel space saved.
It incorporates all of the previous features into one small instrument. Auto backup battery switching is reassuring. Preflight checks are a breeze as well.
I am especially pleased with the fit in my RV3B panel. Sure looks good I think.
Anyone with a single place or centerline 2 place A/C will like the size and ease of inflight use.
I would be happy to field questions regarding installation and operation of this system.
Thanks to you&Barry for a great ignition system and all of your excellent customer service!
Here are a couple more photos ?. Mike

https://photos.smugmug.com/CPI-2/i-CPBJ8m5/0/a01512f2/S/Photo%20w%20VAF-S.jpg (https://mikekellems.smugmug.com/CPI-2/i-CPBJ8m5/A)
https://photos.smugmug.com/CPI-2/i-Q25KMD6/0/0c67d13d/S/CPI%202%20photo-S.jpg (https://mikekellems.smugmug.com/CPI-2/i-Q25KMD6/A)
https://photos.smugmug.com/CPI-2/i-9SxBKFj/0/520b88c5/S/Panel%20on-S.jpg (https://mikekellems.smugmug.com/CPI-2/i-9SxBKFj/A)

[vlittle]

The LOP button is designed to be used when you lean the engine to LOP. This advances the timing (usually 3-5 degrees) and picks up some of the power lost when running lean of peak due to the slower burn rate of the mixture.

Usually see 3-6 knots come back over fixed mag timing, depending on airframe and how far LOP you are.

The amount of advance for LOP is user programmable as are the basic RPM and MAP timing curves. In fact, almost every parameter right down to cranking retard and coil charge times can be changed.

This is the "Last Word" in aircraft EI systems where you want full control of your timing and not a canned curve like most other EIs offer.

I'm not from Missouri (actually from Victoria), but all of these claims about ignition timing made me skeptical. I have an IO540 9.2:1 running one magneto and an Electroair electronic ignition.

I have a switch that cuts off the MAP sensor so I can have baseline timing or advanced timing. That also provided me a convenient spot to intercept the advance signal and massage it with an arduino controller.

So I wrote a sketch that allowed me to add or subtract ignition timing in flight and test some of the claims.

The first test was to try changing the timing with a rich 'best power' mixture at 8500 PA. Stock timing from the Electroair was 33 degrees. I tried between 27 and 38 degrees with no measureable change in airspeed of 201 knots.

The second test was to go LOP around 180 knots and find the best timing. Baseline was 177 knots at 33 degrees and 180 knots at 38 degrees. Yeah!

So, based on this rather elementary test, it looks like the 'canned' curve is a bit too conservative LOP, thus proving Ross's assertion. But I also had to watch CHTs in the climb, so maybe it was too agressive ROP. I can always turn off the advance with the switch, though.

So maybe I can change the shape of my advance curve with some simple programming... less advance when ROP and more advance when LOP. I can figure this out from the Dynon serial data stream.

Vern

[rv6ejguy]

Your test results mirror typical experience. We haven't found much difference ROP where power seems to be pretty insensitive to timing (though CHTs usually aren't).

LOP, depending on how much and MAP, typical RVs see 3-5 more knots running 32 to 35 degrees total on PV engines. Really high and LOP, some customers claim around 37ish gives best speed.

If you have a long leg, smooth air and some patience to let things stabilize, you can easily see what timing gives best TAS with the CPI/ CPI-2 under various MAP and mixture settings.

I'd be interested in people's feedback from testing.

[M McGraw]

I have been testing my angle valve engine timing as a function of mixture, RPM, and MAP for about two years. I am very close to what I consider my best curves. I say curves because the most fundamental thing I have learned is that you need a minimum of two curves, one for ROP and another for LOP. My ROP curve covers everything from starting to climb and high power cruise. My LOP curve covers only 2350 to 2700RPM and below 25MAP. Mostly I use it between 18 and 22MAP because of my typical cruise altitudes. I plan to distribute those curves to a friend with a similar engine soon. If he confirms my data we hope to distribute that data to the community.

If you use only one curve you will be too advanced for ROP or not advanced enough for LOP. Both conditions can be acceptable if you set limits on the advance curve, but it is important to understand that too much advance is merely adding heat to the combustion without increased power. A quick summary of my results would be that an angle valve engine and a parallel valve engine respond very differently to advance changes.

All my testing has been done with the SDS EM5 computer which uses the CPI/CPI-2 ignition software, but adds electronic fuel injection.

[rv6ejguy]

We welcome your input on the AV engines Marvin.

BTW, the CPI-2 manual has be updated today on the website. We also now list revisions at the bottom of the manual so you can know what was changed.

[rv6ejguy]

We've got a number of CPI-2s flying now with more coming soon. We encountered 2 installations where there seemed to be incredible amounts of electrical noise in the airplanes and this was often scrambling the data on the programmer LCD and LEDs. The engines always continued to run fine.

If anyone encounters issues with hyrogliphics or blank lines in the LCD or flashing LED indicators, drop me an email or PM and we'll get this addressed at our expense.

Despite extensive testing during development where we sat the controllers right on top of coil packs while they are firing spark plugs a foot away and wrapping the programmer cable around the spark plug wires with no issues, these 2 installations appear to have more noise present than this "worst case" testing scenario. Both of these problem cases have been rectified now with a programmer mod.

[rv6ejguy]

In case this was missed on our website I thought I'd post it here:

"We've eliminated the need to set Magnet Position with a timing light on Lycoming engines. For engine using the dual pickup, set A ECU Magnet Position to 88 and B to 97. For single pickup installations, set it to 92."

A few new photos of a dual RV-8 install near the bottom of the CPI-2 page uploaded today.

[rv6ejguy]

Kevin Taylor was kind enough to send us a number of photos of his dual CPI-2 install on his RV-8.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49139040201_8856c83bc2_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hSfqF4)

This is running LOP. 188 KTAS. Not too shabby on an AV 360.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49138562853_e058fec311_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hScYLV)

Kevin also has the new 2 blade Hartzell composite prop which he attributes a number more knots to. He says he's able to hit over 190 KTAS at altitude ROP.

[rv6ejguy]

We've had a flurry of CPI-2 orders in December. Thank you to every one who has placed an order. Working to get most of these shipped before the end of the year but some of our suppliers are slow in delivering certain parts at this time, mostly due to shipping delays.

Building up several programmers now as time permits. While the basic boards are machine loaded and soldered, there is still quite a bit of hand assembly required with the LEDs, LCDs and keypads into the chassis:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49256095682_af6ef9434c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2i3Anc1)

[Chkaharyer99]

I had a very successful test flight today after the installation of my SDS CPI-2, dual channel controller and optional backup battery.

As expected the system works as advertised and I am happy to remove my two slick mags which were almost due for a rebuild.

Big thanks to Ross and Barry at SDS for being available to answer my many questions along the way. The customer service I've received from SDS has been exceptional.

I also want to shout out to Bruce Estes who installed a dual SDS CPI-2 in his RV-6. Bruce gave me lots of guidance along the way. It was also great hearing about his experiences with the system.

Lastly, a big thank you to Lee Ulrich who has an SDS EFI in his RV-7. Lee finished the install, did some fabricating and helped with the timing.

[Mike S]

I had a very successful test flight today after the installation of my SDS CPI-2 -----

Charlie, congrats on getting the new system up and running.

Now fly on over for a visit.

[rv6ejguy]

Congrats Charlie and thanks to Lee (of Reno fame) and Bruce for helping out. You guys were all a pleasure to work with and were patient when we had to deliver fixes for your issues.

[akschu]

Ross,

Are we going to see a new "Design1" style head for the CPI2? The current one won't fit in my panel, but the short/wide one could be made to fit.

Thanks,
schu

[David Carter]

I'd love to have this for my new panel.

Ross,

Are we going to see a new "Design1" style head for the CPI2? The current one won't fit in my panel, but the short/wide one could be made to fit.

Thanks,
schu

[F1 Rocket]

Me 3 on a Design 1 type controller for the CPI2. But I?ve already asked Ross and been told it?s not likely to happen soon. So I?ll be fitting the current design in my Rocket.

[akschu]

If not a design1, at least a remote LOP switch so I can hide it.

[David Carter]

If not a design1, at least a remote LOP switch so I can hide it.

I don't view that as an acceptable alternative. There are other important data points on that display, such as the primary & backup battery warnings.

[rv6ejguy]

The CPI-2 programmer has a LOP switch on the programmer keypad.

Some folks who want the Design1 programmer to fit their panel space have ordered a parred down EM-5 to do ignition only. This is slightly less expensive than the CPI-2 but you don't have the automatic battery switch over capability.

Unfortunately, we are so busy these days we won't have time until 2021 to look at interfacing the Design1 PGU with the CPI-2. Our priority is to finish the design and testing of the EM-6 ECU first as that is already almost 2 years behind schedule.

CPI-2s are sold out at this time, more PCBs are being produced now. Should have those in hand just before the end of this month.

[akschu]

Ross,

In comparing the CPI-2 to the other solutions, the thing that keeps coming up is the battery switch and OV protection.

I don't plan on using a backup battery because I have a secondary alternator in my design, which begs the question, how does the CPI2 deal with an OV condition when the battery is not used? Does it shut down until the voltage levels return to normal? Or does it blow it's internal fuse? What do the CPI1 and EM5 boxes do in those conditions?

Both of my alternators have OV protection, but if I reset a breaker in flight and it happens again for 100ms, I don't want it to take out my engine.

[rv6ejguy]

The CPI-2 will typically switch over to the backup battery if the primary goes OV. It will switch back if the primary voltage returns to normal.

If you don't plan a backup battery with the CPI-2, I'd say there are few advantages to using it over the CPI if you already have OV protection unless panel space is at a premium.

On the CPI and EM-5, there is no OV protection built in so you should have external OV protection.

With almost everyone fitting glass panels these days, you should have external OV protection also fitted to protect those electronics as well.

[akschu]

I appreciate the response, but it doesn't really answer my question. If I apply 40v to a CPI2 that doesn't have an external battery, what does it do? Fry? Switch off? Blow a fuse?

I do have OV protection on both alternators, but still want to know what it does.

[sjarrell]

I appreciate the response, but it doesn't really answer my question. If I apply 40v to a CPI2 that doesn't have an external battery, what does it do? Fry? Switch off? Blow a fuse?

I do have OV protection on both alternators, but still want to know what it does.
From the SDS CPi-2 manual:

"The CPi2 has a built in crowbar and if Mainbus voltage goes above approximately 24 volts for several milliseconds, the crowbar will short circuit and blow the 2 amp fuse on the side of the ecu disconnecting the CPi2 from your Mainbus power. Trip time varies for the crowbar depending on how high the mainbus voltage goes. Higher voltage equals quicker trip time. The crowbar has filtering to prevent triggering from short voltage spikes."

[rv6ejguy]

I appreciate the response, but it doesn't really answer my question. If I apply 40v to a CPI2 that doesn't have an external battery, what does it do? Fry? Switch off? Blow a fuse?

I do have OV protection on both alternators, but still want to know what it does.

The internal crowbar protects the ECU from primary bus OV. The CPI-2 is designed to use a backup battery for redundancy since it's an electrically dependent ignition system. Crowbar trips, saves ECU which then switches over to backup power and keeps the engine running.

As I said before, if you don't run a backup battery with the CPI-2, there are not many good reasons to choose it over a CPI.

[sjarrell]

Ross,

In comparing the CPI-2 to the other solutions, the thing that keeps coming up is the battery switch and OV protection.

I don't plan on using a backup battery because I have a secondary alternator in my design, which begs the question, how does the CPI2 deal with an OV condition when the battery is not used? Does it shut down until the voltage levels return to normal? Or does it blow it's internal fuse? What do the CPI1 and EM5 boxes do in those conditions?

Both of my alternators have OV protection, but if I reset a breaker in flight and it happens again for 100ms, I don't want it to take out my engine.

I have a secondary alternator as well, but I'm still using the backup battery recommended by SDS (https://smile.amazon.com/Power-Sonic-PS-1227-Sealed-Lead-Battery/dp/B00FA5ZC5S) with my CPi-2 system. It weighs less than 3lbs, the CPi-2 unit takes care of the charging and switchover, and the mounting bracket and wiring provided by SDS makes installation simple.

I like the peace of mind knowing that if everything else goes wrong my ignition system can stand on its own at least long enough to get me on the ground with the fan still running. For me it's very cheap insurance.

[akschu]

The internal crowbar protects the ECU from primary bus OV. The CPI-2 is designed to use a backup battery for redundancy since it's an electrically dependent ignition system. Crowbar trips, saves ECU which then switches over to backup power and keeps the engine running.

As I said before, if you don't run a backup battery with the CPI-2, there are not many good reasons to choose it over a CPI.

Well, one reason is for starting with one ignition and upgrading to two without more holes in the panel, the display looks far nicer, and the remote mount head fits in my panel much better, but I'm still not sure what it would do when OV.

Your message says that the crowbar trips, then switches over to backup power, which would be missing, which leads me to believe it would simply power down, but the manual that sjarrell posted suggests it will blow the 2 amp fuse.

Perhaps I should be even more specific in my question.

What exactly happens when a CPI2 without a battery sees and OV? Does it power down? Power down and blow a fuse? Or something else?

As for the additional weight, I'm building as light as I reasonably can, I've already taken on the weight for backup alt to power my EFIS and boost pump, and EI, I don't want more redundant weight.

[rv6ejguy]

Well, one reason is for starting with one ignition and upgrading to two without more holes in the panel, the display looks far nicer, and the remote mount head fits in my panel much better, but I'm still not sure what it would do when OV.

Your message says that the crowbar trips, then switches over to backup power, which would be missing, which leads me to believe it would simply power down, but the manual that sjarrell posted suggests it will blow the 2 amp fuse.

Perhaps I should be even more specific in my question.

What exactly happens when a CPI2 without a battery sees and OV? Does it power down? Power down and blow a fuse? Or something else?

As for the additional weight, I'm building as light as I reasonably can, I've already taken on the weight for backup alt to power my EFIS and boost pump, and EI, I don't want more redundant weight.

With no backup battery, the crowbar will pop the 2 amp fuse and you are without ignition.

I would wire and use the CPI-2 as it's designed. If you run a mag on one side, you don't need a backup battery. The crowbar will prevent OV damage to the board, fly back on the mag and you can fix your alternator/ regulator issue on the ground.

With a dual CPI-2, I wouldn't be flying without an isolated backup power source as if that fails, you're a glider.

If you have a glass panel, I'd advise a crowbar setup on the alternator and of course backup power isolated from the main battery and alternator.

[akschu]

With no backup battery, the crowbar will pop the 2 amp fuse and you are without ignition.

I would wire and use the CPI-2 as it's designed. If you run a mag on one side, you don't need a backup battery. The crowbar will prevent OV damage to the board, fly back on the mag and you can fix your alternator/ regulator issue on the ground.

With a dual CPI-2, I wouldn't be flying without an isolated backup power source as if that fails, you're a glider.

If you have a glass panel, I'd advise a crowbar setup on the alternator and of course backup power isolated from the main battery and alternator.

Thanks for answering.

I do have a glass panel, and I have an external crowbar setup on my BandC 8 amp alternator, as well as internal crowbar on my plane power alternator.

The rub is that not all of these electronics conform to a standard, so the question is which OV crowbar circuit is faster, or rather trips at a lower voltage.

It looks like the CPI-2 doesn't protect itself until 24 volts, so as long as my plane power alternator trips before then, I shouldn't have any issues.

Can you tell me what voltage a CPI-1 will tolerate before it fries? Also 24 volts?

[akschu]

Another reason to use CPI2:

In another thread, Ross writes

We get the question about using the old mag switches for the CPI fairly often. Since they ground to disable, that's opposite to what is needed here. It's easier to replace with toggles although you may have to make a nice cover plate to hide the big hole.

While with the cpi-2, in the manual you get a comment about yellow and grey wires, that when grounded, cause the coil to drop out.

So, if you want to you a traditional aircraft mag switch, the CPI-2 is the better solution.

All that said, couldn't I just get a relay and wire it to the cpi1 to provide power in a normally closed way, then with the mag check, open the relay, which drops the cpi1? On one hand I hate having a relay between the CPI and battery, on the other hand, it shouldn't fail if it's wired normally closed and only opened to do a mag check.

[rv6ejguy]

Thanks for answering.

I do have a glass panel, and I have an external crowbar setup on my BandC 8 amp alternator, as well as internal crowbar on my plane power alternator.

The rub is that not all of these electronics conform to a standard, so the question is which OV crowbar circuit is faster, or rather trips at a lower voltage.

It looks like the CPI-2 doesn't protect itself until 24 volts, so as long as my plane power alternator trips before then, I shouldn't have any issues.

Can you tell me what voltage a CPI-1 will tolerate before it fries? Also 24 volts?

The CPI-2 will switch over to the backup battery at 16.5V so it's isolated when that happens and that's super quick, like micro seconds. The crowbar acts in milliseconds to save the PCB and that time is dependent on the degree of OV, in testing, typically 24-30V.

I don't have any knowledge of other brands of devices which is the main reason we did our own protection on the CPI-2. It protects itself and keeps the engine running. That's our main concern.

If you have OV protection on the alternator, OV protection on the CPI-2 main power input and the auto switchover to an isolated backup battery, you have 3 layers of protection.

[akschu]

The plane power people say their OV protection kicks in at 17.4v.

Given that the CPI-2 does it at 24-30V, the alternator should kick it self out and the buss return back to battery voltage long before the CPI-2 gets forceful with it's fuse.

That's when I notice that my alternator isn't working because buss voltage drops below 13V, then flip my alternate alternator switch and press on.

I think I'll do CPI-2 without battery backup as it seems the OV will trip in the order I want it to, and I have a second source of power (battery) and a 3rd source of power (aux alt). I don't think I need to give up the weight for a 4th source of power.

Can you comment on cpi1 max voltage? Or using a relay with a CPI to retain the mag switch?

Thanks for being available to answer questions, I feel like I fully understand what I'm getting into now, and can make the best decision.

schu

[F1 Rocket]

Schu,
I recently went through the whole decision process of dual EI, single EI/mag, CPI/CPI2, EM5. Part of this process was getting comfortable with the concept of dual EI and the resulting electrically dependent engine. Once I decided I could be comfortable with the dual set up I started researching all of the available options. The more I researched the more I became comfortable with letting the CPI2 do it?s thing if something happened to the main power feed. What Ross and Barry have done is create a system that can be easily integrated into an airplane with a basic electrical system, take care of itself, and keep the big cooling fan spinning with as little pilot action as possible. A backup battery is an integral part of the system and should not be left out. The safest route is to use a product as it was designed to be used. If you are not comfortable with this then IMO you should take Ross?s advise and not use the CPI2. A pair of CPI?s or an ignition only EM5 will let you do your own thing with regards to redundancy. I considered this, I even had Ross send me the hardware for each of them so I could do the touchy-feely thing and figure out how to best integrate each into my airplane. In the end the CPI2 won out.

[rv6ejguy]

The plane power people say their OV protection kicks in at 17.4v.

Given that the CPI-2 does it at 24-30V, the alternator should kick it self out and the buss return back to battery voltage long before the CPI-2 gets forceful with it's fuse.

That's when I notice that my alternator isn't working because buss voltage drops below 13V, then flip my alternate alternator switch and press on.

I think I'll do CPI-2 without battery backup as it seems the OV will trip in the order I want it to, and I have a second source of power (battery) and a 3rd source of power (aux alt). I don't think I need to give up the weight for a 4th source of power.

Can you comment on cpi1 max voltage? Or using a relay with a CPI to retain the mag switch?

Thanks for being available to answer questions, I feel like I fully understand what I'm getting into now, and can make the best decision.

schu

The CPI has been tested to 20V. It may go higher but I suspect the 5V regulator inside would get pretty hot eventually.

We have a schematic to use the standard mag switch to power the CPI on/off.

I recommend you have that alternator crowbar if you have critical electronics on board.

If you have a dual CPI-2, I'd recommend a backup battery as that's what the system was designed around for redundancy. There is a lot going on behind the scenes in software and hardware on the CPI-2 to have seamless switch over and isolation in case of primary OV. Best to use it as designed rather than coming up with untested alternate power solutions.

We are so busy now with orders, support and other development that we are short on time to investigate alternate power possibilities. We like to stick with what we have tested and what has proven reliable in the field on hundreds of flying aircraft. Sorry I've been slow to respond over the last couple days, 50+ emails and 40+ phone calls per day has kinda swamped us and created a big order backlog which we need to start wading through to get back on track.

Thanks to everyone for their interest and support of SDS products!

[sjarrell]

Schu,
..... What Ross and Barry have done is create a system that can be easily integrated into an airplane with a basic electrical system, take care of itself, and keep the big cooling fan spinning with as little pilot action as possible. A backup battery is an integral part of the system and should not be left out. The safest route is to use a product as it was designed to be used. If you are not comfortable with this then IMO you should take Ross?s advise and not use the CPI2.....

Well put. I agree completely.