a couple printed ideas

[Steve Melton]

a guy should be able to represent himself, right? I just need to get into the process to see how it works.

you know, this design is so simple and relatively quick, people can design and make their own and probably are already printing these somewhere. my artwork is freely published on this site and once it is made public it cannot be patented and free to use.

[Steve Melton]

I am especially proud of the ultra smooth shine on those fuel drain fairings!

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3948.JPG

[Steve Melton]

weird things are happening. I walked out to my car this morning and a mother deer was standing beside my mailbox. I stopped about 10 ft away and held out my empty hand and she walked over to me and we looked at each other for about a minute within a one foot range. she was quite beautiful with big eyes and her nose was wet. she had no fear.

[Vlad]

weird things are happening. I walked out to my car this morning and a mother deer was standing beside my mailbox. I stopped about 10 ft away and held out my empty hand and she walked over to me and we looked at each other for about a minute within a one foot range. she was quite beautiful with big eyes and her nose was wet. she had no fear.

Beautiful! I often get visitors at my airport. Couple days ago an antelope was plucking the weeds by my window. She brought the whole herd next morning woke me up :D

[Snowflake]

she had no fear.
That's probably because she knew she could cause you some serious bodily harm if needed. Deer, as with many wild animals, can be dangerous. Best to let them keep their distance.

[Snowflake]

a guy should be able to represent himself, right? I just need to get into the process to see how it works.
Absolutely someone should be able to represent themselves. Most people learn how it works through law school, or through getting taken to court and thinking they can represent themselves without any experience and losing.

you know, this design is so simple and relatively quick, people can design and make their own and probably are already printing these somewhere.
Everything looks obvious once you're looking at a completed design.

my artwork is freely published on this site and once it is made public it cannot be patented and free to use.
AirGizmo's artwotk is published as well, but it's also patented. You will have to show that your artwork predates theirs, and/or doesn't infringe on theirs. It doesn't matter that you developed it without looking at theirs. You almost certainly knew that AirGizmo Panel Docks(tm) were a thing before you started.

[lr172]

I need the case to be very clear in the trial. I looked at the claims made by the Airgizmo patent and compared it to my GPS Dock. I stopped part way thru claim 1. Do you think I have a chance?

all of the RVPlasticParts GPS Docks use this approach except for the 760 GPS Dock that has a slide lever release to the Garmin mount.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/patent_review_1.png

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/patent_review_2.png

As you can see in the patent description, there is a very unique language used with Patent applications. It is a combination of Engineering speak, mixed with legalese. There is a reason that patent law is unique and only practiced by those who specialize in it. It takes years of research to understand the scope of a patent description, along with how the courts view the extent and scope of that description, relative to infringement. A few strategically placed words can make the difference between a defensible and indefensible patent.

I can't tell if you stand a chance, but this outsiders view is on losing. The patent description seems to match your design completely. The only upside is that you have only sold a few and therefore no significant claim of damages. The downside is that you could easily spend more on courts costs than you could make in a lifetime of selling these parts. I feel that you have a very slim chance of effectively defending yourself.

I again recommend that you drop the gps docking line of parts. Many here like your stuff and it would be a shame for you to have to stop due to this issue. I strongly suggest that you spend time researching the likelihood of being assessed court cost and plantiff's legal fees, if you lose. Not being an attorney means that you likely don't understand the strategies to avoid this from happening. This could bankrupt you nad you family if it happened.

Lary

[Steve Melton]

what about this one? is it different enough?: no flex, uses the GARMIN mount, different and new features.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/Melton_Insurance_2020_p3.JPG

[RV7A Flyer]

what about this one? is it different enough?: no flex, uses the GARMIN mount, different and new features.


There's one sure way to find out! Go for it...print 'em up and sell away, and if they don't sue you, you'll know it's okay!

[cderk]

Again - i'm not a lawyer, I dont play one on TV, so take this for what its worth.

I feel like this is a really weak patent. I would have thought that a car stereo with a removable control panel on the front (theft deterrent) would be prior art that would invalidate this patent. to me, it includes everything in claim one of the air gizmo dock.

[scsmith]

Again - i'm not a lawyer, I dont play one on TV, so take this for what its worth.

I feel like this is a really weak patent. I would have thought that a car stereo with a removable control panel on the front (theft deterrent) would be prior art that would invalidate this patent. to me, it includes everything in claim one of the air gizmo dock.

It does seem like a weak patent, both because of prior art and because it is too broad. It reminds me of one time Sikorsky patented an airfoil for a helicopter rotor. The patent basically read as "any airfoil that is round on the front and sharp on the back with this performance or better".
Even if they don't actually make a product that yours competes with, I think it can still be an infringement though.

But all the caveats from this post apply to me too! Go at least get a consultation from a patent attorney.

[dpansier]

[QUOTE I feel like this is a really weak patent. I would have thought that a car stereo with a removable control panel on the front (theft deterrent) would be prior art that would invalidate this patent. to me, it includes everything in claim one of the air gizmo dock. [/QUOTE]


The Patent Citations list the art that was presented to the examiner during the process, the detachable control unit (Alpine car stereo) was listed and known so that argument may not fly.

[Pdtofly]

From their own website, they are working on the 760 mount, and don’t already have one, and not expecting one until the fall. Is this not the summer, which comes before the fall.

658

So, would this mean, they are stealing your idea, and not the other way around.

Their mount is for any portable electronic instrument. It sounds like they have stolen theirs from RAM Mount, or smartPanel Mounts from Guardian Avionics.

Also, if you decide not to pursue this, give away your file as free domain, and let any, and everyone who wants one to make there own, and not buy one from them.

Brian

[Snowflake]

Also, if you decide not to pursue this, give away your file as free domain, and let any, and everyone who wants one to make there own, and not buy one from them.

You can be sued for doing this as well... The design still violates the patent and by giving it away causes monetary damage to AirGizmo's by robbing them of sales.

[lr172]

It is possible that it is a weak patent (many are and consistently fail in enforcement actions) and it's also possible that there have been cases that defendants have won in infringement cases, setting a precedent. It is also possible that the patent is very strong, eventhough it sounds weak to those who are not patent attorneys or judges. I am not a patent attorney and can provide no guidance.

My point is that the only opinion that matters is the one from an experienced patent attorney or layman well experienced with patent enforcement activity, with access to case history. I will re-iterate that you need to understand the true financial risk if you choose to proceed down this path and lose. Don't think you will get that from anyone other than a patent attorney.

YOur financial risk could be me MUCH greater than just your travel expenses to Texas! And then again they may not be. Only a patent attorney can provide that guidance.

Larry

[Steve Melton]

maybe I can learn from this lawsuit case that was forwarded to me and is freely available on the internet. it seems Guardian is still operating. perhaps they adjusted their product so as not to conflict. perhaps they changed a recessed cavity or maybe made a hole into a slot or an ellipse or something. then there would be no conflict.

https://litigationtools.maxval-ip.com/UnifiedPatentViewDocument/home/index?caseid=113652

[jjaromin]

Anytime Texas and Patent are used in the same sentence it reminds me of X-Plane creator Austin Meyers trouble with them. He did a decent documentary on it and if you have a prime subscription you can view it. While I don't think Airgizmos are patent trolls, some locations appear to be very patent owner friendly.

The Patent Scam
https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B0736G66P8/ref=atv_dp_share_cu_r

[Steve Melton]

Anytime Texas and Patent are used in the same sentence it reminds me of X-Plane creator Austin Meyers trouble with them. He did a decent documentary on it and if you have a prime subscription you can view it. While I don't think Airgizmos are patent trolls, some locations appear to be very patent owner friendly.

The Patent Scam
https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B0736G66P8/ref=atv_dp_share_cu_r

Wow! thx for posting this video. this is a BIG problem. I never knew. credit to Austin Meyer for going after this and producing this video! we need to get rid of Democratic Senator Harry Reid for being the main opposition for correcting this situation after Congress voted to fix it. this affects all of us by driving up the cost of goods. seems as if Texas is a haven for patent trolls. I think I'll send a letter to my Congressman. you know, if this kind of stuff continues, the next logical step for them is to start filing claims against individuals for doing anything (like swinging on a swing, see the video) and forcing them to go to Texas for a trial or pay them off. I think this is a worthy fight but it needs to take place in Congress as outlined by Austin. I'm going to send him an email with encouragement and ask how I can help. for people to remain Free they still need to fight.

[leok]

I have had a great deal of experience working with and around patents although not an attorney. So take it for what it's worth;

First, patents are filed for defensive as well as protection purposes. A defensive patent, even the very act of filing creates a legal trail of prior art. What that means is that if you can prove prior art, the holder of the patent cannot claim damages and/or block you from producing and selling the device.

Second, by legal definition only the claims matter to infringement. The first claim is always the most broad. If you do not violate the first claim, you do not violate any of the sub-claims by definition. They are there specifically to back up the first claim with a narrower scope if the first claim etc. is found to be invalid.

So my advice after reading the first claim is to design around the specific features called out. For example; The claim calls for two levels of recess. Make a design with one level using stand offs to control the depth the device. Mission accomplished. There must be a thousand ways to design around the "features" listed in the first claim. Then smile and point out to them how you do not have the specific patented features in your design.

This approach is MUCH easier than litigation, which in the best of circumstances is a loose loose **** shoot.

Good luck

[Steve Melton]

I have had a great deal of experience working with and around patents although not an attorney. So take it for what it's worth;

First, patents are filed for defensive as well as protection purposes. A defensive patent, even the very act of filing creates a legal trail of prior art. What that means is that if you can prove prior art, the holder of the patent cannot claim damages and/or block you from producing and selling the device.

Second, by legal definition only the claims matter to infringement. The first claim is always the most broad. If you do not violate the first claim, you do not violate any of the sub-claims by definition. They are there specifically to back up the first claim with a narrower scope if the first claim etc. is found to be invalid.

So my advice after reading the first claim is to design around the specific features called out. For example; The claim calls for two levels of recess. Make a design with one level using stand offs to control the depth the device. Mission accomplished. There must be a thousand ways to design around the "features" listed in the first claim. Then smile and point out to them how you do not have the specific patented features in your design.

This approach is MUCH easier than litigation, which in the best of circumstances is a loose loose **** shoot.

Good luck

yes, that is why I sent them photos of the RVPlasticPart Docks so they can tell my where they believe I infringed, then design around it. 3D printing makes they easy. no molds to deal with. if I cannot find an alternate approach to what they claim they I will delete the product. simple as that. what they initially sent me was just a copy of the patent and photos of almost every product that I made. that includes items like the GPS antenna bracket in the wingtip and universal custom phone holder.... it is their shotgun approach.

Austin Meyer also has a video on youtube if you don't have Amazon Prime: https://youtu.be/2AB633rlUkg

I am one guy working in a basement with a couple of 3D printers making custom parts and my inventory fits in a 3 small bins.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3945.JPG

[RV7A Flyer]

we need to get rid of Democratic Senator Harry Reid for being the main opposition for correcting this situation after Congress voted to fix it.

This is snark, right? :)

[Pdtofly]

Harry retired from the senate a few years ago. As a Nevada resident, I could not wait for that day. To bad his replacement is not any better.

[rv7charlie]

Aaaand let's see how long it takes for a *dissenting* opinion to get deleted, because anything that's *not* right wing is political, while right wing isn't, of course...

[Steve Melton]

OK, I'm deleting my political posts

[David Paule]

Steve, it might be a good idea to get a general briefing from a patent attorney, just so that you'll have a better idea of what you can do to protect yourself and what you can fight off by yourself, if necessary.

Dave

[Steve Melton]

Steve, it might be a good idea to get a general briefing from a patent attorney, just so that you'll have a better idea of what you can do to protect yourself and what you can fight off by yourself, if necessary.

Dave

Dave, I'm planning on doing that after I get a response the lawyers. Firstly, I need to understand the specific claims to understand if there is a viable alternate method. You know, a slot instead of a hole or recessed area change. I'm also OK with giving these up. I don't have much invested in them. Maybe a week or so of time for each and no tooling costs. So for funds outlay on my side there is nothing to lose. I would just be sitting around anyway and I don't have any inventory. But what if someone else designs some of these and releases them to the web for personal use around the world?

[pjc]

yes, that is why I sent them photos of the RVPlasticPart Docks so they can tell my where they believe I infringed, then design around it. 3D printing makes they easy. no molds to deal with. if I cannot find an alternate approach to what they claim they I will delete the product. simple as that. what they initially sent me was just a copy of the patent and photos of almost every product that I made. that includes items like the GPS antenna bracket in the wingtip and universal custom phone holder.... it is their shotgun approach.


I’d be very surprised if you get a response “telling you where they believe you infringed.” They’re not interested in helping you develop a non-infringing product. They are interested in stopping production of a competitive product. They will ask the court to determine whether or not your design infringes. The process and outcome may both be expensive.

Your on the right track though by seeking to avoid infringement. As stated elsewhere, it’s only the claims that matter. If your design isn’t captured by the specific claims (as understood by one of ordinary skill in the art) it doesn’t infringe. Their broadest claim (almost always the first) seems to require two recesses. If you have a design with a single recess you may (should) be ok. The plaintiff and their counsel won’t likely agree however. The question may ultimately have to be determined by a jury. (And we are back to $$$)

Disclaimer: I hold a couple of US patents, but I am not a lawyer, never mind skilled patent counsel. Seek expert advise.

Peter

[flysrv10]

Steve, I hope you have satisfactory outcome of your issue with Airgizmo. Hate to have you shut the door because of it.

I wonder if you can print a handle strong enough to climb up on the wing of RV10. I am talking about a handle installed above the rear window.

I have been looking for a Stainless Steel cabinet handle and cannot find one anywhere. Thanks.

[Steve Melton]

Steve, I hope you have satisfactory outcome of your issue with Airgizmo. Hate to have you shut the door because of it.

I wonder if you can print a handle strong enough to climb up on the wing of RV10. I am talking about a handle installed above the rear window.

I have been looking for a Stainless Steel cabinet handle and cannot find one anywhere. Thanks.

I will be fine with AirGizmo. I simply request them to provide a detailed review of my products that they believe conflict with their patent and provide details relative to their patent claims. Only the items expressly claimed in a patent can be held for review in a court. Once I receive their detailed review I will be able to determine if my products can be altered as to not conflict. If I cannot, then I will simply delete the product as to have no conflict. I will abide by the law. Intellectual patent rights are important. I did not understand that something this simple could be patented.... something with two recessed areas, something that flexes, or something with a hole in the back. As I understand, 75% of patents that are brought for review for cross examination are overturned and I think that would be the case here but that takes a lot of time and effort. Since I only have a week or so into each one of these dock designs and no tooling or inventory and that it is a limited market, I don't believe it would be worth it for me to pursue. Experimental aviation is a place for learning... all kinds of stuff, and it is an exciting environment. Who would have thought a retired guy printing parts in his basement could attract this kind of attention. 3D printing is truly disruptive.

Humm, a handle for climb-up for an RV-10. certainly it could be done but since it needs to be attached with preferably a single bolt a each end the material would need to be strong so that would dictate nylon/carbon fiber for me. nylon is sensitive to UV light so it would need to be painted or covered with something. I don't know how well paint would adhere to the material or if it could be chromed. the surface would have a rough texture so that may not be good. I'll think about it.

[rocketman1988]

Steve, I hope you have satisfactory outcome of your issue with Airgizmo. Hate to have you shut the door because of it.

I wonder if you can print a handle strong enough to climb up on the wing of RV10. I am talking about a handle installed above the rear window.

I have been looking for a Stainless Steel cabinet handle and cannot find one anywhere. Thanks.

Check this place out:

https://www.shopamerock.com/Cabinet+Hardware/Cabinet+Handle/_/N-category+Cabinet_Handle+material+Stainless_Steel

[flysrv10]

Check this place out:

https://www.shopamerock.com/Cabinet+Hardware/Cabinet+Handle/_/N-category+Cabinet_Handle+material+Stainless_Steel

Problem solved. Thanks Rocketman!

[Steve Melton]

I haven't printed one of these in awhile but they are nice. I really need to get one of these in my aircraft. Annunciation panel 16mm push button lights. The lights have protective plastic film and then one can remove the clear plastic cover to add a label inside. Comes with cutout template and with screw hole location. Screw hole location is also included on the back side of the panel mount. Compact and modular. The lights are individually removable without any other disassembly.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3976.JPG

[Steve Melton]

introducing GPS Dock 1, http://www.gpsdock1.com

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/GPSDock1_adversitement_1.png

with Open Source files and instructions to print these well.

https://www.gpsdock1.com/open-source

I expect these will be uploaded to "Thingiverse" or similar at some point by anyone to become an official "Thingi", but this site (www.gpsdock1.com) will be a controlled and updated site to ensure configuration control.

[Vlad]

Steve,
With all your calculations and testing on durability, is there a sense to print tie down stakes? Something not rebar heavy but still strong and able to withstand some hammering on. Not for driving into rocks of Utah but rather a Wyoming clay. That would be the last part into your "Total Airplane Security Bag" :D

[Steve Melton]

these rubber inserts have been on for a couple of years now. they eliminate the high frequency vibration but they take a beating. I reversed them a year ago to extend the life but now it's time for new. I serviced my WW200 prop and then balanced to .02 IPS and with the new rubber it's liquid smooth at my feet. It really is all about the foot!

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200904_150529.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200904_150648.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200904_151031.jpg

[Steve Melton]

printing prototype 1, variable angle available, 4 screws or 3M dual lock velcro, hopefully, there is enough ventilation, contact is made in three local areas on the aft side of the tablet to maximize convection heat transfer area.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap1.JPG
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap2.JPG
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap3.JPG

[David Paule]

Vlad, not 3D printed but a good material for tiedown stakes is titanium bar. I've been using a set for something like 25 years and they're holding up fine. Mine are 1/2" but if I were doing it again I'd go to 3/8" or even 5/16" diameter.

Where the 3D printing would be effective would be in the connector between the stakes and the rope.

Incidentally, the high-tech marine ropes with a fancy core like Dyneema and a polyester cover make great tiedown ropes. You can really get the weight down with them because they have such high strength, so the diameter can drop. Don't neglect having the cover, though, since the bare core material might prove too slippery to hold a knot. Dyneema is such a material.

Dave

[flysrv10]

printing prototype 1, variable angle available, 4 screws or 3M dual lock velcro, hopefully, there is enough ventilation, contact is made in three local areas on the aft side of the tablet to maximize convection heat transfer area.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap1.JPG
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap2.JPG
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap3.JPG

Any way to mount to a pedestal?

[Snowflake]

printing prototype 1, variable angle available, 4 screws or 3M dual lock velcro, hopefully, there is enough ventilation, contact is made in three local areas on the aft side of the tablet to maximize convection heat transfer area.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap1.JPG

There's only one catch with tablet holders like this... You have to take your tablet out of its case to put it in the holder... If it could hold the tablet with the case folded around behind it, it would be more functional.

[Steve Melton]

prototype 2 printed well, lower attachment changed to be a small enclosed trap to be secure, side clearance is reduced for a tighter fit. I need to bolt it to verify proper operation in the installed condition. Overall, I like it.

3 degree angle
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap4.JPG

*******

10 degree angle
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap5.JPG

[Steve Melton]

I checked this with an actual iPad mini and it fit well. the photos are with the printed iPad mini. the chamfer on the release end is the key to good operation as is leaves a gap for release lever rotation. I like it.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200907_141042.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200907_141053.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200907_141157.jpg

[Steve Melton]

prototype 3 and I believe I'm on the home stretch for this one. criteria for the ventilation was raised based on some comments and the design altered so that maximum free convection cooling is achieved. these are relatively low cost solutions and may be of benefit to some but probably a small market.

angles 0 to 15 degrees.

the angles in the photos are: 0, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/P3_cap1.JPG
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/P3_cap7.JPG
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/P3_cap2.JPG
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https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/P3_cap5.JPG
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/P3_cap6.JPG

[Steve Melton]

working this for the horizontal, in-process

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap1(1).JPG

[Steve Melton]

a horizontal mount. 0 deg and 15 deg or anything in-between. I need to verify these with a test print but if they are similar to the vertical orientation they will be very nice. Screws or 3M dual lock velcro to attach.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap2(1).JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap3(1).JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap5(1).JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap4(1).JPG

[Steve Melton]

these are for Gen 1-3. very nice. moving to Gen 4-5 next week.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/(edited)_IMG_20200913_171053.jpg

[Steve Melton]

added a .25 inch (6.35 mm) hole size for my neighbor. his leads were smaller than 7 mm. makes a very tight seal. material is nylon / carbon fiber.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4071(1).JPG

[lr172]

Steve,

Don't know what happened with the Gizmo patent issue, but fear you are drifting into the deep end of the pool again and headed for more confilct.

These ipad mounts are produced by Ram and they have a patent. In fact, they have 150 patents. The depth and breadth of patents would be a good indicator that they vigorously defend them. The following shows an ipad mount very similar to what you are showing here and it is listed as patented.

https://www.rammount.com/part/RAM-HOL-AP15U

Suggest that you do some research before you begin to market this product.

Larry

[Steve Melton]

OK, I hadn't seen that before. Appreciate your concern. GPS Dock 1 is a design studio with open source .stl files so anyone can print these.

[jliltd]

I guess I don't get it. I see dozens of different iPad docks/mount on eBay. I even have one I bought years ago that is not Gizmo (it is Vidabox).

I buy similar items made by SlipGrip for my phones and panel mount them. No problem. My aera GPS from Garmin come with a dock that panel mounts the units. Is that a conflict with the Gizmo patent?

Here is one made by SlipGrip. I don't see RAM or Gizmo going after Slip Grip.

https://www.slipgripcarmounts.com/assets/images/stockRamHolTab2.JPG

There is plenty of competition. I like Steve's products. Not just because he is a fellow VAFr but more importantly because he listens to us and provides instant result through the use of 3D printing. And his prices are right in line or less than others.

Jim

[Steve Melton]

compact design, very secure, light weight and simple. angle can be 0 thru 15 deg. I set this model so that it can be updated for any tablet dimensions or smart phone in minutes. have the part in your hand within hours. stay tuned for more. attaches with fasteners or 3M dual lock velcro. the mounted tablet should have good free convection cooling on all sides, at least it's the best I could do. the number one complaint for iPad users is that it they over heat and shut down. I'll mount the 0 degree model and do a test flight with my neighbors iPad to confirm the temps. it's really just another reason to fly..... testing.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap1(2).JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap2(2).JPG

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https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200916_184119.jpg

[Steve Melton]

Nexus 7, 0 thru 15 degree.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap1(3).JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap2(3).JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap3(3).JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4078.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4081.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4079.jpg

[Steve Melton]

looks good, very secure and light weight.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200917_132214.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200917_132307.jpg

[David Paule]

Steve, I'll be using an iPad Mini on my RV-3B when I get that far. My plan is to have a flush mount that lets me use the iPad either in vertical or horizontal format, with the ability to rotate the iPad as I wish in flight.

Right now my baseline notion is to have a narrow shelf at the bottom, one on the left side, and use industrial Velcro to hold the iPad. But I have no concept for a shade for it and ideally that would be part of the plan.

I also don't have a method lined up for adjusting the tilt, should I want to change that.

This is just FYI, really, but it might suggest some things that perhaps you could design into a future iPad mount.

Dave

[Scott Hersha]

I’m sure Steve can come up with a swivel mount adapter for an iPad. If you need shade in your RV3, I’m sure your sun exposure problem is the same as my RV4. I made a small glareshied for mine that works quite well. Maybe you could do something similar....

2592

2593

2594

Spin the pics around to get an idea (I don’t know how to prevent this). I used .032 aliminum and “massaged” the metal into shape. It provides a pretty good shade across my IP. Nice curve, looks good too! (For a green airplane - I didn’t paint it)

[David Paule]

Very simple, thanks!. How far does it extend aft of the panel?

Mine is integral and extends aft 3" from the panel. The sunshade is the gray part. The canopy is soon to be added.

https://i.imgur.com/TRXafTk.jpg

And yes, I know that I don't have a canopy frame. It'll be integral to the assembly.

Dave

[Scott Hersha]

I can measure it tomorrow, but I think it is something like 5” aft of the panel. It is attached to the welded canopy frame as shown in the pics. It looks like your canopy will extend further forward on your RV3 than it does on my RV4. The front edge of my canopy is right at the top edge of the IP, or very close to it. I’ll try to take some better pics tomorrow.

[Steve Melton]

posting another one but now I'll stop because they are all about the same. 0 thru 15 degrees in 1 deg increments. I'll try a smart phone next to see how it looks. these plastic widgets are about my speed now. fun stuff. UV resistant plastic. I'm convinced these will last much longer than your iPad.

... but I will post one for the iPad Air 2, a big screen.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap1(4).JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap2(4).JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap3(4).JPG

[Steve Melton]

a bigger screen

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/Cap1.JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/Cap2.JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/Cap3.JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/Cap4.JPG

big.... and nice and secure. this plastic part will far out live your iPad.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200920_131304.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200920_131331.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200920_131256.jpg

[Steve Melton]

a friend loaned me a broken Samsung A20 to verify. the design seems as if it will be fine. 0 thru 15 degrees. a compact design. screws or 3M dual lock velcro.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap1(5).JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap2(5).JPG

[Bill Boyd]

... great. Now can we please get on with the RV-10 flap hinge fairings?

Some of us have speed records to set. :D

[Steve Melton]

... great. Now can we please get on with the RV-10 flap hinge fairings?

Some of us have speed records to set. :D

yeah, those are tough ones. I gave it a try awhile back and then decided to make it a Winter project. need access to an aircraft and need for someone to be willing to let me take the flap bolts out. folks don't generally like to have their aircraft taken apart. so, that is the real problem.

[Steve Melton]

this was a tricky one. the phone is long and narrow and required a non centered grip. it's compact. the flex occurs in the flat plates not in the grip so to achieve the length required for long life, the upper two fasteners were eliminated.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap1(1).png

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap3(7).PNG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap2(1).PNG

[Steve Melton]

I'm getting tired of reaching around to find my seat belt straps so I'm sketching a strap holder that 3M dual lock velcro's to the aft side of the canopy roll bar (for tip-up). the arm will move out of the way for loading cargo.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap1(2).PNG

for the pilot side at a 45 degree angle, in the retracted position

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap2(2).PNG

for the copilot side

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap6(1).PNG

for the top side, a couple of options, in the retracted position, these stop at 90 degrees so not to bump the glass

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap5.PNG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap3(8).PNG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap4(1).PNG

*****

needs a test fit and an added hard stop feature for the fwd rotation at zero degrees.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4089.JPG

[Scott Hersha]

This is real world experience with one of Steve’s printed iPad mounts in my RV4. The RV4 doesn’t have a lot of room to remote mount an iPad, especially if you would like to keep it out of the sun, which will mostly wash out the display.
I built a bracket that hangs on the cross brace that sits just behind the instrument panel. I used Steve’s vertical mount, mounted sideways because the release mechanism is more convenient in my application. Pictures tell the story.

2819

2820

2821

2822

Since the bracket is fully cantilevered, I had to reinforce it in a couple areas to give it some stability, but it is stable and functional in flight. The position is ideal for viewing and the sun doesn’t wash it out, thanks partly to my added glare shield. The iPad has my POH, checklist, and several other documents that could be useable in flight. The mapping program (FlyQ) talks to my echo for traffic and weather, as does my GRT EFIS.

[Steve Melton]

I need to demonstrate the grip feature and it's strength with a test. it is virtually impossible to pull the iPad from the mount without releasing it by the latch. if you try to pull it out without releasing the latch the grip becomes tighter. it's a good thing. see the sketch why this occurs. 10g force.... not a problem.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap6(2).PNG

[sahrens]

I'm getting tired of reaching around to find my seat belt straps so I'm sketching a strap holder that 3M dual lock velcro's to the aft side of the canopy roll bar (for tip-up). the arm will move out of the way for loading cargo.



Maybe a smaller version to attach forward of the seats for head sets. Your other headset holder is for a slider. This might work for a tipup to store headsets. Just a thought.

[Steve Melton]

Maybe a smaller version to attach forward of the seats for head sets. Your other headset holder is for a slider. This might work for a tipup to store headsets. Just a thought.

it's a good thought. maybe we can do that.

[Steve Melton]

OK. I found that the seat belt Y is too short to have one hung in the center but I did find that both supported on the side is very good. I think I'm going to like this. Adjustment still to be made to allow the arm to swing past 90 degree in the retracted position to allow for complete clearance for baggage but not to touch the glass by 1 inch clearance. UV resistant plastic. No more sitting on my belts or trying to find them anymore! I have not decided on the colors... all black, all white, all dark grey.... not red? perhaps a flat dark earth color or very light tan would match better.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200925_124316.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200925_124236.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200925_124030.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200925_123929.jpg

.... changed to allow for 1 inch more swing retraction than in this photo but will not touch the glass

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200925_123921.jpg

*************

I added a couple screw holes in case I want to make this permanent.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap7.PNG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap8.PNG

***********

co-pilot side

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap9.PNG

[Steve Melton]

ready for install. this should last a lifetime. robust but light weight. the nut tightens the grip but no bolt tension is really needed as it is close fitting. locks in place when retracted. the retracted position is totally clear for loading baggage. I think I am going to like it. 99% of the time it will be in the down position. I'll try it with 3M dual lock velcro to see how durable the velcro really is. another option is to put a rivnut in the roll bar. product development cycle from start to finish and part in your hand..... 2 days. think about that.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4094.JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4091.JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4090.JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4092.JPG

[Steve Melton]

to be conservative I tested this without a nut for clamp, the bolt is free. a 20 lb load was applied to the end of the arm and held for 1 hr. the unit showed no weakness and slight bending was as predicted by the stress analysis. then a nut was added and the unit was installed in my aircraft using 3M dual lock velcro.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200926_111433.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200926_111456.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200926_111450.jpg

[Steve Melton]

using high temp 3M dual lock velcro. this velcro has held my D2 on the panel for three years an shows no issues and I am impressed with it. the other option is to use the existing holes in the support and fasten with screws using rivnuts. I was tempted to go directly to rivnuts but I wanted to understand the dual lock performance. I like the function of the support. it gets the flight off to a good start by not having to hunt for my belts.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200926_113018(2).jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200926_114015(2).jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200926_114635.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200926_114615.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200926_114054.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200926_113604.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200926_113810.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200926_143925(2).jpg

[Steve Melton]

first time to print dark grey ASA, UV resistant. it appears darker without the flash. it's a nice dark grey.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4100.JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4105.JPG

**

this one is mounted 8.5 inches above the cross bar.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200927_145851.jpg

[Steve Melton]

working headset mount.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap1(3).PNG

******

not much to be added to this one since the base had been completed

effective arm length = 2.65 inches

attachment methods: fasteners, Goop adhesive, or 3M dual lock velcro.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap2(3).PNG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap3(9).PNG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap4(2).PNG

*****

I did something else and when I came back I didn't like the design so I made some changes to have a more positive stop and upper alignment. I could probably carve some material out of this but I just left it in for now. I can print these hollow with internal reinforcement, the weight delta would be minimal. I'll build and test it.

I wonder about time effects between design iterations. I believe it has to do with design requirements. If I had written the requirements down firstly such as: lever action, positive stop, stress margin, etc. I would have focused on each aspect more. There is another lesson for me. I should always write the requirements to be sure I have evaluated each one. I knew that but became lazy. Laziness can adversely affect a design.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap7(1).PNG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap8(1).PNG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap9(1).PNG

**

the base is 2x3 inch

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4125.JPG

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4117.JPG

[sahrens]

I like it. Not sure if the holes are necessary. If the plan is to mount this below the panel on the side of the aircraft it seems Velcro or some adhesive would be required.

I thought about using F-704 With rivets but that would leave the headsets more visible .

[Steve Melton]

for bonding, the holes are not needed and would look better if they were not there. I will include a version without the holes. the texture of the printed plastic should be good for bonding. the pad bonding area = 6 square inches.

plastic material is ASA, the same material used on exterior automotive trim. automotive trim adhesive such as Goop may be an option. http://eclecticproducts.com/downloads/tds-amazing-goop-automotive-english.pdf

3M dual lock specs. I've been impressed with this material so far. https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/801947O/duallock-psarollgoods-tds-june2012-pdf.pdf

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap10(1).PNG

[Steve Melton]

similar to what I have in metal but folds to be lower profile than what I have. sometimes my passenger headset falls off in heavy turbulence. so, slightly longer is a good thing. needs to be fitted with the vent in mind.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200929_112251.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200929_112226.jpg

[Steve Melton]

I really like these. the left hand picks them and the inside strap is the underside when stored.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200929_172241.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20200929_172327.jpg

[Steve Melton]

this 3M dual lock has been stored in my hangar for 4.5 yrs. purchased March 16, 2016. I'm putting it to the test. the load is within the dual lock specifications for the pad bonding area. this could be a very long test... years. I cantilever mounted my D2 from the panel with an angle pad using dual lock 3 years ago and it is solid and shows no adverse effects. I finally found a use for these dog screws, 1 lb and 1 oz total weight, about the same as a headset. loaded at the end of a 2.5 inch arm. the nice thing about the dual lock adhesive is that it is easily removable if you ever need to, if you know how. grab the corner with some needle nose pliers and twist and "roll" it off. you can also add some heat with a heat gun if you are careful or add some adhesive remover solvent. I have removed it in the past from painted surfaces with no issues.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201001_171929.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201001_171916.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201001_165626.jpg

[Snowflake]

If you rotate the entire base clockwise the dual-lock will release as well. No pliers needed, but you do need to be able to get a grip on the base.

[Steve Melton]

the Bill Duffy method.... gaining popularity

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4127.JPG

[Steve Melton]

I am wondering about a pair of tow bar brackets for the aft bulk head. something that is simple to stow but does not allow the bar to bounce out in turbulence or scratch my bulk head. I have the blue one for travel and red the bogi-bar for the hangar. I like the red bogi-bar better but the blue one is compact and what I travel with. bracket material is yet to be decided. mounting location is not decided but generally higher is better for me because sometimes I carry a lot of baggage and if it is mounted higher I don't have to dig thru as much baggage to get it.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap1(4).PNG

[Steve Melton]

printing in darkness, machine droning on.... virtually no wasted material

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4130.JPG

[jssaylor2007]

What printer do you use? I have a Creality Ender 3 Pro bought that should be here soon.

[Steve Melton]

ah yes, the ender 3. I use Lulzbot Taz from North Dakota. I need to fly there one day and meet them. Many machines. Good stuff. Additive is the future... it's just taking awhile to get there.

[jssaylor2007]

I chose the Ender because I also build/fly drones, and it has amazing community support. Do you still share your files?

[Steve Melton]

I share some of them on GPSDock1.com as Open Source. Some folks in New Zealand are giving them a try but I haven't heard how is working out for them. Trust me, it is very difficult to ship to New Zealand. A .stl travels much faster. The main thing is that they are NOT made in China. This is a worldwide endeavor and I'm sure the Chinese will ping me as they ping me weekly for work. http://www.gpsdock1.com

and also, for the ender 3, keep an eye on it. the connectors have been a failure point. fire is the hazard.

[RONSIM]

My magnetometer for my D10A is mounted on the floor just aft of the bulkhead, about 12 inches. I could not understand why my D10A and my AFS5600T were so far apart on the displayed magnetic heading. My ADAHRS for the 5600T is mounted in the aft fuselage.

After I removed the towbar from the bulkhead, the D10A read normal. Naturally, I played with the towbar position and could get as much as a 10* deflection with it on the bulkhead.

Stay safe, out there!

Ron

[Steve Melton]

My magnetometer for my D10A is mounted on the floor just aft of the bulkhead, about 12 inches. I could not understand why my D10A and my AFS5600T were so far apart on the displayed magnetic heading. My ADAHRS for the 5600T is mounted in the aft fuselage.

After I removed the towbar from the bulkhead, the D10A read normal. Naturally, I played with the towbar position and could get as much as a 10* deflection with it on the bulkhead.

Stay safe, out there!

Ron

hey, that's good info. I'll check mine before I go any further with the tow bar mount. my magnetometer is located under the tail intersection fairing.

[plehrke]

ah yes, the ender 3. I use Lulzbot Taz from North Dakota. I need to fly there one day and meet them. Many machines. Good stuff. Additive is the future... it's just taking awhile to get there.

What CAD package are you using? Would you recommend it for 3D printing stuff?
I have 35 years and maybe 50,000 hours of UG/NX experience at work and started looking at something for home to create stuff for yet to be decided/purchased 3D printer. Starting to gear up for a retirement hobby.

[Steve Melton]

What CAD package are you using? Would you recommend it for 3D printing stuff?
I have 35 years and maybe 50,000 hours of UG/NX experience at work and started looking at something for home to create stuff for yet to be decided/purchased 3D printer. Starting to gear up for a retirement hobby.

there are a lot of options for CAD:
FreeCad is my upcoming favorite, open source
Solidworks
Fusion 360
OnShape
etc.

[Steve Melton]

My magnetometer for my D10A is mounted on the floor just aft of the bulkhead, about 12 inches. I could not understand why my D10A and my AFS5600T were so far apart on the displayed magnetic heading. My ADAHRS for the 5600T is mounted in the aft fuselage.

After I removed the towbar from the bulkhead, the D10A read normal. Naturally, I played with the towbar position and could get as much as a 10* deflection with it on the bulkhead.

Stay safe, out there!

Ron

there is NO interference with the tow bar and magnetometer in my RV9. my magnetometer is 6 ft aft of the baggage bulkhead under the intersection fairing. if the magnetometer is closer than 6 ft to the tow bar you could have a compass influence.

[Steve Melton]

this finishes the install. I made a jig to set it perfectly at 8.5 inch from the cross bar. 3M dual lock is the attachment method. part of the fun is buckling female passengers, leave it retracted not is use for them so you can help. but for Dennis, well, he can find his own straps on the seat belt support. the underside belt when stowed is the inside belt when strapped. the support locks in the retracted position and will not touch the glass.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201004_124308.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201004_125122.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201004_125242.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201004_131225.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201004_125354.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201004_125342.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201004_131044.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201004_131007.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201004_125816.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201004_125803.jpg

[Steve Melton]

this job is done.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201004_130145.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201004_130000.jpg

[BillL]

That is a very useful device. My 7's shoulder belts are a real pain. I was just thinking about a solution when you first posted this idea.

[Steve Melton]

co-pilot side concept. each side needs to be able to hold 1.5 lb x 9g = 13 lb for max condition. then maybe if someone is leaning on it perhaps 25 lb per side. with two screws on top ASA plastic should be OK. 3M Dual Lock at the bottom or a screw. I'm still pondering a top piece for the hook and will extend the chamfer at top downwards to the first ridge.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap2(4).PNG

***

long thin parts can be difficult to print.... we'll see how it goes. if you're printing something like this, raise the chamber temperature as high as possible. all cooling fans OFF.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap3(10).PNG

[Steve Melton]

well, that's not too bad. weight = 57 grams (2 oz). A robust design. perfectly flat. needs a fit check.

that's half the battle.... now for the other side.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4132.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4136.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4137.jpg

*************

yes, I work in bare feet.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4143.jpg

[Steve Melton]

first fit check was good. the part is usable but needed a couple small changes to dial it in. the opposite side bracket will confirm. the opposite side bracket is more complex since there are two hooks. the top hook supports the bar, the bottom hook simply traps. it should be easy to install by dropping it in the bottom hook and then lifting it over the top hook. the second bracket will be slightly heavier but I believe the total for both will be less than 140 grams (5 oz).

photos of the first single hook side and how it will look. good protection from my paint!

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201007_102108.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201007_102431.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201007_103450.jpg

******

I designed it in reverse orientation by 180 degrees but in this case it doesn't matter.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap1(5).PNG

[Steve Melton]

perhaps the weirdest part I have printed for the airplane. I changed from holes to small slots at top because I found I must not have drilled those bulkhead screws perfectly square. nice weather here in Cincy this week. it's time for a flight test.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4144.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4145.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20201007_104306.jpg

[Steve Melton]

I'm happy with it. check flight was smooth today but I don't believe it will be inclined to bounce out of the brackets even in turbulence. it held the bar position in place perfectly; no sliding around, no rattling, no noise, no touching. the dual lock velcro bumps out the bottom slightly but it is no issue. the bottom attachment can be velcro or add a screw. if you choose the velcro route, the install time is 10 minutes. the brackets protect the bulkhead paint from the tow bar very well. the ASA plastic will not damage the paint. the ASA plastic is UV resistant.

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[David Paule]

Is there a feature to keep the towbar from coming off in turbulence?

Dave

[Steve Melton]

Is there a feature to keep the towbar from coming off in turbulence?

Dave

no. if it does bounce out it will just hit the seat belt cables and fall to the floor. if someone wanted to attach a velcro strap that could be possible. I'm headed to the mountains in a couple of weeks so it will get tested.

[RV8JD]

no. if it does bounce out it will just hit the seat belt cables and fall to the floor. if someone wanted to attach a velcro strap that could be possible. I'm headed to the mountains in a couple of weeks so it will get tested.

As many accident reports have shown, it's not safe to have unsecured, or loosely secured, objects behind the pilot and passenger. If not firmly secured, it could come loose in turbulence and may not just fall to the floor harmlessly. It may go upward through the Plexiglas or come forward and hit the occupants.

And in an accident with significant deceleration, anything not firmly secured in the baggage compartment will rocket forward and may incapacitate, severely injure, or kill the pilot or passenger. This is pretty standard safety knowledge.

And using velcro to attach the towbar mounts to the bulkhead is not recommended for those reason either.

Below is an extreme example of a turbulence encounter that was recently published in KitPlanes. Luckily, nothing that came loose during the event hit the two pilots. But the owner is making changes to more securely tie down items in the cockpit and baggage area.

https://www.kitplanes.com/mr-bearhawks-wild-ride/

"The oxygen bottle (when installed) has always been secured by clamps to the floor under the rear seat. The spare tailwheel that I carry (main gear 6.00×6 tires can be found at almost any FBO—tailwheel tires and tubes are much rarer) is now kept in a mesh bag attached to the rear seat leg with a carabiner. The control locks (made from 550 cord and plastic cutting boards) are kept in a repurposed makeup bag, also now fastened to the rear seat tie-down ring with a carabiner.

A set of emergency tools were stored in a Rubbermaid plastic container under the pilot seat. Survival gear was stored in a similar container under the copilot seat. Both were tied off to the aircraft structure to prevent them from moving around. During this incident, the tool container was forced open, allowing some of the tools to float around the cabin. The handles of the containers are now tied together with avionics lacing cord to prevent their unintentional opening.

For larger loads, cargo nets were purchased from Harbor Freight for less than $10 each. These can be connected to tie-down rings with carabiners. Currently my rear seat is attached with four eyebolts that also serve as tie-down rings. An additional tie-down ring is at the bottom center of the rear bulkhead. This left the two rear corners without good tie-down points. The solution was to fabricate a tube with eyebolts at each end to span across the floor at the rear bulkhead. The tube is held down by a bolt or eyebolt through the current tie-down location in the center. The cargo nets are able to work whether the rear seat remains installed or not."

[Steve Melton]

an oxygen bottle should be secured. it's heavy and shaped like a missile.

I haven't had any issues with items in the baggage area so far. things seem to stay put back there for me, even in severe turbulence (the kind where you are holding the base of both sticks and leaning towards the middle, downwind of mountains). the baggage area can be a busy area with a lot of items that can snag on other items when loading and unloading. for now, I chose to keep the tow bar brackets as snag free as possible. if someone wishes they could devise a safety latch of some kind.

[Snowflake]

And using velcro to attach the towbar mounts to the bulkhead is not recommended for those reason either.
FWIW, the "velcro" in question is 3M Dual-Lock. It's about as strong as "velcro" like products come, and is extremely difficult to disconnect when pulled normal to the bonding plane.

That said: I would recommend weighing the towbar, multiplying by 20, and seeing if the ASA plastic hooks can withstand it. I could easily see them seeing a 20G deceleration or more in an accident.

I would be more concerned about it coming loose during a roll or a slight negative G load during a less-than-perfect loop, and then falling forward on the backside of the loop into my head...

[Steve Melton]

recommend to take the tow bar out as well as other loose items if you plan on doing acro.... that would just be common sense.

[Steve Melton]

a device for splicing cooling air to filament guide tube for printing. good for tubes that are parallel.

a widget

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap1(6).PNG

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filament travels inside the white tube and stays cool inside a hot chamber. that's the plan anyway. I have not seen this anywhere else. this may be a first. low flow air. a very low cost and simple printing mod.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4149.JPG

[Vlad]

Steve is designing and printing a fuel funnel with integral filter a big task? I use a plastic one with molded screen almost daily and it’s starting to show its age. I couldn’t find similar anywhere. Also store funnels have narrow neck and it’s hard to keep them inserted when windy.

[Steve Melton]

Steve is designing and printing a fuel funnel with integral filter a big task? I use a plastic one with molded screen almost daily and it’s starting to show its age. I couldn’t find similar anywhere. Also store funnels have narrow neck and it’s hard to keep them inserted when windy.

I'll take a look at it. I purchased another printer today with a high flow nozzle. this may be a good application for it.

[koupster]

Vlad,

Been using one like this:
https://www.amazon.com/WirthCo-32006-Funnel-Safety-Screen/dp/B000CQBNJY/ref=asc_df_B000CQBNJY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312065537890&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14690774036733083147&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029755&hvtargid=pla-569205881746&psc=1
A few more rubles, but better filtration:
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00N4UN1W2?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-org00-def00-other-smile-us000-pcomp-feature-scomp-wm-5&ref=aa_scomp

Cheers, David
RV-6A kBTF

[Snowflake]

recommend to take the tow bar out as well as other loose items if you plan on doing acro.... that would just be common sense.

I'd never be able to bring the towbar with me if that were the case. I rarely fly without going upside down. Definitely common sense to secure everything though, hence the desire for a strap or lock to keep the towbar in the holder.

[Vlad]

Vlad,

Been using one like this:
https://www.amazon.com/WirthCo-32006-Funnel-Safety-Screen/dp/B000CQBNJY/ref=asc_df_B000CQBNJY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312065537890&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14690774036733083147&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029755&hvtargid=pla-569205881746&psc=1
A few more rubles, but better filtration:
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00N4UN1W2?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-org00-def00-other-smile-us000-pcomp-feature-scomp-wm-5&ref=aa_scomp

Cheers, David
RV-6A kBTF

Thanks David these work perfect in calm weather. Notice they both have thin tips. RV fueling openings are much larger and any wind tips the funnels over. I use a siphon pump to transfer from jerry cans.

[Steve Melton]

added .25 inch to the hooks. accessibility should still be OK and the bar will have a more difficult time jumping out. hole added at the bottom for optional screw in place of velcro if desired. these will fit RV7, 9.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/cap2(6).PNG

[GeoffP]

Steve,

Have you thought of making lugs to mimic the wheel tow bar bolt to attach the wheel end of your towbar to? You can keep the same basic shape to mate to the baggage compartment rear wall, just replace the hooks with outward facing lugs. This would then mean the tow-bar spring will hold it in place, i.e, place the fixed side on the top, then hold open and clamp onto the lower lug.

This might mean though that you'd have greasy grimy lugs in your baggage compartment. Just a thought though, but it would help to keep the bar more secure in turbulence etc.

[Steve Melton]

Steve,

Have you thought of making lugs to mimic the wheel tow bar to attach the wheel end of your tower to? You can keep the same basic shape to mate to the baggage compartment rear wall, just replace the hooks with outward facing lugs. This would then mean the tow-bar spring will hold it in place, i.e, place the fixed side on the top, then hold open and clamp onto the lower lug.

This might mean though that you'd have greasy grimy lugs in your baggage compartment. Just a thought though, but it would help to keep the bar more secure in turbulence etc.

that's a neat thought. albeit, a bit more painful getting the tow bar installed. it is difficult enough for me to reach back there because I'm getting older. I prefer to make it as easy to drop in as possible. I haven't had any trouble over the past many years with any of my baggage.... and I always carry stuff. I'm confident these tow bar brackets will be fine. I put them on my website. they are not cheap and probably not for everyone but the nice thing about these plastic brackets is the tow bar does not rattle and make any noise. at least that I could hear to the best of my ability. :) also, I wanted them to be as snag proof as possible when removing items.

the nice thing about the Van's site is that we bounce ideas around and leverage to make something as good as we can. everyone has ideas, but the people on this site typically give good honest evaluation of designs. I like your idea, see if you can make it work.

[Steve Melton]

RVPlasticParts is printing a couple GPS Docks for GPS Dock 1 LLC for some Cessna's tonight. this kind of stuff could not be believed 5 yrs ago. they seem to appear out of thin air. print on demand to custom requirements, no inventory. I am still amazed by this technology. perfectly flat and square to .002 inch tolerance typically. if possible, print the dock to fit the panel, don't modify the panel for the dock. this saves time and effort.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4152.JPG

[Steve Melton]

not too bad in dark grey. it might look good with the blue tow bar. this color appears darker without the flash. I like it.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4155.jpg

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[walkman]

there are a lot of options for CAD:
FreeCad is my upcoming favorite, open source
Solidworks
Fusion 360
OnShape
etc.

And you missed my fave - OpenSCAD.

Its my primary go to now because I like to write physical objects as code and I tend to develop parametric designs. For example terminator blocks where I input the number of terminals, minimum insulation thickness, size of the stud and so on and it generates the stl file. All of this can be fully automated and scripted as well, with Jenkins for example.

Also OpenSCAD lets me create and use my own shared libraries. So over time for the radio replacement panels I make for Porsche 911's I've got a library of different options for USB or RCA jacks, different remote amp heads and various gauges. So, if someone wants a 2-gauge pod with a USB charging port and a 3.5mm stereo headset jack I just uncomment or comment out a couple of lines of code and print it.

I wouldn't recommend it if you can't write code however.

Simplify3d is the best slicer I've used and worth the $100 or so license cost.

[mr.sun]

Steve, How about a water bottle holder that allows a plastic water bottle to rest up against the exterior skin of the baggage compartment in a side by side RV. Just behind the seat is within reach and the cold fuselage skin at normal RV cruise altitudes would keep liquid refreshments nice and cool. I'd love one for my -7. Using baggage to hold it up against the skin works only for a while until the baggage shifts. Proves the concept, though, water is cooled down pretty quick.

[Steve Melton]

Steve, How about a water bottle holder that allows a plastic water bottle to rest up against the exterior skin of the baggage compartment in a side by side RV. Just behind the seat is within reach and the cold fuselage skin at normal RV cruise altitudes would keep liquid refreshments nice and cool. I'd love one for my -7. Using baggage to hold it up against the skin works only for a while until the baggage shifts. Proves the concept, though, water is cooled down pretty quick.

good idea. did we settle on the perfect RV water bottle yet? I need a new one.

[Snowflake]

Have you thought about printing the towbar supports asymmetrically, so you could save a bunch of support material? Kind of like this (simplified):

[Steve Melton]

Have you thought about printing the towbar supports asymmetrically, so you could save a bunch of support material? Kind of like this (simplified):

I thought about it. the angle gets steep on the side. I prefer the symmetrical design. if the support material is reasonable then I go with the preferred design. I want them to look good. the cost is slightly higher to do this but I'm convinced they will be in place for a long time.

post a photo of your final design to see how it looks along with your printed part.

[Snowflake]

post a photo of your final design to see how it looks along with your printed part.
Oh, I wasn't going to take it that far. I just did a quick sketch to help explain what I was asking. I've spent a fair bit of time on designs making them print with the minimum amount of support material, just to keep surfaces smooth and clean and reduce cleanup time. Asymmetry sometimes looks like a nice design feature as well.

If the supports had the common flat side facing each other, or facing away from each other, when installed then symmetry across the baggage compartment would be maintained. The dual-lock pad area could be made wider if you wanted to center the dual-lock on the screws, but that probably isn't necessary.

I do like the idea of using the towbar tubes that normally grab the nose/tailwheel to grab onto the mount though. You could use those to grab the fingers on a mount, and then give the towbar a push and let it swing back like a door into a set of fingers that the handle locks into.

[Steve Melton]

Oh, I wasn't going to take it that far. I just did a quick sketch to help explain what I was asking. I've spent a fair bit of time on designs making them print with the minimum amount of support material, just to keep surfaces smooth and clean and reduce cleanup time. Asymmetry sometimes looks like a nice design feature as well.

If the supports had the common flat side facing each other, or facing away from each other, when installed then symmetry across the baggage compartment would be maintained. The dual-lock pad area could be made wider if you wanted to center the dual-lock on the screws, but that probably isn't necessary.

I do like the idea of using the towbar tubes that normally grab the nose/tailwheel to grab onto the mount though. You could use those to grab the fingers on a mount, and then give the towbar a push and let it swing back like a door into a set of fingers that the handle locks into.

it's not far. let's see what you can do.

[Steve Melton]

fixed with dura lock at the bottom. pull tested to 20 lb. in this case the dura lock is 4.5 yrs old and has been laying around in my hangar.

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dark grey pieces.

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[MacCool]

I need these oil filler cap and breather adapters for my engine dehyrator. I don't have a 3-D printer...is there a company that will do the printing if I supply the file?

https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/7349-lycoming-oil-dipstick-adapter-plug-breather-tube-a/files

[Steve Melton]

I need these oil filler cap and breather adapters for my engine dehyrator. I don't have a 3-D printer...is there a company that will do the printing if I supply the file?

https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/7349-lycoming-oil-dipstick-adapter-plug-breather-tube-a/files

I printed those and they didn't work.

a model I designed here that works with smooth running threads. I used mine for about a year now. it's like new as it should be. https://www.rvplasticparts.com/product-page/lycoming-oil-cap-dehydrator-connection

[MacCool]

I printed those and they didn't work.

a model I designed here that works with smooth running threads. I used my for about a year now. it's like new as it should be. https://www.rvplasticparts.com/product-page/lycoming-oil-cap-dehydrator-connection

Nice. Thanks Steve. Is the cap on my IO-320 oil filler 1 1/4 - 12 ? I thought I had read that it was 1 1/8...

[Steve Melton]

it's best to measure them because the sizes vary. standard Lycoming and Superior is 1 1/4 but the Thunderbolt is 1 1/8. that is my best knowledge at this time.

[MacCool]

it's best to measure them because the sizes vary. standard Lycoming and Superior is 1 1/4 but the Thunderbolt is 1 1/8. that is my best knowledge at this time.

Thanks. My engine isn't a Thunderbolt, but I'll check the size.

[Steve Melton]

a nice looking glare shield cover by José Javier Pancorbo Castro.

the plastic intersection cover is the long version and worked it better than the shorter version.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/brace_glareshield_intersection_cover.jpg

[ALagonia]

a nice looking glare shield cover by José Javier Pancorbo Castro.

the plastic intersection cover is the long version and worked it better than the shorter version.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/brace_glareshield_intersection_cover.jpg

How does it fit over the support? Is it a two piece item?
I’ve been looking for something to cover the seam in my glare shield covering.

[Steve Melton]

one piece. it flexes over the bar.

[Steve Melton]

first tow bar brackets to ship - dark grey. they should look nice with the blue tow bar. 10 minute install if you use the dura lock option instead of the lower fastener. beefy parts.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4173.jpg

[Steve Melton]

some may prefer to drill the holes at the top vs having small slots so there is an option for that. the flanges, hooks and webs are printed solidly.

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[ALagonia]

one piece. it flexes over the bar.
I see on your order form there are two sizes, long and short. What is the length of each please?

[Steve Melton]

I see on your order form there are two sizes, long and short. What is the length of each please?

dimensions with photos are on the website.

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what is becoming clear to me is the the Bill Duffy method for building sliding canopy's is becoming ever more popular. it may eventually become the standard procedure. another canopy guide block drill tool. he may have changed the entire sequence for the better.

here's a tip that I use for machining / drilling plastics. toss them in the refrigerator for 30 minutes before hand. they machine much better. as a drill guide tool, I could see the benefit of cooling the plastic before drilling because the bit can become warm. also, this could work for small fiberglass parts but probably not the same extent as thermoplastics.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh519/semelton500/DSCN4175(1).JPG

[Steve Melton]

I decided I preferred the grey brackets and changed the install to have the final version. I have an upcoming trip so I will have a chance to test it with baggage. I designed it to be snag resistant. Hopefully it works. the grey brackets look better with the blue tow bar.

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