a couple printed ideas [Archive] - Page 3

az_gila

05-06-2018, 07:06 PM

YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK. LOOKS GOOD. THE EXISTING RV10 TRAY IS 7 1/2" lONG by 5" deep. I GOT THIS INFO FROM VANS BATTERY THAT HE SELLS. IF YOU NEED A MORE PRECISE DIMENSION, I WILL NEED TO OPEN THE TAIL CONE AND MEASURE. YOUR CALL; NOT TOO MUCH WORK FOR THE BEST FIT. I SEND YOU N INSTALLATION PIC THAT I FOUND ON THE WEBSITE. I MAY HAVE TO SEND YOU THE PIC DIRECTLY TO YOU EMAIL UNLESS I FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT HERE.

Just measured mine.

7.50 x 5.063 with a rounded inside bend radius on the long sides only.

Steve Melton

05-06-2018, 07:21 PM

what do you guesstimate the size of the radius on the long side?

Just measured mine.

7.50 x 5.063 with a rounded inside bend radius on the long sides only.

flysrv10

05-07-2018, 09:50 AM

Steve Melton

05-07-2018, 10:01 AM

don't worry about the radius at the bottom. we will take care of that with a chamfer for clearance. we want the measurements of the top edges. seems like we lost 0.5 inch going from 7.5 to 7.0.

STEVE,

I MEASURED MINE AND I AM GETTING 5"X7" TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE RADIOS. DON'T KNOW IF THE FLANGES ARE BENT GIVING THE FRACTION MEASURED BY AZ_GILA (THANKS FOR TAKING YOUR DIMS AZ_GILA). I WILL SEND YOU A PIC TO YOUR PERSONAL EMAIL AFTER TGHIS EMAIL. THANKS.

az_gila

05-07-2018, 02:05 PM

STEVE,

I MEASURED MINE AND I AM GETTING 5"X7" TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE RADIOS. DON'T KNOW IF THE FLANGES ARE BENT GIVING THE FRACTION MEASURED BY AZ_GILA (THANKS FOR TAKING YOUR DIMS AZ_GILA). I WILL SEND YOU A PIC TO YOUR PERSONAL EMAIL AFTER TGHIS EMAIL. THANKS.

Let me verify the 7.5"

I might have just assumed the previously stated dimension was correct and that I had it on the major markings on the ruler.

Steve Melton

05-07-2018, 03:39 PM

Gil, I'm trusting your first measurement. Print underway.

Let me verify the 7.5"

I might have just assumed the previously stated dimension was correct and that I had it on the major markings on the ruler.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zpsdwl7at8r.png

az_gila

05-07-2018, 04:49 PM

Going out in the heat to check the dimensions, :) but this pic shows the radius at the bottom of the tray -

http://halie.com/oEK.jpg

az_gila

05-07-2018, 06:22 PM

Steve, I just checked, it is 7.5 inches on the long dimension.

A 3/8 drill bit fits nicely inside the radius shown on the bottom of the long sides of the tray.

Steve Melton

05-07-2018, 07:21 PM

thank you. we are good to go. the print is almost done. I've been out flying doing a check flight after my condition inspection. the only mod I made was to drill off the seat back hinge upper adjustment to allow the seat to go fully back. small change but I like it.

Steve, I just checked, it is 7.5 inches on the long dimension.

A 3/8 drill bit fits nicely inside the radius shown on the bottom of the long sides of the tray.

it's a nice part. on the make.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2754_zps4ododmt0.jpg

that's a nice little tray.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2759_zpsjcdmsr5a.jpg

smooth backside and perfectly flat

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2765_zpsrqfdxd5d.jpg

Vlad

05-10-2018, 07:15 PM

Got all the goodies Steve pass thanks to Amanda nice job! Will install tomorrow. Let's see how they survive the beating. Will report here after first thousand hours on them :D

Steve Melton

05-10-2018, 08:57 PM

cool beans. thanks passed along to Amanda.

Got all the goodies Steve pass thanks to Amanda nice job! Will install tomorrow. Let's see how they survive the beating. Will report here after first thousand hours on them :D

Steve Melton

05-28-2018, 07:34 AM

could be an option for Summer flying to keep the big bugs out.

slip on fuel vent cover

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zps9rjw0ydf.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap5_zps9xzwfwed.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsjhispxip.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zps4h2ehxrm.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zpse49u78ck.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2777_zpsumstbprf.jpg

rv7charlie

05-28-2018, 09:05 PM

Certainly *looks* cooler than my little discs of aluminum window screen, prosealed on my vent openings. Not sure it would be as effective, though. We have bees & wasps in my area that are quite adept at plugging a 1/8" hole.

Charlie

Steve Melton

05-29-2018, 05:00 AM

if it is plugged, pop it off, throw it away, put on another and go.

rv7charlie

05-29-2018, 07:13 AM

if it is plugged, pop it off, throw it away, put on another and go.
You must not have the same critters in your neck of the woods. The ones down here start building several to many inches up the tube, and work their way out.

Besides, the whole point is to avoid the plug.

Bill Boyd

05-29-2018, 07:58 AM

Not sure about Mississippi mud daubers, but I've found their Virginia cousins are completely stymied by a piece of safety wire bent in the shape of a large bobby pin (for friction retention) and shoved into the pitot tube. Easily pulled on preflight like a dipstick to check for mud/bug guts - but I never see any.

Like Charlie I have screen mesh over the fuel vents, but I think the wavy safety wire trick would work as well. I had several instances of aborted takeoffs due to invisible wasp clogs in the pitot before I did this. Fuel vents had screens from day one.

Steve Melton

05-29-2018, 10:11 AM

screens and this plastic piece can freeze in the Winter. Better to have it open in the Winter.

Certainly *looks* cooler than my little discs of aluminum window screen, prosealed on my vent openings. Not sure it would be as effective, though. We have bees & wasps in my area that are quite adept at plugging a 1/8" hole.

Charlie

Steve Melton

05-30-2018, 10:34 AM

proto1 tested. no change to fuel pressure observed with half tank.

proto2

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap6_zpszj4skqz0.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap7_zpsf1sjjjav.png

aparchment

05-30-2018, 12:23 PM

Steve,
For those who are concerned about smaller insects, they could also embed a micro screen between the plastic and the vent fitting.

laz

05-31-2018, 08:17 PM

when will these be available

Steve Melton

05-31-2018, 09:17 PM

flight testing proved no change to fuel pressure. still needs some work.

right side

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180531_194101%201_zpstui3ukiu.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180531_194439_zpsdavcbp7j.jpg

left side

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180531_194809_zpspld14xtd.jpg

Steve Melton

06-02-2018, 09:24 AM

I have been using tape to cover my fuel caps when I am on the ramp. A couple of times I did not and found water in my tanks. However, the tape leaves a sticky residue and I wondering if there is a better way. What about a contoured cover that is secured by a small piece of hard high temp interlocking velcro to the cap, something like a short axial strip?

inner groove is for o-ring

outer groove is a water shedding runner

sketches

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsxo34x9xc.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsfzdfsujb.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpsz1ximcyk.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zpsnhjwdbvb.png

az_gila

06-02-2018, 10:14 AM

Perhaps a bonded on magnet to hold the fuel cap cover in place?

Steve Melton

06-02-2018, 10:31 AM

Perhaps a bonded on magnet to hold the fuel cap cover in place?

that's even better

larrynew

06-02-2018, 01:35 PM

Steve,

If you?re taking suggestions, the wire clips on Friday?s VAF front page would be a nice addition to Amanda?s business.

flysrv10

06-03-2018, 08:57 AM

Steve,

If you?re taking suggestions, the wire clips on Friday?s VAF front page would be a nice addition to Amanda?s business.

I vote for wire clips also.

Steve Melton

06-03-2018, 09:00 AM

hard to compete with those injected mass produced parts

larrynew

06-03-2018, 09:23 AM

hard to compete with those injected mass produced parts

I ordered some and would be happy to send you one. The cheapest I could get them delivered was $2.82 each in a 4 pack. Thought that seemed high but maybe not?

Steve Melton

06-03-2018, 09:30 AM

We currently only print ABS material, continuous use 80C (176F). Components in the engine compartment need to be higher temp capable.

flyeyes

06-03-2018, 09:52 AM

Hi Steve

With your vent covers are you trying to keep bugs (mud wasps) out while parked or are you trying to prevent airborne impacts?

larrynew

06-03-2018, 09:55 AM

We currently only print ABS material, continuous use 80C (176F). Components in the engine compartment need to be higher temp capable.

OK. Got it. Thanks.

Steve Melton

06-04-2018, 04:44 AM

Hi Steve

With your vent covers are you trying to keep bugs (mud wasps) out while parked or are you trying to prevent airborne impacts?

something to replace the bonded screen that could be easily removed in the Winter. I have seen bugs on the plane while it sits on the ramp and I wondered if some crawled into the fuel vents.

flyeyes

06-04-2018, 06:33 AM

Ahh, Ok.

Why remove a bonded screen in the winter? Is there a downside I?m not seeing to just leaving it on permanently?

I?ve thought about adding something to prevent icing, but haven?t out of laziness, and because my airplane has never gotten near ice.

I?ve always admired the elegance and simplicity of the ?pooor man?s inertial separator? approach that Cessna used on the strut-braced singles. The fuel vents face forward like RV vents, but are in the slipstream of the wing struts so that air can get to the opening but bugs and ice won?t make the turn.

I?ve seen a certified airplane with a plastic airfoil shape in front of the vent to accomplish the same thing, but can?t remember which plane it was.

Steve Melton

06-10-2018, 04:25 PM

smaller diameter. magnetic hold. soft silicone seal. seal will trap in the plastic geometry, no glue. magnets glued in place.

RV9 geometry, each wing is different, so each cap model must be different to fit perfectly.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap5_zpsgriapto0.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsovbn4sll.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zps2f5sq2s5.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap6_zpsm5r6lapr.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsjzyn1cio.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpse5bmeiq3.png

rv7charlie

06-10-2018, 05:58 PM

Hmmm. I wonder if anyone makes a suction cup (similar to what's used to stick stuff to windshields) big enough to completely cover the cap. If so, a low profile disc type magnet bonded inside might allow the same technique, and it would be nearly universal in fit.

Charlie

rv7charlie

06-10-2018, 06:25 PM

Steve Melton

06-10-2018, 07:19 PM

a couple of tweaks made based on feedback and I located a battery for a fit check at Batteries Plus.

As the original, the center section is raised slightly to ensure no stress points at the battery edges.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2804_zpsdlwqxfzs.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2799_zps7hvhd89b.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpslmuppoui.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsjfiupbnr.png

Snowflake

06-11-2018, 07:42 AM

RV9 geometry, each wing is different, so each cap model must be different to fit perfectly.
If I recall, the -4 and -6 are identical, and the -7 and -8 are identical. So maybe not as many models as you think.

How about a molded-in arrow (marked "front") or maybe just a groove or ridge, to help align it properly?

Steve Melton

06-11-2018, 03:02 PM

good point, some wings are common.

needs a notch on the fwd edge.

thx

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2805_zpstxdu1hke.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2806_zpsebms3ugw.jpg

If I recall, the -4 and -6 are identical, and the -7 and -8 are identical. So maybe not as many models as you think.

How about a molded-in arrow (marked "front") or maybe just a groove or ridge, to help align it properly?

Steve Melton

06-12-2018, 07:18 PM

looks good but doesn't work. a flat spot on the inboard and outboard edge created by the riveted cap flange prevents a good seal. further from the cap, between the ribs, the fit is good but don't need it there. need to adjust the surface profile and change to a more compliant gasket. overall, I still like the concept.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180612_173429_zpsdgyd2xyr.jpg

edit: this is DIY paint (no buffing), sometimes you just have to smile

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180612_173421_zpsba2qyye6.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180612_180327_zpsxzg1indq.jpg

Steve Melton

06-15-2018, 01:14 PM

added contour adjustment features to the model. changed to a more compliant seal.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zps7bwnhcru.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2809_zpswyn1cwlt.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2807_zpsnkaqekw2.jpg

Steve Melton

06-16-2018, 07:32 AM

will also evaluate this soft seal.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsuwl9mvpn.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsqgorpktt.png

Steve Melton

06-16-2018, 08:11 PM

reduced to two blades

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpscamk4hhs.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsz73ocaql.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpsyex8cbil.png

Steve Melton

06-17-2018, 07:58 AM

kicking around a PC680 battery tray

the floor of this tray is raised .020 to ensure no contact on the radius edges.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpspsm94l7k.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsms9pbt65.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpspxbga5ax.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zpswpztwep3.png

a nice print

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2810_zpsfz51impf.jpg

Steve Melton

06-17-2018, 04:30 PM

water test was good. wind speed test, fuel cap cover departed at 35 kts on the runway. I am using grade 50 magnets but the fuel cap stem is stainless so not much mag force, but enough to make a good seal. need to find a way to withstand at least 70 kts. I have an idea how to do this.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180617_145549_zps0ftf72z5.jpg

fuel cap is dry
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180617_145841_zps2ijfoomn.jpg

on route to high speed taxi

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180617_152728_zpsp8zetb7p.jpg

Steve Melton

06-18-2018, 04:16 PM

the RV9 prototype fuel cap cover with magnet only departed the wing at 35 kts on the takeoff roll. the vibration from the takeoff roll could have contributed to the separation. so perhaps it could stay attached at a higher speed if vibration was not present. it's a slim clean design that only weights 21 grams.

the next prototype will include a hook that slips in the space just fwd of the latch. perhaps with both the magnet and hook I can reach the goal of 70 kts.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpswnsyvyfu.png

Steve Melton

06-18-2018, 08:46 PM

further testing is promising. I found that orienting the gap in the seal to the side adds 10 kts to the separation speed for the non-hook variation. that's another 10 kts delta for separation at 45 kts. it is becoming my favorite because is it so simple and easily stored in the baggage area. the hook version separated at 48 kts but the hook was not optimized. will repeat the test with an optimized hook to achieve the goal of 70 kts. In a weird way I like calling the FBO and notifying that I lost a couple airplane parts on the runway and then scooting by on my Honda CB125 to retrieve them from the runway with the corporate pilots standing in the FBO, looking and shaking their heads.

the blow down test
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180618_202143_zpskbsmxzhx.jpg

gap in seal oriented fwd contributed to separation at 35 kts. notch is fwd.
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180618_202215_zpsoqpwi3xi.jpg

gap in seal oriented to the side added 10 kts to separation (45 kts)
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180618_202300_zpsieo6229p.jpg

gap with hook with seal oriented to the side separated at 48 kts. the hook was not optimized so this can be better. I'm impressed with the ease of fitting the hook fuel cap cover. I am confident I can reach 70 kts.
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180618_202314_zpsgf0ac5ba.jpg

a possible storage location. tape on magnet is temporary since I am prototyping.
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180618_212051_zpsepomptdp.jpg

the test vehicle
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180618_203436_zpsst1cvcly.jpg

David Paule

06-19-2018, 08:10 AM

Steve Melton

06-19-2018, 10:12 AM

For the folks who have an ADAHRS or magnetometer in the middle of the tailcone somewhere, will this affect their compass calibration?

I'd be concerned that if there was any effect, it would vary day to day as pilots moved these things around the aircraft for storage. In my opinion, magnets in an airplane that aren't permanently fixed in place, might become an unexpected hazard.

Could the magnets be attached to the fuel cap rather than the cover?

Dave

At this time, I don't know how I could do that. Maybe something will turn up.

My magnetometer is under the aft fairing about six feet away. So it should be OK. My whiskey compass is about four feet forward. It could be affected.

Steve Melton

06-20-2018, 08:24 PM

for me, the magnetometer is located six feet aft of the baggage bulkhead and the whiskey compass is located five feet forward of the baggage bulkhead. it couldn't detect any magnetic interference on a short test flight.

I reduced the edge profile to the seal with no hook as much as possible to decrease the area outside the seal to minimize the lifting area. I was able to gain 5 kts in separation speed with this change for separation at 50 kts. This is becoming my favorite configuration because it is simple and clean. I believe this is getting close to being offered to Amanda for her website. She calculated about $25 for a pair. The nice thing about these is that if the seal becomes degraded for any reason it can easily be replaced for low cost. The seal material is high grade, inner closed cell, solid outer shell, and I expect long life. Part weight = 21 grams each. Weight for a pair = 42 grams.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180620_175223_zps8ej16cqa.jpg

The fuel cover with what I thought would be an optimized hook separated at 45 kts. this was a disappointment. it did not have the reduced outer profile but I expected the hook to provide some benefit. my next iteration with the hook will be to add an angle to ensure the hook contacts at the bottom firstly. more to come on this. still attempting to get to 70 kts.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180620_175319_zps3tj34fih.jpg

a version for RV7 and 8 is also in the works.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsqahysmpd.png

RV9 version

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpsofeuskoi.png

Steve Melton

06-20-2018, 08:49 PM

a good fit. no, an exact fit!

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180620_173938_zps7vlcutcq.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180620_173955_zpsjci2lpey.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180620_174056_zpslfpyccws.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180620_174151_zpsnswruvpu.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180620_174100_zpsvemzg2nt.jpg

rv7charlie

06-20-2018, 10:01 PM

So, will it get bigger at the same rate as the battery case, as things heat up?

Steve Melton

06-21-2018, 04:51 AM

So, will it get bigger at the same rate as the battery case, as things heat up?

what is the temperature rise of this battery above its environment?

rv7charlie

06-21-2018, 05:42 AM

I was really talking about environmental changes; same issue as canopy vs frame expansion rates cracking canopies. But you're right; charge/discharge rates can heat a battery, as well. I was kinda joking about the 'perfect fit' phrase, but if it's really a tight fit, could expansion pressure damage either the case or the tray?

Steve Melton

06-21-2018, 05:45 AM

it has about .030 inch clearance on the width and .020 inch on the length.

n981ms

06-21-2018, 06:02 AM

Somebody might want a tab sticking out of your tank cover that would function as cap removal tool. It would detract from the simplicity and symmetry but add a touch of functionality.

Steve Melton

06-21-2018, 10:19 AM

Somebody might want a tab sticking out of your tank cover that would function as cap removal tool. It would detract from the simplicity and symmetry but add a touch of functionality.

thx, I'll keep that in mind as a future option.

azflyer21

06-21-2018, 10:44 AM

Steve,
Just a suggestion, a handle for the tip up canopy would be a nice addition to your product line. Something to fit the C-01405C.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/FTqLNkZJGG4CnbEoD91bhCcSEsHDb5UgRvlbaHCmEXOnMQSUdM HReIMDNCnFNQl-J9xRKCYgRILw4pjHP2Vih55Wn3rxaah0usdXgbw1pDBfqnuLdA Co_Nw03eJclBJMFPmXKznL8onBAJOPFv3rik5pR4zG8mgSnfvL QOvkKwBAsHxSuAo37CrxFI-4H3MeIo_Yg9i7iWzziIxT8TTTGi-p8u3tIdWk6A6pM7FS4vJiyWvII3B5xwvywbcm0fhAFCDM866Ex pJHam8tAJognWjfOt5u94-FugmBBXqfWec-XSFWoSUTSU10d_zf510kBTavsrdmyNcJ9Myganq6lHYXjriPgc KEoAzXpaBSgzNo6D735s_FYqbPS4G7055NmG6dza-WiIsWrEYV_eNpP3-30s7P_IbuOgXjboPTFcJ0OlUY_nK9VPdb7VJdNTNGvutvshZcL Oq2L1V4BGbAFiibAR9eCaVVX4AeFOoc10CbW7pS4q_jF5KMYSJ MLDPeAlUiw_NCEK5EvryYyAKWoYPSSh8XwZlgaL0mwFJ0f9v-YO6JGbFhbxSJFpVksSi3xzo1yrd8D3OtKBrlNkEEswEFPXQ4Et PxxQBYVtIz=w1920-h1080-no

Snowflake

06-22-2018, 08:07 AM

Kevin, your photo doesn't show up.

Steve Melton

06-22-2018, 03:31 PM

I could see the picture earlier but cannot now. My neighbor has a 14 so I'll take a look at it. thx for the idea.

Steve Melton

06-22-2018, 04:15 PM

final RV9 fuel cap cover

Amanda was able to add and successfully print a radius on on the flow path side to make a smooth transition. I usually limit the build angle to 45 degrees off the bed but that left a sharp corner. This should add a couple knots to the separation speed and looks better overall. seal split line is oriented on the inside to take advantage of the wing dihedral angle to aid drainage. substantial testing with sprinkle water and deluge water resulted in no water ingress to the fuel cap.

pilot side

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsf9ublnf2.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsvkl0h3mj.png

co-pilot side

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zps2r9vcrum.png

Vlad

06-23-2018, 02:05 PM

Steve,

Reporting from Dutch Harbor with the first 100 hours on the flap fairings. Somebody even asked me what type of flap actuators I had. :)

Tell Amanda I will be contacting her in couple years to be an RTW sponsor hoping her business will increase multifold. Good job on those fairings thank you! Sleek, functional, good looking. There is a speed increase having them. Did I mention they distract the lookers from my rusty bottom skins. :D

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/N666BK/Dutch%20Harbor%20-%201.jpg (http://s447.photobucket.com/user/N666BK/media/Dutch%20Harbor%20-%201.jpg.html)

Steve Melton

06-23-2018, 05:46 PM

good to hear. I'll tell Amanda. we discuss you photo's over the dinner table and imagine your adventures. I have similar flight hours on my flap fairings but you will soon zoom past me.

Steve Melton

06-24-2018, 06:06 PM

the fuel cap covers have a magnet installed in the center. I sandwiched them together and stuck them to a screw head on the aft baggage bulkhead. there was no interference to the compass headings. then I moved them forward and verified magnetic compass interference anywhere within two feet of the compass card. basically, anywhere in the cockpit would affect my compass card. anywhere in the baggage area did not affect the compass. my electronic magnetic compass is under the aft intersection fairing and was never affected.

no compass interference

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180624_080526_zps9qhahl7e.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180624_083129_zpsknf5llr5.jpg

compass interference

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180624_083153_zps2064ukjx.jpg

BHunt

06-26-2018, 06:43 AM

Steve,
There is a speed increase having them.

How much of an increase?

Steve Melton

06-26-2018, 10:01 AM

How much of an increase?

I prefer this information to remain classified. Mystery speed for mystery ships.

https://youtu.be/qAnGe40-o9Q

Steve Melton

06-29-2018, 01:31 PM

fuel vent cover

it's amazing how much time you can spend until you're satisfied with a design. this little part and to be able to print well. squeeze the upper front to release and pull off for Winter flying to prevent chance for icing.

I think they have something in common.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zps2eis4itc.png

wassup!

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/wasp_zpsygjsttly.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsnwjd81fs.png

az_gila

06-29-2018, 02:20 PM

Changing the subject a bit...

An idea for a new product that we all want/need :)

How about either a flush mount for Stein's panel indicator lights -

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-plWF3SIL32g/TYhYRypxnoI/AAAAAAAAAEY/at-XT5LbHTc/s400/annunpanel.JPG

Or a self contained LED indicator unit with a larger text area that uses inserts cut from two layers of 1/16 plexi - one clear and the other colored translucent with a legend film sandwiched in between?

The snap on bezel could made made to cover up any rough cut plexi edges.

Credit to Bob Mills for the metal DIY version pictured above.

Steve Melton

06-29-2018, 06:32 PM

hey, what's more important than a bug blade? :)

OK, maybe an annunciator panel. I'll work up a couple variations.

thx for the tip

***************

Changing the subject a bit...

An idea for a new product that we all want/need :)

How about either a flush mount for Stein's panel indicator lights -

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-plWF3SIL32g/TYhYRypxnoI/AAAAAAAAAEY/at-XT5LbHTc/s400/annunpanel.JPG

Or a self contained LED indicator unit with a larger text area that uses inserts cut from two layers of 1/16 plexi - one clear and the other colored translucent with a legend film sandwiched in between?

The snap on bezel could made made to cover up any rough cut plexi edges.

Credit to Bob Mills for the metal DIY version pictured above.

Steve Melton

07-01-2018, 08:16 AM

planning for these styles:

flush mount strip
flush mount square
face mount strip
face mount square

planning to use the 12mm lights. simple and inexpensive.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/light_zpsrif8edcs.png

Question1: should an option be added to include the dim/test/off switch in the panel or leave it separate?

Question2: are 4, 6 and 8 light options the best configs?

Question3: should it include an integral water shield over the top to protect backside terminals?

Question4: we could pre-wire these to a local dsub or DTM connector for easy removal. would that be a benefit or not?

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/annunpanel_zps4xrc8xcb.jpg

some examples I found:
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/example%20annunciator%20panel_zpsv1kwbrpk.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_6516_zps8ckjtttc.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/example%20annunciator%20panel%202_zpsogh7lcvq.png

az_gila

07-01-2018, 09:42 AM

Perhaps you could go one size larger and get a push button option?

https://www.amazon.com/Baomain-Button-Switch-Momentary-Rectangular/dp/B01N6FZXPM/ref=sr_1_4?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1530459319&sr=1-4&keywords=rectangular

http://hobbycomponents.com/1584-thickbox_default/non-latching-rectangle-push-button-switch-dc-12v-red.jpg

They would basically still be used as indicators only, but the push button contact could take care of a "press to test" function.

Seem to be the next size up, designed for a 16 mm hole instead of a 12 mm hole.

Steve Melton

07-01-2018, 02:52 PM

I like it. 16mm so we have a chance to see it and can make some larger text. push light to test switch is a better option. eliminates a switch.

Steve Melton

07-01-2018, 03:11 PM

is an RV9 wing thicker than an RV7?

RV7

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2858_zpsnammsekb.jpg

RV9

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2862_zpss5je3dqv.jpg

they are same thickness

az_gila

07-01-2018, 03:43 PM

Just my answers... :)

Question1: should an option be added to include the dim/test/off switch in the panel or leave it separate?

See previous indicator/switch option

Question2: are 4, 6 and 8 light options the best configs?

Not sure which would be the most popular. I sort of like 4 and 6, but in two row versions. I'm sure lots of options would be requested. :)

Question3: should it include an integral water shield over the top to protect backside terminals?

How about no, but add some plastic hubs that could be used for self tap screws? These hubs could hold a metal shield in place over the top of the indicator bank if needed.

Question4: we could pre-wire these to a local dsub or DTM connector for easy removal. would that be a benefit or not?

I would think users would generally have different wire configurations.

BUT - if going for a more custom DIY colored plastic approach...

The LED leads and spacing could be sized to fit a cut piece of Vero strip board board it might help all users.

https://veroboard.com/shop/veroboard/by-size/veroboard-size-4x10/phenolic-prototyping-tinrohs-hasl-stripboard-4x10/

The vero strip could also be used to hold standard 5mm LEDs into place inserted from the rear of the assembly.

Steve Melton

07-01-2018, 06:28 PM

I have the bug blade installed and it works well as I have normal fuel pressure but it could be better. What if a child was crawling under my plane and saw those and began twisting on them? The contact point would be on the edge of the thin rail. Well, that's no good. I added a flat to the contact area to prevent that. Now the rails are protected against twisting. All my force could not damage them.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsqqzphqji.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpsxhpsuiku.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zpsmhiwf5nb.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2916_zpsxwvgbkbl.jpg

Steve Melton

07-01-2018, 07:00 PM

I usually fly about 150 hrs per year these days. I knocked the dust off these and took some photos.

Fuel drain fairing installed 1.5 yrs ago. Nice and tight.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2882_zpsozj1xecy.jpg

Clip on tie down fairing. 7 months ago. this one I take on and off when needed.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2886_zpsp85geqhh.jpg

Rudder clevis fairing. 5 month ago.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2905_zpscssaebgl.jpg

Flap bracket fairings. 9 months ago. to go faster.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2896_zpswgsipjvy.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2876_zpsqos8i4oh.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2902_zpsuuscdek4.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2887_zpstzn6hsq4.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2892_zpseclmogjx.jpg

Steve Melton

07-02-2018, 05:42 AM

thx for the feedback.

will plan for some plastic screw hubs and an optional plastic drip shield shield.

will plan for a couple row options

will not plan to wire

I don't know about the vero strip but willing to learn how this could be beneficial

Steve

Just my answers... :)

Question1: should an option be added to include the dim/test/off switch in the panel or leave it separate?

See previous indicator/switch option

Question2: are 4, 6 and 8 light options the best configs?

Not sure which would be the most popular. I sort of like 4 and 6, but in two row versions. I'm sure lots of options would be requested. :)

Question3: should it include an integral water shield over the top to protect backside terminals?

How about no, but add some plastic hubs that could be used for self tap screws? These hubs could hold a metal shield in place over the top of the indicator bank if needed.

Question4: we could pre-wire these to a local dsub or DTM connector for easy removal. would that be a benefit or not?

I would think users would generally have different wire configurations.

BUT - if going for a more custom DIY colored plastic approach...

The LED leads and spacing could be sized to fit a cut piece of Vero strip board board it might help all users.

https://veroboard.com/shop/veroboard/by-size/veroboard-size-4x10/phenolic-prototyping-tinrohs-hasl-stripboard-4x10/

The vero strip could also be used to hold standard 5mm LEDs into place inserted from the rear of the assembly.

cajunwings

07-02-2018, 07:53 AM

Another great idea Steve. I?m in for a horizontal 6 light recessed strip when you get into production. Anybody have a bright/dim circuit diagram for LEDs.

Don Broussard
RV9 Rebuild in Progress
57 Pacer

az_gila

07-02-2018, 09:20 AM

thx for the feedback.

will plan for some plastic screw hubs and an optional plastic drip shield shield.

will plan for a couple row options

will not plan to wire

I don't know about the vero strip but willing to learn how this could be beneficial

Steve

It was connected to the 'full DIY' vs 'buy indicators' option I started with.

The vero strip would only be for a completely DIY panel with no purchased parts. I think the buy the indicators/switches is a better/easier option for most. :)

MORE

If you recess them (it would look nicer) please leave a small lip on the front side of the panel. This way any slight cutting errors of the required square panel hole could be covered up.

Steve Melton

07-02-2018, 09:36 AM

If you recess them (it would look nicer) please leave a small lip on the front side of the panel. This way any slight cutting errors of the required square panel hole could be covered up.

I think I can do that.... maybe.

az_gila

07-02-2018, 04:59 PM

I think I can do that.... maybe.

Maybe like this example we have already posted -

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/annunpanel_zps4xrc8xcb.jpg

But front mounted with a black #6 screw at each end perhaps?

Paul from Flyleds

07-02-2018, 05:34 PM

The LED leads and spacing could be sized to fit a cut piece of Vero strip board board it might help all users.

The vero strip could also be used to hold standard 5mm LEDs into place inserted from the rear of the assembly.

What would the 5mm LEDs be for Gil?

Happy to design and make a circuit board for Amanda to sell with this future kit...

Steve Melton

07-02-2018, 05:53 PM

Maybe like this example we have already posted -

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/annunpanel_zps4xrc8xcb.jpg

But front mounted with a black #6 screw at each end perhaps?

agreed, needs to be front mounted to cover cut edges.

what else could you do with switch annunciators?

1. push to test light function for all
2. dimming
3.

az_gila

07-02-2018, 11:10 PM

What would the 5mm LEDs be for Gil?

Happy to design and make a circuit board for Amanda to sell with this future kit...

Check post #590 a couple back.

It was for a complete DIY option that didn't include buying the switch/indicators.

Not needed if everyone like the size of the larger indicators. Many versions around, but they are 24 mm x 18 mm overall size - the 16 mm reference is for the mounting hole size - essentially 5/8 inch.

Steve Melton

07-03-2018, 06:23 AM

I thought I would post this because it's cool to see that the first flex frequency mode of the bugblade rails is 9000 Hz. that's pretty stiff. E = 290ksi, Poisson's ratio = .39, density = .037 lb/in3. way above any driving frequencies.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/freq%20cap_zpsvmitn8fd.png

Steve Melton

07-03-2018, 10:59 AM

I just couldn't believe 9000 Hz for the bug blade rail frequency. It seemed abnormally high. I refined the model by adding more elements, mid-side nodes, and adjusting the boundary conditions to the least conservative regions. the natural frequencies reduced but are still above any driving frequencies. the max driving frequencies would be a 3/rev from the prop ( a two bladed prop would be 2/rev). 2700 rpm / 60 = 45 Hz, then times 3 = 135 Hz.

Max driving freq from the prop = 135 Hz.

Bug Blade response freq:
Mode 1 = 5580 Hz
Mode 2 = 6970 Hz
Mode 3 = 7360 Hz
Mode 4 = 7590 Hz

clear of any driving frequencies

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/freq1_zpsgjvdsexb.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/freq2_zps0q42sgul.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/freq3_zpshdethvoa.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/freq4_zpsgmxgjsft.png

StressedOut

07-03-2018, 01:09 PM

Steve Melton

07-03-2018, 06:11 PM

Very cool Steve. I loved doing modal analysis when I was doing composite pressure vessel design and analysis. I could get test results to correlate to within 1% of the modal analysis for at least the 1st mode.

I found the biggest issue in getting accurate results was the boundary conditions. A minor tweak to them could and usually did result in large changes in the predicted modes.

Just out of curiosity, what is your modal mass fraction for the first mode? Can you get this information from that program?

I cannot get this directly but I could calculate form the mass matrix with some work. The good thing is that the freq response is orders of magnitude above the driving frequency.

Easy to remove for winter flying.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180703_162145_zpsbxvi6nyr.jpg

Mike S

07-03-2018, 06:29 PM

the first flex frequency mode of the bugblade rails is 9000 Hz. that's pretty stiff. E = 290ksi, Poisson's ratio = .39, density = .037 lb/in3. way above any driving frequencies.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/freq%20cap_zpsvmitn8fd.png

No idea what the technobabble means, but it sure looks like some kind of incontinence control undergarment:eek:

Could that be right???? Depends.......

Steve Melton

07-03-2018, 06:34 PM

No idea what the technobabble means, but it sure looks like some kind of incontinence control undergarment:eek:

Could that be right???? Depends.......

as long as it keeps the bugs out of my shorts..... you can call it anything.

az_gila

07-05-2018, 11:13 AM

Maybe like this example we have already posted -

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/annunpanel_zps4xrc8xcb.jpg

But front mounted with a black #6 screw at each end perhaps?

Steve - I found (err.. stole) this posted by a -7 builder -

http://halie.com/obV.png

Could be the behind panel portion with the mounting holes, and a second 'in front of the panel' part could provide the hole edge cover up and a rearward spacing of the indicators to make them nearly flush.

Steve Melton

07-05-2018, 03:51 PM

az_gila

07-05-2018, 04:34 PM

Gil, we are thinking the same. a second cover shield for the backside mounted version. I had found that photo and saved it away. I have both 12 mm and 16 mm lights on the way but the 16 mm take awhile to arrive. the 12 mm lights are inexpensive, $1.50 each, same version as Stein. Steve

Interestingly Amazon seems better than Ebay in this case.

$10 and 2 day Prime shipping doesn't seem bad for 5 units...:)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B01N7HCJ7S/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new

These look like a better quality part with a changeable LED - get a brighter one perhaps? Quick shipping and still only $6 each -

https://www.amazon.com/Omron-M165-JR-12D-Cylindrical-Oil-Resistant-Rectangular/dp/B0068TWOG0/

Unlike a lot of cheap Chinese parts they actually have a data sheet. :)

https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/307/m16_ds_e_7_2_csm605-805961.pdf

Steve Melton

07-05-2018, 04:38 PM

these are all the same. agreed, also inexpensive. I think I clicked the cheapest but takes a long time to deliver.

az_gila

07-05-2018, 05:13 PM

these are all the same. agreed, also inexpensive. I think I clicked the cheapest but takes a long time to deliver.

Yes... I always try and avoid the stuff shipped directly from China. :D

But $2 each for 5 and 2 day Amazon Prime is almost as cheap as the Chinese stuff.

Snowflake

07-06-2018, 07:56 AM

Steve - I found (err.. stole) this posted by a -7 builder

http://halie.com/obV.png

Could be the behind panel portion with the mounting holes, and a second 'in front of the panel' part could provide the hole edge cover up and a rearward spacing of the indicators to make them nearly flush.
Gil, I can see a gap around the edge of that holder. It looks to me like it was inserted from the back, through a nicely-finished hole. If you want something inserted from the front that can cover the hole edge, you'll need a two-piece arrangement like Steve suggested, or a wider flange on each end that the screw could go through to a nut behind the panel.

Steve Melton

07-06-2018, 07:43 PM

an unexpected result from flights with the BugBlade installed is that I am experiencing 1-2 psi higher fuel pressures. my instrumentation is crude as I have an old I-K technologies that measures fuel pressure is 2 psi increments. I would like a couple of second experiments. if you want to run a test I will be happy to send a couple folks one of these to test if you report the results.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpstleue026.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180703_162145_zpsbxvi6nyr.jpg

Steve Melton

07-07-2018, 07:21 AM

starting to kick these around

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/front%20mount%205_zps9komom1f.png

az_gila

07-07-2018, 09:34 AM

starting to kick these around

......

Looks good, but are those square indicators/switches rather than the 24 x 18 mm rectangular ones?

Just me, but I like the square look on the corners, seems to fit in with the rectangular faces. :)

Steve Melton

07-07-2018, 10:23 PM

12mm lights

working out the print method (trying a couple approaches) and the best datum surfaces for a good fit. I don't like this datum structure but that's part of the process.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2926_zpsan6xqsdr.jpg

I prefer the print method for the panel with "red" lights. Allows a more uniform surface across the light front side. So, that is decided.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2930_zpsydgaffin.jpg

my basic steps:
1. Goals
2. Concept Design - be creative and do simple analysis, get input from others if you can, seek out the experts
3. Manufacturing method defined - in this case it is simply "what is the best orientation to print"
4. Preliminary Design - set datums and parametric definition
5. Detail Design - refine both design and analysis

currently, this project is on steps 2 and 3

Steve Melton

07-08-2018, 06:16 AM

I'm just kicking this around at the moment. square shape at the panel ends could be an option. these are the stein size lights, 12mm bore. I'll include the 16 mm bore version when they arrive.

for these 12 mm lights, I'm thinking of an optional test switch location could be a nice addition.

Looks good, but are those square indicators/switches rather than the 24 x 18 mm rectangular ones?

Just me, but I like the square look on the corners, seems to fit in with the rectangular faces. :)

blueflyer

07-08-2018, 06:57 AM

I like these light holders. Hopefully, you decide to list them on your website for sale! :D

Steve Melton

07-08-2018, 07:31 AM

I like these light holders. Hopefully, you decide to list them on your website for sale! :D

based on the print time and Amanda's cost structure, these should be about $10 for the housing and about $28 for the assembly with lights. the assembly is light weight.

and another good thing is coming. Amanda is learning to drive and soon I will not have to drive her to the post office!

az_gila

07-08-2018, 10:07 AM

.....
for these 12 mm lights, I'm thinking of an optional test switch location could be a nice addition.

No need for anything special for a "Press to Test" switch.

The physical size of switches vs indicators are identical. So it really just becomes a labeling feature - mark the part on the right hand end of the row -

PRESS
TO TEST

If you buy the latching version of the switch, items could be switched on and off - one example labeling could be -

FUEL PUMP
ON/OFF

If you buy the Omron parts the switches are rated at 3 Amps/30 V resistive load. The Chines parts just seem to give a 5A/240VAC switch rating with no DC rating.

None of the above choices would affect the design of the mount.

Here is a Chinese latching version of Steins indicators -

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ELEWIND-12mm-Rectangular-illuminated-momentary-push-button-switch-PB121J-11-Y-12V/32621442720.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.125.21e9365 bDw7jqF&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10 151_10065_10344_10130_10068_10324_10547_10342_1032 5_10546_10343_10340_10548_10341_10545_10696_10084_ 10083_10618_10307_10059_100031_524_10103_10624_106 23_10622_10621_10620,searchweb201603_30,ppcSwitch_ 5&algo_expid=1b167894-c5e1-452d-8262-55f8f95f4e23-18&algo_pvid=1b167894-c5e1-452d-8262-55f8f95f4e23&priceBeautifyAB=0

My present thought for my panel would be to make them all switches and use them as simple indicators. :)

ADDED

For the earlier comments about water intrusion -

The $30 Omron versions from Mouser are IP65 rated, dust proof and -

"Water projected by a nozzle (6.3mm) from any direction shall have no harmful effects."

That is for the larger 16 mm versions - rated for 5A/30VDC on their switches.

Steve Melton

07-08-2018, 08:08 PM

planning to add a integral test switch option for these stein type lights. this turned out to be a relatively simple job. folks with a printer should be able to design and make these. I print these with the backside downwards.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2935_zpsxxf9ua8e.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2933_zpsjehhkrf1.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2936_zps6xcgcki5.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsienvf39p.png

Steve Melton

07-08-2018, 08:45 PM

a thin line version. same screw spacing. .1 inch face offset vs .2 inch offset above.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpssn7wee8a.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zps9ufmju3y.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2938_zpsmouzce0c.jpg

Steve Melton

07-10-2018, 04:18 AM

I'll make a backside clip for this to have a clean face. this may be OK for a tip-up with easy access.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsvoofokik.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpszgnezqv4.png

BHunt

07-10-2018, 06:34 AM

I prefer this information to remain classified. Mystery speed for mystery ships.

For testing purposes or indefinitely?

Chkaharyer99

07-10-2018, 08:36 AM

Steve,

I?ve been following this thread and appreciate your talent.

I think there might be a market for an oil cooler plenum to accommodate those who remote mount oil coolers. An alternative to the aluminum interface which seem more common. Something that would optimize airflow.

I?ve done some research and have found that composite plenum are available for the bigger oil cooler like the Airflow 2006X and larger. But the market is absent options for composite plenum for the smaller 7 row and 10 row oil coolers.

I?m not sure if the material used is heat resistant enough for this application. If not, maybe the printed version could be used as a mold.

Thanks for sharing your vision. It?s interesting to see what can be done.

Steve Melton

07-10-2018, 09:54 AM

thx for the compliment. these are simple models and really having a project makes you learn the software. that's why I try to have projects.

ABS is cannot withstand the temperatures under the cowl. I've been wanting to do some ducts. send me a sketch with some dimensions and I'll make a mold.

Steve,

I?ve been following this thread and appreciate your talent.

I think there might be a market for an oil cooler plenum to accommodate those who remote mount oil coolers. An alternative to the aluminum interface which seem more common. Something that would optimize airflow.

I?ve done some research and have found that composite plenum are available for the bigger oil cooler like the Airflow 2006X and larger. But the market is absent options for composite plenum for the smaller 7 row and 10 row oil coolers.

I?m not sure if the material used is heat resistant enough for this application. If not, maybe the printed version could be used as a mold.

Thanks for sharing your vision. It?s interesting to see what can be done.

Steve Melton

07-10-2018, 09:58 AM

For testing purposes or indefinitely?

flap bracket fairings, it will always be a mystery because I don't plan to take them off and do the required testing to accurately determine the exact speed increase. all I can tell you is my airspeed indicator says I'm faster with them.

A blurry video:

https://youtu.be/qAnGe40-o9Q

Chkaharyer99

07-10-2018, 09:47 PM

Steve Melton

07-11-2018, 02:41 AM

preheat duct. this one operates at about 180F if I remember correctly. fiberglass reinforced at the connection point. internal wire spring. it has been thru a couple winters use and is in original condition. no delamination of the fiberglass. scuffed with 80 grit before bonding. I'm happy with it.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN1195_zps8vzh8qan.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN1186_zpsfkwl2nil.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN1184_zpsubjotv0x.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN1183_zpseqiu1jwx.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20170213_195331_zpscmcuwpxs.jpg

pull on the lower wire to release it. does not scratch paint.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN1164_zpsv1y3b5dw.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN1169_zpshoiz3ll4.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN1171_zpsxcq4vmto.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN1172_zpsqqe2jh74.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN1177_zpsithlrbbu.jpg

Steve Melton

07-11-2018, 05:47 PM

give me some feedback for orientation. need to modify the base for flanges and improve the sweep.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsy3aurpte.png

rv7charlie

07-11-2018, 06:04 PM

Looks like many commercially available products, and what most people do when they make one. But, while I'm no authority, all the reading I've done while preparing for my alt engine project indicates that the shape depicted will result in all the air flowing through the left side of the core. The sharp curve to the right can be expected to go turbulent at the 'corner', resulting in little flow through that side of the core.

There may be more current research, but in Aerodynamics of Propulsion (Kucheman and Webber) the most efficient shape for a short diffuser approximates the mouth of a trumpet, with the edge touching the side of the core being an acute angle.

If you think about it, we're trying to achieve the same kind of things that musical instruments are trying to achieve: efficient 'coupling', or impedance matching of source to load. There's a very good reason that musical horns (and horn shaped loudspeakers) are shaped the way they are.

Charlie

Steve Melton

07-11-2018, 07:37 PM

this could be better. need a different shape.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zps0lyyl7jv.png

Chkaharyer99

07-11-2018, 07:39 PM

give me some feedback for orientation. need to modify the base for flanges and improve the sweep.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsy3aurpte.png

You do great work! Fast too! I saw your PM. Agreed.

I sent you an email with modifications.

Thanks again.

Steve Melton

07-11-2018, 08:02 PM

if I printed a guide vane inside, could a layup be made. how would you do that?

no use installing a fancy external oil cooler if you can't achieve it's full capability

Chkaharyer99

07-11-2018, 08:12 PM

if I printed a guide vane inside, could a layup be made. how would you do that?

Probably not if the fiberglass layup was done on the inside of the 3D plug. On a one piece unit, the vane would trap the fiberglass layup making release of the layup very difficult.

Maybe the layup should be done on the outside and the vane be installed as a secondary process?

Thoughts?

Steve Melton

07-11-2018, 08:16 PM

ABS may be able to survive on the firewall if it was trapped by fiberglass.

rv7charlie

07-11-2018, 08:27 PM

Steve Melton

07-11-2018, 08:34 PM

Try moving the start of the flair farther downstream, so the max area isn't achieved until it touches the face of the core. Also, 'invert' the transitions from round to square in the corners. Then re-run the analysis.

Then for grins, move the round section so it's centered on the face, with symetrical flairs to the edges, and re-run.

Charlie

thx for the help on this. Charlie wants the inlet shifted to pilot's side to clear a cable and maybe space limited vertically so I'm trying to make it compact. I plan to recontour and add an internal vane.

rv7charlie

07-11-2018, 08:43 PM

Sorry; my posts are purely about diffuser efficiency. The requesters may have specific needs when it comes to duct positioning.

If installation needs allow it, and you try the shape changes, you *might* not need the turning vane.

edit: duh; two Charlies; missed that it was another Charlie that requested the design

Steve Melton

07-11-2018, 08:50 PM

Sorry; my posts are purely about diffuser efficiency. The requesters may have specific needs when it comes to duct positioning.

If installation needs allow it, and you try the shape changes, you *might* not need the turning vane.

appreciate the help, really. BTW the area ratio on this = 2. if we had the room we could make an efficient diffuser.

rv7charlie

07-11-2018, 09:17 PM

If you're talking inlet/core area ratio, the K&W ratios go beyond 3-1 with fairly short duct length. The example in the book has a rectangular inlet the same width as the core, with a flair on only one side. Very similar to the offset inlet in your drawing.

I initially found the info on shapes somewhat counter-intuitive, but there was test data demonstrating the efficiency.

Steve, check your PMs in a few minutes for more info.

Charlie

Zuldarin

07-12-2018, 07:14 AM

ABS may be able to survive on the firewall if it was trapped by fiberglass.

Just a data point for you Steve. I printed up an ABS oil cooler inlet shroud for my firewall mounted oil cooler last year. I flew it all summer including to Oshkosh and it had zero degradation that I could detect. On the flip side I also printed up an outlet duct and the radiant heat from the exhaust caused a slight bit of warping on that one so I removed it. Neither of these were reinforced by fiberglass at the time. The inlet duct is protected from exhaust radiant heat so the only heat I had to worry about was the ambient temps under the cowl and the temperature of the oil cooler itself. Neither of those were high enough to cause the plastic to soften.

This year when I replace my oil cooler I printed up a new inlet duct and put a couple of layers of carbon fiber over the duct for added security.

Chkaharyer99

07-12-2018, 07:37 AM

Just a data point for you Steve. I printed up an ABS oil cooler inlet shroud for my firewall mounted oil cooler last year. I flew it all summer including to Oshkosh and it had zero degradation that I could detect. On the flip side I also printed up an outlet duct and the radiant heat from the exhaust caused a slight bit of warping on that one so I removed it. Neither of these were reinforced by fiberglass at the time. The inlet duct is protected from exhaust radiant heat so the only heat I had to worry about was the ambient temps under the cowl and the temperature of the oil cooler itself. Neither of those were high enough to cause the plastic to soften.

This year when I replace my oil cooler I printed up a new inlet duct and put a couple of layers of carbon fiber over the duct for added security.

Darin,

Will you put the carbon fiber on the inside or outside or both inside and outside.

Zuldarin

07-12-2018, 08:24 AM

Darin,

Will you put the carbon fiber on the inside or outside or both inside and outside.

I wrapped it on the outside. Its only there for structural support. I also inserted a 1" metal ring at the top so the hose clamp that holds the air ducting in place doesn't compress the glass/plastic if it gets too warm.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AHBQICZwN4k/WxqElr6yfTI/AAAAAAAAGCk/eRE2uR-EaS8mE7iDyWIrxPk0L2MvGb6twCLcBGAs/s640/20180608_002327621_iOS.jpg

Chkaharyer99

07-12-2018, 12:06 PM

I wrapped it on the outside. Its only there for structural support. I also inserted a 1" metal ring at the top so the hose clamp that holds the air ducting in place doesn't compress the glass/plastic if it gets too warm.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AHBQICZwN4k/WxqElr6yfTI/AAAAAAAAGCk/eRE2uR-EaS8mE7iDyWIrxPk0L2MvGb6twCLcBGAs/s640/20180608_002327621_iOS.jpg

Thank you. I was going to ask more questions but looked here ( www.darinanderson.com ) and saw your process. Nice work. Thanks again.

Steve Melton

07-12-2018, 04:36 PM

a short vane inside has better distribution. should not be too difficult to construct.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpsughuhfg1.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zpsvivshacp.png

no vane version, same mass flow

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zps0lyyl7jv.png

Chkaharyer99

07-12-2018, 06:07 PM

Steve Melton

07-12-2018, 07:50 PM

I hit the button before I went to the airport tonight.

1/2 scale

and BTW, these always need a bulb at the hose connection end or they WILL become loose. I'll add that feature. this is now planned to be an internal layup first. then bond the internal vane secondly. seems that we are getting a plan together.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2939_zpsaifglfw8.jpg

Paragon

07-13-2018, 11:07 AM

Steve Melton

07-13-2018, 02:51 PM

Steve,

I would not put too much effort into designing internal vanes and such, unless you are prepared to very carefully design a lot of them.

Your transition is so abrupt, I doubt you can fill the exit plane with a solid, unseparated flowfield. More likely, with a vane, you will move the separated areas around.

Several things to note:
1. The inlet will have a Pt (or Velocity) profile, the details of which depend on upstream duct shape, inlet conditions, etc. This profile would affect the results substantially.
2. If there is a heat exchanger at the exit plane, that represents a flow restriction that will be felt upstream, so the results of a CFD analysis could be affected by it's presence or lack thereof.

In order to obtain an unseparated profile at the exit of this transition, you would probably need a very carefully designed array of vanes in both directions, like a thrust reverser cascade in concept. Even there, if not well designed, taking into account the inlet profile, the result could be worse than no vanes at all.

I personally would leave out the vane.

Just my $0.02 worth.

-Paragon (CFD Guy)
Cincinnati, OH

I am not a CFD expert. I don't want an array of vanes. I am attempting to spread the flow and minimize the dead zone at the abrupt transition. the transition is to clear a prop cable, so it is needed. HX is mounted long side against the firewall, so a guide vane perpendicular to that direction should help even if the air profile is skewed to the backside of the inlet area.

Airflow Systems also uses a guide vane. they have experience with these.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Airflow%20systems%20splitter_zpsahs9p15s.png

Steve Melton

07-13-2018, 08:27 PM

well, we will see if this works. outside mark lines are vane location option. when complete, cut mold off and throw it in the trash.

3 inch scat tube version

duct mold

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/3%20duct%20mold_zps3uplcrxc.png

vane mold

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/vane%20mold_zpsfne2cvzt.png

4 inch scat tube version

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/4%20duct%20mold_zpsidzns6zr.png

4 inch scat tube version flow. I like it.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/flow_zpsvshqw3dy.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/flow2_zpsqmxz9d4l.png

Steve Melton

07-14-2018, 05:21 AM

3 inch duct first print. looks good.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2943_zps9lsz3gx3.jpg

Chkaharyer99

07-14-2018, 09:23 AM

Steve,

I see you added an exterior bump hump just below the inlet. On the inside there is a groove.

Pretty cleaver. I think I understand your thinking with that addition. Correct me if I?m wrong.

When the inside of the plenum gets taped off the groove gets taped over to prevent it from being filled with fiberglass Resin. After taping the interior a suitable fiberglass resin release agent gets applied over the tape followed by fiberglass layups. After the process cures, the hump/bump can be cut but only deeply enough to slice through the 3D printer plug but not the fiberglass beneath it. The inlet portion can then be removed exposing an appropriately sized OD inlet for the selected inlet tube (scat/sceet/other) to be attached.

A metal band could even be added to the inside prior to the fiberglass lay up to strengthen the inlet and prevent distortion or crushing when a the inlet tube clamp is applied and tightened.

With fiberglass on the interior, the remaining 3D plug can remain or be removed.

Was this what you were thinking with the hump/bump and groove?

Snowflake

07-14-2018, 09:51 AM

I would not put too much effort into designing internal vanes and such, unless you are prepared to very carefully design a lot of them.
I think the important thing to note here is that Steve isn't going for a "perfect" solution, which I agree would require a lot more vanes and a lot more CFD analysis to get it "right". He's going for a "best solution that can be achieved with reasonable effort," and I think he's getting pretty close.

Even Steve's basic transition shape without the vane would be better than many of the folded aluminium ones, as at least Steve's shape has rounded transitions which will carry the air further before separation occurs. Adding a single vane will help distribute more of that air across more of the cooler, and is definitely an improvement, so the effort is probably worth it. A side benefit is that it provides additional structural rigidity, which probably isn't a bad idea either.

A perfect solution probably exists, but you'd need to 3D print the final part using a high-temperature stable plastic, possibly one of the heat-treatable ABS plastics or something even more exotic.

Steve Melton

07-14-2018, 11:35 AM

I think the important thing to note here is that Steve isn't going for a "perfect" solution, which I agree would require a lot more vanes and a lot more CFD analysis to get it "right". He's going for a "best solution that can be achieved with reasonable effort," and I think he's getting pretty close.

Even Steve's basic transition shape without the vane would be better than many of the folded aluminium ones, as at least Steve's shape has rounded transitions which will carry the air further before separation occurs. Adding a single vane will help distribute more of that air across more of the cooler, and is definitely an improvement, so the effort is probably worth it. A side benefit is that it provides additional structural rigidity, which probably isn't a bad idea either.

A perfect solution probably exists, but you'd need to 3D print the final part using a high-temperature stable plastic, possibly one of the heat-treatable ABS plastics or something even more exotic.

my thoughts:

1. no metal band needed. add an extra ply of material if needed. maybe just layup the groove firstly with small plies to make flush.

2. layup the interior with 3 to 4 plies of material

3. layup all surfaces, push material into groove. maybe use some wax paper and foam or something at the groove to hold in place.

4. after cure, remove ABS plastic. may destroy to the mold but that's OK.

you may work out other ideas once you get into it.

there may be others with more experience with fiberglass layups that could add better directions.

Chkaharyer99

07-14-2018, 12:19 PM

Steve,

1. Agreed.

2. Copy. Would you use 6 ounce cloth or something else? I have West Systems Epoxy.

3. Copy.

4. Agreed.

Thank you,

Steve Melton

07-14-2018, 01:36 PM

added reinforcement to the thin bottom edge to keep it straight.

makes me wonder about adding a split line flange to separate these in halves but that is for a future time.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/4%20inch%20duct%20mold_zpsoloi0pc1.png

hendrik

07-15-2018, 02:56 AM

I haven't followed the whole discussion, but if removing the mold is a concern: what about printing PVA instead of ABS? It's water-soluble, so you can make your fiberglass layup, let it cure, and put it in a bucket of water over night.

Paragon

07-15-2018, 06:18 AM

A little follow-up on the vane discussion, I should have described the following:

If we look at the first CFD with no vanes, we might say, "the bottom 20% of the heat exchanger has no flow!". The CFD was completed with no heat exchanger blockage modeled.

However, the heat exchanger is a high blockage item. The blockage, if you think of it as (Aeffective/Atotal), is likely in the range of 40-60%. When the flow stagnates on the leading edges of the plates and fins, it will have higher pressure in the center of your profile, and lower pressure near the edges - this will cause the flow to migrate towards the edges.

Also, the heat exchanger core is almost like a thick block of the honeycomb material that is used as a flow straightener/flow conditioner in wind tunnels and in aero test rigs. The pressure loss in the long thru passages goes roughly as V^2, so if the flow in one area is 130% of the average, it's total pressure loss will be more like 170% higher than average - the end result is that the device blockage tends to drive the flow distribution towards more uniformity than whatever the inlet profile may indicate.

Finally, when we look at the heat transfer performance - in areas where the flow is higher than average, there is higher heat transfer. In areas where the flow is lower than average, there is lower heat transfer. (It goes a bit less than linear with velocity.) The net result is that even though we may have a distorted flow distribution upstream of the H/X, the actual heat transfer performance may only vary from the ideal uniform flow case by a rather small percentage.

It would be a reasonable bet that during flight tests, if one could replicate conditions exactly, it would be hard to measure the difference between the vaned configuration and the vaneless one.

Again, just my $0.02 worth - it may save the trouble of trying to manufacture a vane in there...

-Paragon
Cincinnati, OH

Steve Melton

07-15-2018, 06:56 AM

wise words. the vane is an option for these. making both a 3 and 4 inch version. if your words are true, Charlie may be able to get by with the 3 inch scat tube version.

making the 3 inch version

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2951_zpss1ojz4t1.jpg

walter

07-15-2018, 07:50 AM

How will these attach to the oil cooler? On my home made duct I made flanges on two sides to bolt directly to the cooler. The flanges are sandwiched between a short section of angle and the oil cooler.

http://tondu.com/rv8a/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/image-124-700x525.jpeg

Steve Melton

07-15-2018, 08:17 AM

that's artwork. any trouble with the scat becoming loose?

I need to refine my lofting techniques. that's my next learning with SW.

angle one the side.

https://www.airflow-systems.com/wp-content/uploads/1-Aircraft-Parts-OilCooler-Duct-300x190.jpg

3 inch version. now printing the 4 inch. this project is done.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2953_zps1t3o6daz.jpg

walter

07-15-2018, 08:29 AM

Don't know if it will come off or not as I haven't flown yet.

rocketbob

07-15-2018, 08:58 AM

I've had good luck printing with Proto Pasta High Temperature Polycarbonate-ABS Alloy.

Suggest laying up a layer of fiberglass inside for insurance.

dtw_rv6

07-15-2018, 09:27 AM

+1 for polycarbonate filament in areas like the engine compartment.

I've had luck with Polymaker PC Max - It is a modified PC that will print around 250C. For me it prints just as easily as ABS.

Gizmodorks PC is a more "traditional" PC that I prefer to print in a heated chamber and is much more finicky than ABS or PLA. I actually made exhaust hangar brackets out of this material.

Steve Melton

07-15-2018, 05:44 PM

always keeping the plastic in a warm environment aids in printing.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2955_zpsp8geyux9.jpg

Steve Melton

07-20-2018, 04:05 PM

annunciator panel, with brackets. good fit. good option for a tip up. clean. a six banger in a very small space. ultra light weight.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2964_zpsr7mnxen7.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2963_zpsxnutuzua.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2959_zpsgcbtscpa.jpg

Steve Melton

07-21-2018, 04:13 AM

integral panel test switch version

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsnizzwgnf.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpspr17si5a.png

Snowflake

07-21-2018, 10:43 AM

Maybe a silly question, but why not just use one of the buttons as a test button? or if a different size/shape is desired for identification, then just a simple round pushbutton?

Steve Melton

07-21-2018, 11:55 AM

these 12mm lights do not have a push switch. complete assembly should be about $30.

thin version. actual switch will be slightly smaller with on/off for functional light test check.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpsnnphntju.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zpsyahhct98.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap5_zpskx0vvrmf.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap6_zpszgiv3pyk.png

az_gila

07-21-2018, 01:52 PM

these 12mm lights do not have a push switch. complete assembly should be about $30.

thin version. actual switch will be slightly smaller with on/off for functional light test check.

.....

Another reason to go to the slightly larger ones with a 16 mm hole.

Matching indicators/pushbuttons and room for bigger/more text labels. :)

Steve Melton

07-21-2018, 01:54 PM

Another reason to go to the slightly larger ones with a 16 mm hole.

Matching indicators/pushbuttons and room for bigger/more text labels. :)

printing now. I'll have a completed assembly photo later.

az_gila

07-21-2018, 02:22 PM

printing now. I'll have a completed assembly photo later.

Thanks,

I got some random Chinese ones and also a more expensive Omron one.

The branded one is a bit brighter and has an extra diffusing layer under the lens making the illumination more even across the face.

The sizes of the indicator vs switch version were identical from all sources. This includes the "protrusion dimension" forward of the panel mount location.

Some links in a earlier post - http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=1271426&postcount=604

David Paule

07-21-2018, 03:17 PM

Is there an advantage to a toggle switch as shown rather than a push button momentary switch?

Dave

Steve Melton

07-21-2018, 03:31 PM

Is there an advantage to a toggle switch as shown rather than a push button momentary switch?

Dave

option could be a push button. help me with the switch selection.

on/off - test only
on/off/on - test only off
on/off/on - test only dim

etc.

az_gila

07-21-2018, 05:09 PM

option could be a push button. help me with the switch selection.

on/off - test only
on/off/on - test only off
on/off/on - test only dim

etc.

Easiest push button would be OFF - (ON)

On is momentary only - Label says "PUSH TO TEST"

Connect with a bunch of diodes to each indicator.

Steve Melton

07-21-2018, 05:46 PM

16mm lights. needs a slight adjustment on spacing.

the amber lights do not stay recessed when pushed but the other lights do. must be a different mfg.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2965_zpsrbxmbr7n.jpg

az_gila

07-21-2018, 08:58 PM

16mm lights. needs a slight adjustment on spacing.

the amber lights do not stay recessed when pushed but the other lights do. must be a different mfg.

.....

Check the switches with a meter.

I bet you are simply seeing the difference between a latching action vs. a momentary action.

Steve Melton

07-21-2018, 10:07 PM

az_gila

07-21-2018, 10:34 PM

yeah, that's it. even says it on the label. we have a good fit.

what about a d-sub support? it will slide thru the panel slot.

orientation?

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap7_zpsix0pty7f.png

Good idea, but I think having the cabling go straight back from the panel would fit most applications better.

vlittle

07-21-2018, 11:56 PM

Maybe a silly question, but why not just use one of the buttons as a test button? or if a different size/shape is desired for identification, then just a simple round pushbutton?

Or these. http://www.galco.com/buy/IDEC/AL6H-M24P-G IDEC makes lamps in various shapes and colors with and without integrated switches. Use them in the Rocket. The master alarm lamp I use as a push to test... good for setting dimmer levels.

http://www.galco.com/images/idec/large/al6h-m24p-g_p.jpg

az_gila

07-22-2018, 12:17 AM

Or these. http://www.galco.com/buy/IDEC/AL6H-M24P-G IDEC makes lamps in various shapes and colors with and without integrated switches. Use them in the Rocket. The master alarm lamp I use as a push to test... good for setting dimmer levels.

http://www.galco.com/images/idec/large/al6h-m24p-g_p.jpg

They seem exactly the same as the Omron ones I linked to earlier. I think they must just have one mould in China... :D

https://industrial.omron.us/en/media/A16_tcm849-97086.jpg

Steve Melton

07-22-2018, 07:15 AM

4 light option, .1 inch face overlap option.

maybe someone can think of a use for the aft mounting pad for strain relief.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsz5ril6ct.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpshmo3cb0i.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpscbdkmk6h.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zpsm9g3ilt7.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2968_zpsjchpe67f.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2969_zpscjhfmpqv.jpg

Steve Melton

07-31-2018, 06:43 AM

12mm lights with a test switch. thin profile. switch type could also be a momentary push button.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2971_zpsigdq6tgw.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsrtam6qne.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpstzf6kmpr.png

Steve Melton

08-12-2018, 08:25 PM

12mm lights vertical orientation with test switch. I added a cutout guide. drill the mount holes using the guide, mark the panel cutout, cut the panel, install the guide for final check of the cut out. the panel guide is symmetrical to the annunciator panel so that it can be installed with either switch down or switch up independent of the guide orientation. incorporated the anti-rotation washer on the switch. incredibly light weight, the entire assembly shown = 29 grams.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2972_zpsuuubhdeo.jpg

panel cutout guide

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zps8hhfwdkg.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2973_zpseyyezibq.jpg

cutout guide overlapping panel has a good fit.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2974_zpsu2ifmpkn.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2975_zpsix3ccsmz.jpg

test switch anti-rotation washer feature incorporated. switch could also be a push button.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2976_zpsl7i2j1ns.jpg

Steve Melton

08-13-2018, 05:42 PM

12mm lights, vertical orientation. .2" offset overlap option for increased margin for cutting panel. 4 and 6 count shown.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpssaixa4gq.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsjiityu77.png

Steve Melton

08-15-2018, 04:54 AM

16mm lights with d-sub option

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsi1bulnbj.png

Scott Hersha

08-15-2018, 06:15 AM

How about making the toggle switch a dpdt switch so you can have a test position one way and a fixed dim the other way?

Steve Melton

08-15-2018, 10:26 AM

How about making the toggle switch a dpdt switch so you can have a test position one way and a fixed dim the other way?

that could be an option. some have preferred just a simple on/off.

ordered a couple dpdt switches. should fit the existing space fine. how would you wire that?

Scott Hersha

08-15-2018, 07:08 PM

If you are using LED lights, you have to vary the voltage (I think). I?ve used resistors before, and it worked OK, but you have to experiment with various sizes to get what level you want. Resistors are cheap, so that shouldn?t be a problem. Was easier when Radio Shack was down the street. The LEDs we are using are of such low power that the resistor needs to be relatively low impedance. I don?t have any really low level resistors on hand, but I?m willing to try a couple solutions if you?re interested. A multifunction toggle would be be a nice, professional addition to your annunciation panel. I?ve seen these lights glowing at night in a dark cockpit, and if you don?t have some mastic tape on hand it can become very distracting.

BTW - have you tried to make decals to place in the rectangular lights like you show here? Black on clear in a label maker, placed inside the light cover works great.

Steve Melton

08-15-2018, 07:16 PM

sure, Gil also mentioned something about diodes. we can sketch something. also, I was thinking of having some labels printed. Hetico did that at a print shop. all the labels on clear 8.5 x 11, chose what you want, was not expensive. need to find some artwork.

16mm momentary lights. no test switch needed for these because it's built in. one or two of these lights could be latching for dimming and off if desired. or I could add a separate toggle switch.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2978_zpse6s2nhxs.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2977_zpsonivwkgw.jpg

for those that want more panel overlap, this is the .2" overlap version

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsdn2iezfd.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpsfgyi8eun.png

az_gila

08-15-2018, 09:54 PM

...

for those that want more panel overlap, this is the .2" overlap version

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsdn2iezfd.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpsfgyi8eun.png

How do I get one of those?

That's one of my planned indicators for my -10 panel - from left to right -

Red - Master EFIS warning
Orange - Left Door Open
Orange - Right Door Open
Orange - Baggage Door Open

No switching or dimming needed, only indicators - the EFIS light can be inhibited from the screen, and I wouldn't want to even take off with any of the other three on. :)

Does PayPal work for you?

Steve Melton

08-16-2018, 04:19 AM

How do I get one of those?

That's one of my planned indicators for my -10 panel - from left to right -

Red - Master EFIS warning
Orange - Left Door Open
Orange - Right Door Open
Orange - Baggage Door Open

No switching or dimming needed, only indicators - the EFIS light can be inhibited from the screen, and I wouldn't want to even take off with any of the other three on. :)

Does PayPal work for you?

no charge, it was your idea. send me your address and I'll have Amanda ship it. I would appreciate if you would publish your wiring diagram for other to use and advise me of any improvements needed.

what color: white, grey, black?

Snowflake

08-16-2018, 07:44 AM

If you are using LED lights, you have to vary the voltage (I think). I?ve used resistors before, and it worked OK, but you have to experiment with various sizes to get what level you want.
Resistors will work, but they do generate heat... More dimming, more heat.

The best way to dim an LED is through Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) where you pulse the LED at high frequency to reduce the time the LED spends on... Your eyes see it as dimming. This does require a more involved circuit, and careful attention to filtering to prevent noise.

Steve Melton

08-18-2018, 06:31 AM

Resistors will work, but they do generate heat... More dimming, more heat.

The best way to dim an LED is through Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) where you pulse the LED at high frequency to reduce the time the LED spends on... Your eyes see it as dimming. This does require a more involved circuit, and careful attention to filtering to prevent noise.

well, if dimming is needed it seems it may be more complicated.

working on the stitching appearance on the forward face. to get a nice appearance it requires the hole thru the forward face to be printed closed and then opened from the back thru the guide hole. I think it's worth it because it looks better. cut template is added in the photo. this one is done. I'm happy with it.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2990_zpsqqmashbu.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2999_zpszvucn1ei.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2995_zpsmcrxevce.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3000_zpspgzeghdu.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3001_zpsl6zywtwk.jpg

az_gila

08-18-2018, 08:01 AM

Steve, my only change request would be for a version that is basically square with only slightly rounded corners.

This would fit in with all of the other stuff on a typical glass panel.

http://halie.com/otd.jpg

Steve Melton

08-18-2018, 09:11 AM

yes, that's a simple change and would cover the panel nut plates rivets better. the current distance from the screw hole center to the edge is .39 inch. that could be slightly smaller to reduce the overall width.

center of hole to panel edge = .39 inch
cutout clearance = .020 inch
non floating #6 nut plate width = .265/2 = .133 half width
non floating #8 nut plate width = .297/2 = .149 half width
floating nut plate #6 and #8 width = .416/2 = .208 half width

#6 hole = .144 dia /2 = .072 radius
#8 hole = .170 dia/2 = .085 radius

for #8 screw
.39 - .085 - .020 = .285 inch distance from edge of screw hole to cutout
non floating nut plate, .39 - .149 - .020 = .221 inch from the edge of the non floating nut plate to the cutout
floating nut plate, .39 - .208 - .020 = .162 inch from the edge of the floating nut plate to the cutout

I could reduce the distance of the hole to the panel by .10 inch and still have .062 clearance for a floating nut plate. So, .39 - .10 = .29 inch. That will reduce the overall width slightly. All other fastener options will have greater clearance.

your thoughts?

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsjrj6wf9w.png

Snowflake

08-18-2018, 09:23 AM

These look really good, so I offer this as constructive feedback that may improve the product! The two posts out to the panel for the DB9 connector seem to be less beefy than one might want... They'll be subjected to vibration, and they seem like long, slender beams (relative to their cross section) that might vibrate a lot. They might also be subjected to random tugging or jostling when working behind the panel. Is there any way to make them with more of an I-beam shape? I guess the screws are right where the caps of the I-beam would go, unless you can make the beam C-shaped and push the caps slightly one way and the screws the other?

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2999_zpszvucn1ei.jpg

az_gila

08-18-2018, 09:41 AM

yes, that's a simple change and would cover the panel nut plates rivets better. the current distance from the screw hole center to the edge is .39 inch. that could be slightly smaller to reduce the overall width.

......

I could reduce the distance of the hole to the panel by .10 inch and still have .062 clearance for a floating nut plate. So, .39 - .10 = .29 inch. That will reduce the overall width slightly. All other fastener options will have greater clearance.

your thoughts?

I think that is a great idea. :)

Also #6 mounting hardware would seem to be appropriate since that is what instruments and the glass panel stuff usually use.

Steve Melton

08-18-2018, 10:28 AM

I like it.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsnsbvockq.png

az_gila

08-18-2018, 10:34 AM

I like it.

...

Thanks... it now fits in with the other stuff. :)

What is the overall dimension so I can add the .jpeg to my panel layout?

Steve Melton

08-18-2018, 10:42 AM

These look really good, so I offer this as constructive feedback that may improve the product! The two posts out to the panel for the DB9 connector seem to be less beefy than one might want... They'll be subjected to vibration, and they seem like long, slender beams (relative to their cross section) that might vibrate a lot. They might also be subjected to random tugging or jostling when working behind the panel. Is there any way to make them with more of an I-beam shape? I guess the screws are right where the caps of the I-beam would go, unless you can make the beam C-shaped and push the caps slightly one way and the screws the other?

yeah, it's tight in there. .080 inch clearance to light nuts. I may be able to reduce that clearance to add some to the beam.

it's actually stronger than it looks.

cajunwings

08-18-2018, 12:22 PM

I?m ready. How can I get a 4 & 6 light model with squared off corners gray color.

Don Broussard
RV9 Rebuild in Progress
57 Pacer

az_gila

08-18-2018, 05:21 PM

Steve, as requested. Two possibilities for wiring.

Option 1 uses a dedicated PWM Dimmer unit to set the brightness levels for the warning lights.
Easy to check and set at switch on since the EMS Alert led will be on.

http://halie.com/otu.jpg

Option 2 lets you run the warning lights with the same dimmer as the panel lights.
The difference here is that the warning lights need to be on all of the time rather than switched by the "Panel Lights On" switch.

http://halie.com/otb.jpg

The dimmer should be a Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) device so it will be insensitive to the load (number of lamps/leds) on it.
Something like these should do the job -

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/singlechannelpwm.php

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/dualchannelpwm.php

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/4channeldimmer13-15799.php

Choose the number of individual dimming controls applicable to your panel. :)

Note - For my panel, I think I will use Option 2 with the warning light power line also being connected to the illuminated
logos/icons on my rocker switches so they are illuminated day and night, but still controlled by the "Panel Lights Dim" knob for night use.

Steve Melton

08-18-2018, 08:05 PM

changed to square face. increased d-sub support beams and boss. clearance on all components for removal of lights with d-sub support beams installed. I like it.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3021_zpsse8i3jve.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3014_zpsrxdbtxn0.jpg

prior to adding brass plastic nut inserts

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3013_zpsirinm1i7.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsg5bgirbz.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zps7lzqla6c.png

Steve Melton

08-18-2018, 09:00 PM

Amanda's fish tank stand she designed using CAD.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3025_zpswpzwyua1.jpg

az_gila

08-19-2018, 02:25 PM

More Options for indicator wiring.

Option #3 - If you want a "Test Switch' that is separate from the indicators -

http://halie.com/otv.jpg

Option #4 - This uses one of the indicators (must have a momentary switch) as a "Push To Test" option -

http://halie.com/ot7.jpg

In both case above the diodes keep the indicator circuits isolated during normal use.
The diodes aren't critical and the ones you use across the starter and master relays will work fine.

Steve Melton

08-19-2018, 08:14 PM

black color version. the lights were installed with the d-sub option attached. a very easy install. I like it.

how about this one Gil? send me your address and I'll have Amanda ship.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3027_zpstvjheizu.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3028_zps9xngqnyw.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3033_zpspxxzb1qi.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3034_zpsc4wscrec.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3030_zpstbaahbjy.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsa82eumem.png

Steve Melton

08-21-2018, 10:03 AM

rocketman1988

08-21-2018, 10:18 AM

Are you printing it face down?

I have a tempered glass plate on the heated bed that I print on, and the plastic adjacent to the plate is usually very smooth...

Just curious...

BMC_Dave

08-21-2018, 10:19 AM

last layer printed at 0 degree. may improve the look but it's not perfectly smooth. it's about the best I can do.

this is the low profile overlap width, 0.1".

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3038_zpsnhxiqzq1.jpg

If it's ABS you can do an acetone vapor bath for a smooth surface finish. If it hasn't been discussed already.

RV10Pilot

08-21-2018, 04:53 PM

The dimmer should be a Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) device so it will be insensitive to the load (number of lamps/leds) on it.
Something like these should do the job -

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/singlechannelpwm.php

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/dualchannelpwm.php

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/4channeldimmer13-15799.php

Choose the number of individual dimming controls applicable to your panel. :)

Note - For my panel, I think I will use Option 2 with the warning light power line also being connected to the illuminated
logos/icons on my rocker switches so they are illuminated day and night, but still controlled by the "Panel Lights Dim" knob for night use.
Here is another PWM dimmer. It is a little less expensive and could be added to the indicator panel. http://www.kicklighting.com/PWM-dimmer-switch-for-LED.htm
http://www.kicklighting.com/images/Kick-KR6-12vDC-dimmer-1000.jpg

az_gila

08-21-2018, 05:42 PM

Here is another PWM dimmer. It is a little less expensive and could be added to the indicator panel. http://www.kicklighting.com/PWM-dimmer-switch-for-LED.htm
......

That would do it, but I would like to hear that it has already been used in several airplane projects without creating any interference.

It's basis seems to be for home use -

http://www.kicklighting.com/images/PWM_Dimmer_KR6_450x300.jpg

n18pf

08-22-2018, 12:52 PM

I have been using this one in my plane and I'm very happy with it:
http://www.periheliondesign.com/egpavr.htm

Just another option to consider. I have no affiliation, just a satisfied customer.

Vlad

08-27-2018, 06:00 PM

Before.

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/N666BK/Easing%20the%20maintenance/Rudder%20pedals%20-%201%201.jpg (http://s447.photobucket.com/user/N666BK/media/Easing%20the%20maintenance/Rudder%20pedals%20-%201%201.jpg.html)

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/N666BK/Easing%20the%20maintenance/Rudder%20pedals%20-%201%202.jpg (http://s447.photobucket.com/user/N666BK/media/Easing%20the%20maintenance/Rudder%20pedals%20-%201%202.jpg.html)

After.

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/N666BK/Easing%20the%20maintenance/Rudder%20pedals%20-%201.jpg (http://s447.photobucket.com/user/N666BK/media/Easing%20the%20maintenance/Rudder%20pedals%20-%201.jpg.html)

Steve Melton

08-27-2018, 07:29 PM

if only those zip ties could speak of the places they have been.

Hongie

08-28-2018, 12:36 AM

Apologies if this is seen as thread Hijacking, I'll delete the post if so.

I've drawn up a visor/sunshade for a Dynon SV-1000, and put it up on Thingiverse, feel free to try it and modify it if you so desire. I havent got access to a printer that can print a large enough volume to try it yet.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3069767

Steve Melton

08-28-2018, 02:42 AM

it's an open forum. new ideas are like candy or beer. I like it except for the razor sharp leading edge and you may be able to make it slightly thinner. I'll print it for you if you wish. Even though you are raised from the bed by the standoffs, we can print a nice flat surface.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsyfwmkndu.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsipjggaes.png

Hongie

08-28-2018, 03:33 PM

it's an open forum. new ideas are like candy or beer. I like it except for the razor sharp leading edge and you may be able to make it slightly thinner. I'll print it for you if you wish. Even though you are raised from the bed by the standoffs, we can print a nice flat surface.

snip

I have filleted that edge, good point.

As for your offer, I appreciate it, but cost to post to Australia would be prohibitive, but thanks very much

BMC_Dave

08-28-2018, 03:39 PM

I will modify that edge, good point.

As for your offer, I appreciate it, but cost to post to Australia would be prohibitive, but thanks very much

Well that's pretty neat :) Hadn't occurred to me to make a visor for the display itself. Nice solution if my dash visor isn't sufficient.

Steve Melton

08-28-2018, 03:56 PM

hey, round off the fwd edge and thin it slightly and I'll print it just to hold something in my hand designed in Australia. I'll post it. Color to be black.

Hongie

08-28-2018, 04:29 PM

hey, round off the fwd edge and thin it slightly and I'll print it just to hold something in my hand designed in Australia. I'll post it. Color to be black.

I have edited the front edge, and added a 1mm fillet. let me know if that would make it more printable.

Its also uploaded to Thingiverse as "V2" of the same file

Hongie

08-28-2018, 04:31 PM

Also, do the standoffs make it impossible to print? As I said, I have no experience with the actual printing process, I'm sure I can and do model some things that are impossible to print.

Steve Melton

08-28-2018, 05:11 PM

nope, I can print it just fine.

Steve Melton

08-30-2018, 03:54 AM

16mm lights with momentary switch, vertical panel orientation

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zps87bpvrk0.png

Snowflake

08-30-2018, 07:41 AM

Here's a thought... How about fitting 6 switches into a standard 3" instrument hole?

az_gila

08-30-2018, 08:43 AM

Here's a thought... How about fitting 6 switches into a standard 3" instrument hole?

Not many new panels even have 3" instrument holes included. My planned panel only has one for a G-5, but even that part actually has a square bezel.

Round instruments/panel bits are out...:D

Snowflake

08-30-2018, 04:16 PM

Not many new panels even have 3" instrument holes included.
No, but there are a lot more old panels that have them. I was thinking more for retrofit applications... Due to changes over the years i've ended up with two spare 3" holes.

Steve Melton

08-30-2018, 04:22 PM

these panels are starting to sell. anyone have a detailed wiring diagram?

az_gila

08-30-2018, 04:34 PM

these panels are starting to sell. anyone have a detailed wiring diagram?

More than the ones I posted earlier?

Steve Melton

08-30-2018, 04:50 PM

some questions on the terminals. I think some of these can be ganged together. only need the hot lead from the device to be separate?

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/wiring_zpsx4scqpqo.png

Steve Melton

09-01-2018, 10:24 AM

because this is very compact unit, a different arrangement of the d-sub support was required.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsdldxpm8n.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpssb6hdake.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpswt9ejfkp.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zpsci7x11ai.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap5_zps3hqev5zb.png

Steve Melton

09-01-2018, 10:34 AM

maybe cut a slot here to ease connector wire install? any thoughts.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap6_zps4ehxllnb.png

az_gila

09-01-2018, 01:50 PM

some questions on the terminals. I think some of these can be ganged together. only need the hot lead from the device to be separate?

.....

Yes, if you are switching items on/off with the buttons rather than using them as indicators only. All of the 'Common" and "-" pins can be directly connected (daisy-chained) together.

Steve Melton

09-01-2018, 03:09 PM

rudder pedal extension incorporating a vibration damper. medium stiffness rubber seal with internal foam. for the times when your feet are just resting on the pedals.

the cush will be tested soon.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsmu52pdab.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsk7bmb05g.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpsbbdsx1gc.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3075_zpspvfe4iio.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3085_zpsd7iezlae.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3081_zpse2kavaca.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3079_zpsar1jxnxb.jpg

Snowflake

09-02-2018, 09:11 AM

maybe cut a slot here to ease connector wire install? any thoughts.
I wouldn't want to give up the stiffness of the complete ring. I'd rather unscrew the arms from the front plate if I needed access.

Steve Melton

09-03-2018, 07:49 AM

yeah, probably better to build up the wiring and d-sub independently and then attach the d-sub support as the last step. I moved the d-sub to fwd side. This should make the assembly easier.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsbohctvel.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsvak67fiu.png

Steve Melton

09-03-2018, 08:02 AM

this lights plastic nut spacing on the back separates these lights slightly but still looks good.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3087_zps9cgdauf5.jpg

Steve Melton

09-03-2018, 07:59 PM

vertical orientation, d-sub support with connectors

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpssezsooh1.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zps3a7s6grz.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3093_zpss9pv8adm.jpg

Steve Melton

09-05-2018, 03:51 PM

vertical orientation, .1 inch offset. spacing required between lights for fit of backside light nut. still looks good.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsqgc6olgn.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpslpjymfba.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsx7lui8tt.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/4%20AP16mm%201X4_zpslxdg8mhm.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/5%20AP16mm%201X4_zpsapfz77ih.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/7%20AP16mm%201X4_zps9qasrrvb.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/3%20AP16mm%201X4_zpshi7icd8p.jpg

Steve Melton

09-09-2018, 12:37 PM

added connectors with fasteners. d-sub support, added 0.2 inch spacing from connector to lights to increase wiring spacing. Amanda will send updated d-sub support for those that have already ordered.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/3%20AP16mm%204X1_zpsjme0hmzj.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/4%20AP16mm%204X1_zpsass86wsz.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/5%20AP16mm%204X1_zpsscthtpj4.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/6%20AP16mm%204X1_zps0b13bzew.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/7%20AP16mm%204X1_zpsl4tne5do.jpg

Steve Melton

09-09-2018, 08:20 PM

installed the rudder pedal extension with vibration damper to right hand side. my initial barefoot thoughts are that I feel the ridge created by the damper under my foot where the flat surface feels better on the left hand side. the vibration damper adds .25 inch of length so it also feels closer. I must be sensitive to my foot placement because I like it always to feel just right. my pedal length is .52 inch extension from the bar. my pedals are angled further aft of bar than most, everyone has a different leg to pedal geometry. anyway, the removed pedal extension looked good, no signs of wear, it was tight when removed even with the clamping fasteners removed, original condition, about 100 hrs of use. I reused the attaching hardware, also no signs of wear, original condition. I haven't flow with this yet. I'll report after 10 hrs or so.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180909_202513_zpswa6tfrrl.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180909_202709_zpsioobqnnn.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180909_204124_zpsenhhh9g7.jpg

Steve Melton

09-23-2018, 08:21 AM

I like this vibration damper more than I expected. I didn't trap it in the groove to understand which direction it would migrate out. It migrates out of the slot with my foot motion towards the outboard rudder pedal edges. I added a stop at the outboard edge to trap it.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsgf9wytez.png

Steve Melton

10-02-2018, 07:22 PM

Amanda and I are kicking around a headset roll bar mount from an email request she received. trying something new to see if it works.

proto1

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsqzd39tro.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3108_zpsfq7xcirc.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3110_zpsf82077di.jpg

proto2
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3112_zps28z7dlfo.jpg

Steve Melton

10-06-2018, 09:15 AM

perhaps a single?

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpseirccwme.png

Steve Melton

10-06-2018, 12:15 PM

thinking about a Leatherman mount. someone requested it. I used to carry one but it was too big for my pocket and I leave it out but miss it. thinking of velco attach to the side in a vertical orientation.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsut3v8vwr.png

Steve Melton

10-06-2018, 03:40 PM

headset mount to the side seems more popular with a couple of folks. this is about to morph into something with a spring. I've been wanting to do that for awhile.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsvdjqnhzy.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsbq3wh1ai.png

Steve Melton

10-06-2018, 09:00 PM

looking at a hinge mount to clear field of vision. thinking of how to support in a retracted position. maybe a simple wing nut, light spring on the back side, or locking pin.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpstsk647m8.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3118_zpsk6enmkej.jpg

well, it's something. I haven't decided if I like it. I'll flip this around to make a side mount version.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsfcbhlshg.png

Steve Melton

10-07-2018, 06:42 PM

after 10 hrs of testing, I found that I like these dampers. during flight I have both a high and low frequency felt in the foot. these dampers reduced the high frequency vibration but not the low frequency. they are a nice improvement for me. I changed from .52 to .50 extension length because of the added distance of the damper. if a damper has wear then slide in a new one in less than a minute.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20181007_134858_zps3qnh9k7c.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20181007_134757_zpsdt2bdeck.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20181007_135651_zpszllcsh9q.jpg

Snowflake

10-07-2018, 09:54 PM

Where did you get the Leatherman model? That's the same one I carry all the time...

thinking about a Leatherman mount. someone requested it. I used to carry one but it was too big for my pocket and I leave it out but miss it. thinking of velco attach to the side in a vertical orientation.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsut3v8vwr.png

Steve Melton

10-08-2018, 02:44 PM

Where did you get the Leatherman model? That's the same one I carry all the time...

from grabcad

Steve Melton

10-08-2018, 04:46 PM

I think I will reduce the bolt size to a -10. .25 inch bolt is excessive.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20181007_165831_zpsccp1hdzd.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20181007_165400_zpsqvoaki5v.jpg

YvesCH

10-09-2018, 01:20 AM

I recently finished up my wiring but there were quite a lot wires going down the gear tower on my RV-8 and as I did the tower mod, my brake line goes now through the highest hole as well as all the cables. So I designed a small standoff:
http://i68.tinypic.com/296n91s.png
http://i63.tinypic.com/5b2xah.jpg

I am also searching for some switch guards but I do not want to have the big bulky ones. I prefer the ones from military and helicopters. But unfortunately I can`t find them. So i designed them myself and I will hope they are acceptable as 3D prints.. Lets see when they arrive…
http://i64.tinypic.com/1251gde.jpg

And as I started to install a smoke system I needed a dedicated housing for my relay and circuit board… So I designed one:

http://i64.tinypic.com/b47tjr.jpg

This should fit perfectly in my modified smoke system:
http://i68.tinypic.com/2uo3q0m.jpg

As always I used Shapeways with their SLS printing method…

now I am waiting for the smoke electrical housing as well as for the switch guards :) I will post Pictures as soon as I receive the parts...

Steve Melton

10-09-2018, 06:09 PM

another great from Basel!

post a photo of those switch guards when they come in.

az_gila

10-09-2018, 06:29 PM

Another possible idea after seeing the card RV model on the daily page.

Why not a plastic model of an RV that can be used to check out paint schemes?

Not too much detail needed, just as long as the major pieces are to scale.

Like the old Airfix kits we used to make. :)

https://aipetcher.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/spitfire-parts.jpg

Steve Melton

10-10-2018, 05:28 AM

side mount. assemble this after it snaps around the bar.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsa9m65p3b.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpswploqeim.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpsbmmertuu.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3139_zpsnjiuyzde.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3138_zpszchp2a0n.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3137_zpsjujahu6b.jpg

just for grins. how long can it be?

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zpsvog2hnl8.png

Steve Melton

10-10-2018, 07:59 PM

a thought

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap5_zpsb3bo3uhg.png

Snowflake

10-11-2018, 07:36 AM

Maybe a flip-down rear-view mirror?

a thought

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap5_zpsb3bo3uhg.png

Steve Melton

10-12-2018, 05:19 AM

looking at this for fun. light load applied at arm tip. this is a linear solution. to understand it completely it will require a non-linear solution, that comes next.

this is the linear solution. a light loading to understand the model.
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap6_zpskvlvwi0u.png

Steve Melton

10-21-2018, 06:56 AM

the arm can support 0.5 lb at the tip with .2 inch downward displacement. the displacement is caused primarily from the rotation at the clamp. I'm not sure how it could be used but it was interesting. assemble the clamp to the bar firstly then install the arm.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/BC_zpshqldjyh3.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/assyVM_zpspi3ugrpz.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/BC2_zpsndqbbyal.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/BC4_zpszsymvmjn.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/clamp_zps7amxhrzb.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/pin_zpsekfriroz.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/assyDSP_zpsjldc4pnl.png

Steve Melton

10-21-2018, 07:02 AM

a curved arm could nest against the canopy bow bar. I'm not sure of the use for this, just kicking it around.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/curved%20bar_zpsi3f3nhg3.png

Steve Melton

10-25-2018, 04:13 PM

darn close to the analysis using .8 lb, single beer. then double loaded. the first one broke the seal, what a shame.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20181023_170345_zpsov6mvdb1.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20181023_170438_zpszl9xq0hm.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20181023_170455_zpsndg8izrw.jpg

double

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20181023_170513_zpsdg7i1lxm.jpg

Steve Melton

10-29-2018, 04:53 AM

Amanda is sending a couple of these out for evaluation.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20181028_120952_zps8bkuxwji.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20181028_121016_zpslpowu4yn.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20181028_120957_zpsbj3uvryg.jpg

Steve Melton

10-31-2018, 05:05 AM

final details and print settings. added a small boss to the nut side to be easier to get a socket or wrench on to the small nut. very easy to adjust friction. these should have a long life. simple to make and low cost.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3149_zpsze9da5ya.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN3151_zps6scd1m2x.jpg