a couple printed ideas [Archive] - Page 2

dtw_rv6

11-22-2017, 07:03 AM

If you do a lot of printing, you might look at PolyMAX PC. It's a polycarbonate filament that I think prints as easily as ABS, and is a lot tougher in service. Most PC is pretty expensive, but I just bought a 6 lb spool from them for $120 or $20/lb. That's just marginally more than a halfway decent spool of ABS. It might be overkill for light duty applications, but I like the extra durability you get with it.

ABS has good strength and creep resistance. ABS is used for Lego parts. I have 40 year old Lego's that look and work like new. ABS max operating temp = 80C (176F). ABS can be more difficult to print. Once you get the print temperatures dialed in you can make some really good parts.

Steve Melton

11-22-2017, 06:45 PM

RPM 2350, 8500 ft, wide open throttle, normal was 154 ktas, now 157ktas. I've never been faster. No change to stall speed. I think I have my 3 knots.... with a camera mounted on the wing. I need someone to cross check my results. Planning for a cross county this weekend, the fairings are staying on.

https://youtu.be/vM3PJ1nhcPk

PS: a guy coming in from the North for a mid field crossing got an alert from approach that I was climbing out and was at 1600 ft and over the runway (1000 ft agl). it made me wonder if climbing so fast was a good idea and had me looking around.

Steve Melton

11-25-2017, 04:14 PM

11.5K ft, -6C on the way home. fairings look good so far.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171125_120209_zpsl8xqsp68.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171125_120141_zps896w05zg.jpg

Steve Melton

11-27-2017, 10:03 AM

I didn't want to say much about this because I have not done back to back with and without fairing speed calibrations but 11.5K, 2235RPM, 20 Hg, 150 ktas, 5.7 gph, with fairings. before the fairings I recall 20Hg, 2200RPM, 139 ktas, 5.7 gph, I don't recall if it was 9.5K or 11.5K.

dwranda

11-27-2017, 10:49 AM

Steve,
I apologize if I missed this somewhere in this post but are you sharing your designs on any online sites for others to print at home? I understand if you don't want to share since your daughter has that nice website!!
Thanks,
Dave

Steve Melton

11-27-2017, 03:46 PM

no, I don't post these models to online websites. when flight testing is completed I will give these to Amanda to post on her website. she's shipped several packages and now has some spending money. for me it's good interaction time with her.

Snowflake

11-28-2017, 07:59 AM

(paraphrasing)
11.5K, 2235RPM, 20 Hg, 150 ktas, 5.7 gph, with fairings.
9.5K or 11.5K, 20Hg, 2200RPM, 139 ktas, 5.7 gph, before fairings.

That seems... Um... Optimistic, to say the least.

I look forward to more detailed data from two successive flights, one with fairings and one without, on the same day... :)

vlittle

11-28-2017, 08:24 AM

If you fly at exactly the same MAP and RPM and the same density altitude on 2 different days, you can see significant airspeed differences (multiple knots).

The error comes in because of the use of density altitude for comparison. It's fine for the aerodynamics of the aircraft, but not for engine performance.

If one looks at the Lycoming power charts, there is a correction for engine horsepower at a given pressure altitude, based on temperature. This is not the same formula as the correction to get density altitude.

The best way to minimize this error, as Rob implies, is to perform comparison tests under identical atmospheric conditions.

There may be a spreadsheet somewhere that corrects for performance based on these factors, maybe one of the professional test pilots can share it with us.

V

humptybump

11-28-2017, 09:55 AM

If you fly at exactly the same MAP and RPM and the same density altitude on 2 different days, you can see significant airspeed differences (multiple knots).

Bob Axom used a solution for performance testing his racing mods which compensated for the variability of times of day and between days. Granted, he was always testing at WOT but the goal was the same - to be able to compare performance of a given change across different days.

I used it for propeller testing. Here is the link (http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=947545&postcount=2) to the VAF post.

Steve Melton

11-28-2017, 03:25 PM

That seems... Um... Optimistic, to say the least.

I look forward to more detailed data from two successive flights, one with fairings and one without, on the same day... :)

yeah, +11 kts is unrealistic for these fairings. different days for testing, the latest flight with the fairings was much colder. I will do a proper back to back with the final config. the left side fairing color will be white.

Steve Melton

11-29-2017, 03:19 PM

a concept idea for a fairing for a bottom mounted whip antenna to add an airfoil section to the vertical section. however, this addition will make it ripe for flutter. I will do some reduced velocity calculations to verify how bad it is. appreciate any feedback on flutter potential. this printed pieced is split and will clamp around the antenna. another option could be to let it swivel. I'm currently 50/50 on this one, not sure I'm even going to try it. The steel rod = 0.190 inch diameter but tapers towards the aft end.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/whip%20it%20good_zps2rdplmlv.jpg

proto1 print, I can print this much better but good enough for a fit check. I had an idea to print the fwd area solid and the aft hollow. This was my quick first run.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Capture1_zpsvsw77rps.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Capture2_zpsmrbfhhzk.png

Steve Melton

11-29-2017, 04:01 PM

Experiment first by mounting it on the hood of a car, slowly increasing speed. Maybe use the runway for higher speed testing. At least you will know if you can get the antenna up to pattern speeds.

Keeping the antenna as far forward in the fairing as possible is beneficial for flutter (but no guarantee it won't flutter). Letting it swivel will alleviate side loads on the antenna attachment during slips and other non-coordinated maneuvering.

I was moving the antenna further aft to shift the fairing cg fwd and printing the fwd edge as solid, but in this case with the end fixed it don't think it will matter. letting it swivel may be the better approach.

Steve Melton

11-29-2017, 04:37 PM

my concern is with torsion and bending coupling of the antenna rod with the fairing. letting it swivel will eliminate the torsion component almost completely except for friction and ABS is slick so friction will be very low.

Steve Melton

11-29-2017, 07:44 PM

there is .1" play the aft edge. I will recut that and give it a draft in flat at the horizontal fit (will actually be an arc) to allow at least .25" play at the aft edge. that should eliminate the torsional degree of freedom from interacting. plan to flight test this week. thanks for the comments.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171129_194458_zpsjvixsjab.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171129_194937_zpshi8b4cqj.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171129_202440_zpsqlwpeasi.jpg

Steve Melton

11-30-2017, 05:04 AM

I don't believe we want to allow the fairing and the antenna to couple torsionally. Except there will always be some friction. ABS to steel coefficient of friction ~ 0.06. that's relatively low but still a risk.

step1. the antenna CG is far aft (long wire) and the fairing center of pressure (CP) is forward. it is better to have the CG forward of the CP so we have to decouple them in the lateral direction. that means the fairing has to be able to swivel somewhat.

step2. the fairing must not be allowed to flutter. the fairing is symmetrical so it's CP = 25% of cord. place the antenna pass thru at 25% cord. for a symmetrical airfoil CP does not change with AOA so if needed the pass thru wire could be moved slightly aft of 25% cord.

step3. move the the fairing CG forward of the CP by increasing the leading edge weight.

antenna freq response
17.2 Hz (hey, I guessed 20 Hz by twanging it with my finger, pretty close)
18 Hz
70.8 Hz
71.1 Hz
145.5 Hz
157.2 Hz

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/17.2%20Hz_zpskmcmksrb.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/18%20Hz_zpsy7zkhmdm.png

F1Boss

11-30-2017, 08:27 AM

Looks like a whole lotta drag there too as the area where the wire comes out is round...so I would GUESS that the antenna wire cover is only a starting point?

Great idea IMHO!

BMC_Dave

11-30-2017, 09:29 AM

How does the flow past this shape compare to an angled cylinder, which is oval?

fl-mike

11-30-2017, 09:57 AM

Steve,
Keep in mind that the angled rod Cd is not that bad really.
It is an oval cross section.

https://goo.gl/images/nVXjCo

Steve Melton

11-30-2017, 10:05 AM

may get 0.3 lb drag reduction with a fairing for typical cruse speed. while not a lot, it's something.

The AV-17 is designed specifically for mounting to the underside of an aircraft, providing an excellent radiation pattern for air-to-ground communications. It has a 4-bolt mounting base and a low profile configuration that makes it ideal for helicopters and low-wing aircraft. The antenna is designed to operate at speeds up to 350 mph and altitudes up to 50,000 ft. It has a drag force of 0.66 lb @ 250 mph.

BMC_Dave

11-30-2017, 11:20 AM

Steve Melton

11-30-2017, 04:50 PM

an estimate. an airfoil is about 1/10 the drag of a small cylinder.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/drag%20coefficient%20comparison%20common%20shapes_ zpsn5vtjorh.png

BMC_Dave

11-30-2017, 08:04 PM

an estimate. an airfoil is about 1/10 the drag of a small cylinder.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/drag%20coefficient%20comparison%20common%20shapes_ zpsn5vtjorh.png

Right, but the angled antenna gives a oval cross section to the air stream so it's not as bad as a straight-on cylinder.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/images/2010/03/a-night-with-the-cervelo-technical-folk-9.png

Steve Melton

12-02-2017, 07:41 AM

steel rod counterweight added at the leading edge. not sure what will do for the radio? added some slight recessed dots to mark for drilling in order to remove easily.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Capture3_zpsidojqhqn.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Capture4_zpschx2mltm.png

vlittle

12-02-2017, 08:05 AM

Tom Martin

12-02-2017, 08:49 AM

Safety note: a bit off topic but please put a tennis ball or empty water bottle on that antenna tip if you are working under the airplane. While on a creeper I had the end of the antennae slide between my eye ball and eye lid. I was very lucky to not lose that eye. I know of one other pilot who has had a similar experience.
( End of off topic safety note)

BMC_Dave

12-02-2017, 10:41 AM

I think you will be detuning your antenna with a steel rod in close proximity. I defer to more recent engineering grads for this analysis.

I'm all for experimentation, but this is unlikely to be worth the effort. If it doesn't end up a net loss due to weight and imperfections in the shape, there's no way it's going to be a 45% reduction in drag force compared to the antenna.

Snowflake

12-02-2017, 12:33 PM

Steve, why add a counterweight at all? It looks like this is being made in two pieces, and screwed together... Just use the two pieces to clamp around the "vertical" piece, and at the base where the horizontal part comes out, clamp tightly around that as well. Surely that will prevent rotation?

I tend to agree that the drag on this short piece of (angled, and hence elliptical to the airflow) antenna is likely to be so small already, that even decreasing the drag by 90% won't make a difference that's measurable.

That said, I have an ELT antenna that also comes down and bends aft, and I definitely plan on making a fairing for it now that I've seen this one... It would look a lot better... :)

Steve Melton

12-02-2017, 04:05 PM

192 ktas, slipped right thru my 187 target. bird on a wire but it didn't sing but the trailing antenna is bouncing somewhat. not sure if that's normal. the antenna fairing looks good. clamped with tape as shown. my belly oil cans at 1:57.

https://youtu.be/2LhFZwankY0

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171202_154934_zpsvinsk3pm.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171202_143525_zpswxptmjgb.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171202_154843_zpsar7n3hyp.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171202_134532_zpsm1phlvt4.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171202_143813_zpssuaza9by.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171202_143808_zps4epksh5a.jpg

Snowflake

12-03-2017, 09:58 AM

Looks like (based on the tape lines) it swung to one side (tail end to right) once you got up to speed... I think you'll definitely need to get the trailing portion of the antenna clamped in there to keep it straight.

It looks like the lower portion of the white antenna mount is also round for about 1 to 1.5 inches at the bottom... Maybe the fairing should be extended up around it as well... :)

Steve Melton

12-03-2017, 12:04 PM

how to explain the deviation of the fairing to the right at flying speed? perhaps the antenna rod is not perfectly vertical or nose wheel fairing influence.

even tho the fairing looked good after the flight it will find the trash can because it would never survive long term with the antenna response. a science experiment of a bird on a wire. I'm fortunate it didn't depart.

Steve Melton

12-09-2017, 08:17 PM

white is more cream color. I do like the contrast of the grey aft fairing in the middle.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171209_144107_zps8wvwdzjp.jpg

Scott Hersha

12-11-2017, 05:53 PM

That's looks really great, Steve, on those Airbus designed aileron brackets. Do you have something for the much smaller bumps under the RV8 wings?

Steve Melton

12-11-2017, 06:22 PM

humm, I don't know of those RV-8 bumps under the wing.

Scott Hersha

12-12-2017, 06:48 AM

I guess what I'm looking at are the flap brackets, so not applicable to the RV8. I was referring to the lower aileron brackets which protrude just slightly, like all RV's.

bpattonsoa

12-12-2017, 08:04 AM

Perhaps "buttons" to fill the recess with the bolt head and the nut/cotter pin. Snap into a notch on the inside of the recess. Would clean up the airflow a bunch.

Steve Melton

12-12-2017, 03:11 PM

yes, I am going to look at adding a snap button as an option.

Steve Melton

12-16-2017, 03:53 AM

kicking around some button ideas

chamfer at fwd leading edge flat should allow the button to be popped out when needed. these are easy to print. need to verify they remove easily.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Capture1_zps02if6ibx.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Capture2_zpsx21qw77q.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Capture3_zpsgj47qkoi.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Capture4_zpsfpio45ex.png

Steve Melton

12-17-2017, 07:10 PM

proto4, snap buttons and 3 deg down trim on the fairing airfoil

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2023_zpstayijdmo.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2022_zpskbfhmqi9.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2024_zpslbr5vq7y.jpg

Snowflake

12-18-2017, 09:21 AM

Steve Melton

12-18-2017, 09:54 AM

Steve, I wonder... Given how little load there is on these bolts rotationally, if you shaped the snap-in covers to fit the bolt and nut heads, do you even need cotter pins? A fitted cover would likely hold the nut in place quite well.

that thought crossed my mind but in the end I decided to stay with the cotter pins. I may need to modify the nut side to allow for the cotter pin to be bent over the bolt end. with this design I can visually see that the bolts are in place during pre-flight inspection.

Steve Melton

12-24-2017, 03:09 PM

proto4 installed.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171224_122602_zpsdjhtfzwp.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171224_123013_zpszvubzvyl.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171224_123248_zpsh1ex1mwm.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171224_123910_zpsde3uyu7i.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171224_124226_zpsrqrtihks.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171224_124323_zps0r6l5vgf.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171224_124415_zpsbcllryiq.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171224_130337_zpss1gl4qoa.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171224_131831_zpsfxiiyyrj.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20171224_124727_zpsifqc7bqr.jpg

Steve Melton

12-24-2017, 03:35 PM

no wasted space

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Capture1_zpssw7sxqm5.png

db1yg

12-25-2017, 10:21 AM

Hey Steve,

Looking good -- can't wait to see your test results!!

Cheers,

db

Bill Boyd

12-25-2017, 10:35 AM

Looking good, Steve! I hope those aileron hinges are next. Thanks for sharing the R&D process with us.

Steve Melton

12-27-2017, 12:19 PM

I am getting close to buttoning up this project.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN20701_zpse2oywtlf.jpg

close up view as printed no surface clean up. increased the print resolution on the button faces. for flat surfaces, I prefer a file to sandpaper for clean-up. I think ABS plastic would make good whittling material.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN20711_zpsupjpyvo6.jpg

Snowflake

12-28-2017, 09:16 AM

Have you tried an acetone vapour bath? That would clean those ABS parts up quite nicely regardless of filing/sanding/etc. marks.

Steve Melton

12-28-2017, 09:54 AM

I tried it once but didn't much care for the smell. I perfer to file the nibs and use a little sandpaper. The airflow surfaces are smooth enough and the basic shape is what smooths the flow.

Steve Melton

12-29-2017, 08:01 PM

getting some wiggle from the large spool side mount, 11 lb spool. decided to base mount large spool. a quick job. make a quarter of the part then mirror to make a half then mirror again to make full.

printed part weight = 1.1 lb. material cost = $12.36

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/large%20spool%20holder_zpsft5wwu77.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2270_zps2mqdpak6.jpg

deflection analysis

4X the vertical loading, 44 lb
1 lb side loading

boundary condition
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/BC_zpst6socbwy.png

X displacement, deflection outboard = .14 inch with 1 lb load forcing top open
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/X%20disp_zpsabvzttqk.png

stress, negligible
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/VM%20stress_zpsnrb2q5up.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN22761_zpsfgg1ufx8.jpg

Steve Melton

12-29-2017, 08:10 PM

decided to go for green buttons for the right hand side so not to be confused for the left hand side, small parts.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2239_zpsa0zgq4te.jpg

ready for flight test, maybe get an extra knot with everything buttoned up? appreciate the push to get the buttons in there. it cleans it up.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2264_zpsjlwkp4aj.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2250_zpsyo9unlfu.jpg

JKintzle

12-30-2017, 10:47 AM

Steve Melton

12-30-2017, 12:50 PM

Steve,
Beautiful work and green buttons for the right side are a nice touch (red on the left side?).

Question I had is how you're permanently attaching the gray plastic rear piece to the flap hinge? I see it is currently attached with what looks like painters tape.
Great job!

yes, I am thinking red for the left side but they are currently grey on my install. the pieces are small and easily confused so different colors are the way to go. the aft fairing piece has been attached with 1/4 inch vinyl tape but for the final install I was thinking about a dab of Goop adhesive. It will not require much glue to secure these. these are printed as a 6-pack. 0.010 inch sacrificial material is added to the lower side to be filed away after final install for a smooth surface.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/aft%20fairing_zps5pztxmtm.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2137_zpsoaknzzfg.jpg

rv7charlie

12-30-2017, 01:27 PM

Steve Melton

12-30-2017, 01:47 PM

Instead of the snap-in covers (that still leave the head & nut exposed), would it be possible to make the teardrop in two halves that snap onto/over retaining '****' printed on the blade? Should be possible to get a pure streamline shape, with no interruptions on the surface. Pop them off for access to the bolt.

Well, I suppose anything is possible. I opted for the smallest profile and I wanted to be able to see the bolt and cotter pin is installed. The buttons are almost a perfectly smooth fit. During my pre-flight I typically run my finger over the flap bracket to verify the bolt and cotter pin is in place. I can still do that with this config.

Steve Melton

12-31-2017, 12:39 PM

kicking around a concept for a shirt hanger for the tip up canopy folks that have a wall stud style sheet metal channel over the baggage compartment. a couple of large loose fit pins used as guides between the upper and lower.

just a concept, don't need the tangs on the lower piece and they need to be reworked on the top... but could probably be extended for a tie. <smile>

fiberglass shoulder eyebolt

total weight = .25 lb.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Assy%20capture1_zps7v6ywe7h.png

Steve Melton

01-01-2018, 08:30 AM

proto1. pins are secured to the upper clamp and hang downwards to guide the lower clamp. the pins are loose fit to the bottom clamp for ease. a shoulder eyebolt is needed. looking for a low cost solution. maybe a fully threaded 1/4 inch eyebolt with a nut at the full thread position? weight reduced, now 0.19 lb total.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/assy1_zpssztjo0fb.png

humptybump

01-01-2018, 08:39 AM

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN22761_zpsfgg1ufx8.jpg

I went with a top-mount for my spools. It reduces stress on the filament into the extruded.

BTW: where do you source jumbo spools of filament?

Steve Melton

01-01-2018, 08:46 AM

amazon has the large spools for some brands. the one in the photo = 5kg.

it's nice to be able to print a mount and get exactly what you want. don't need to buy from China anymore for these simple things and you don't have to wait for it to ship.... and it's less expensive. what's not to like?

humptybump

01-01-2018, 08:59 AM

nice to be able to print a mount and get exactly what you want.

Agreed. I built my top mount from wood as it was faster than printing :D

I?m trying to standardize most of my projects on a single material but that?s not happening very well. Even with a heated enclosure, large ABS prints (at the extents of the TAZ6 build volume) with significant flat surfaces and walls are warping or cracking. I?m looking at HIPS for some prints and PLA for non-environmentally critical projects. I still like ABS when it matches the design parameters.

Steve Melton

01-01-2018, 10:37 AM

Agreed. I built my top mount from wood as it was faster than printing :D

I?m looking at HIPS for some prints and PLA for non-environmentally critical projects. I still like ABS when it matches the design parameters.

the large spool mount is PLA. I agree with you for the material selections.

Steve Melton

01-02-2018, 09:17 PM

proto1 ready for install check. total weight = 0.15 lb

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zpsuqsa36fw.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap2_zps4bjdihjs.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap4_zpsi7ys4a79.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2324_zpsoablkyer.jpg

shadowbrush

01-03-2018, 12:11 AM

how to explain the deviation of the fairing to the right at flying speed?

Might be prop wash.

Holger

Steve Melton

01-03-2018, 01:08 PM

I thought the vane would be mostly straight aft or slightly trailing edge to the left because of prop rotation. I was surprised that at lift off speed the trailing edge moved to right. It must be the prop but I don't understand the flow stream.

shadowbrush

01-03-2018, 07:56 PM

Of course, now that you know where the wind is blowing from, you could rotate the naked antenna to the right and reap the massive drag reduction. ;)

Steve Melton

01-05-2018, 04:34 PM

perfect fit and secure. will not damage sheet metal since only one side has tang against a flat. I'm happy with it. Keeping cost and weight low with simple eyebolt and nut.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180105_134313_zpsbcqat0ac.jpg

overload to maximum, springs back to original.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180105_142203_zps8wyyxprr.jpg

humptybump

01-06-2018, 03:56 AM

Of course, now that you know where the wind is blowing from, you could rotate the naked antenna to the right and reap the massive drag reduction. ;)

Dan, I would have expected you to propose adding a micro servo drive motor with torque sensor feedback so the vane could auto trim. :rolleyes:

Edited: (Oops, not “Dan”. I folded two threads ... almost as dangerous as crossing the streams.)

shadowbrush

01-06-2018, 11:20 AM

Dan, I would have expected you to propose adding a micro servo drive motor with torque sensor feedback so the bane could auto trim. :rolleyes:
Glen, I don't know who Dan is, but find your approach quite reasonable. And may I suggest the simple addition of using your sensor feedback to also drive a dedicated rudder trim tab (with indicator) and ensure coordinated flight? It's the little details that make a superior craft. :o

Holger

rv7charlie

01-06-2018, 11:31 AM

Is the material not strong enough to print the eyebolt, too?

Steve Melton

01-06-2018, 11:54 AM

nope, a 1/4 inch dia long bolt is not a good application for ABS. the overload test placed several hundred pounds on the bolt.

Steve Melton

01-14-2018, 10:43 AM

eyebolt model weight = 30 grams

actual part weight = 30 grams

this is the not the fairing but rather the hardware that it will attach.

http://www.cleavelandtool.com/Stainless-Tie-Down-Ring/productinfo/RVTR4/#.WluW4K6nGUk

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zpssnvrqx8a.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap2_zpspzesmaxi.png

Since I jack on these tie downs I wondered of their load capability. 600 lb applied at the very edge of the lower hole resulted in high stress. Stainless 316 annealed bar used in the analysis (I don't know which stainless they use for mfg so I chose a low grade to be conservative), material properties of 75 ksi ultimate and about 30 ksi yield and a lot of ductility, around 30% elongation to failure. The results show permanent deformation may occur but nothing close to failed condition and the stresses will redistribute quite well. So, the message to me is to be sure to have a rounded shape jacking feature, like a cup, to distribute the load around the lower ball surface. The good news is that the thread and shank are overall more robust but a couple local areas may have slight yielding. I still plan to use these for jacking but I'm not going to be jumping up and down on the wing at the same time. <smile>

Elastic analysis - pseudo stress

boundary condition. red area is thread - sliding/fixed, green area is 600 lb towards the thread
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/BC1_zpsx8nqierk.png

displacement
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/disp%20mag_zpsrqigk2us.png

stress
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/vm%20stress%202_zps57tcaz0o.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/vm%20stress_zpskxezm2cj.png

Steve Melton

01-14-2018, 09:39 PM

this is a plastic analysis for 30 ksi yield strength and the corresponding strain. this is what really happens as some of the local high stress areas yield. the stress redistributes. the local strain areas are prone to cracking after many cycles. It should not be a problem for this application because the cycles are low and the strain values are also low and the material has good ductility. I am confident I can use these for jacking points for the life of the aircraft.

stress
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/plastic%20VM%20stress_zpsfl5ti6dx.png

plastic strain - these are the areas to inspect for cracks. the risk of developing cracks is very low unless there is some material defect.
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/plastic%20VM%20stress_zps1z0kjxj6.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/plastic%20eqiv%20strain2_zpsw0mjli9f.png

Sam Staton

01-15-2018, 03:44 AM

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but are you proposing an ABS printed bolt for a jacking point?

Steve Melton

01-15-2018, 05:45 AM

no. this will be a clip on fairing for this tie down eyebolt. I became side tracked to understand the stress on this part when jacking the aircraft using the eyebolt as the lifting point.

shadowbrush

01-15-2018, 08:35 AM

I'd think using a piece of soft wood would distribute the stress around the eyebolt to the extend you could smash the wing around the eyebolt and it would still be fine. But the stress visualization was interesting; thanks for sharing!

Holger

David Paule

01-15-2018, 02:43 PM

Steve Melton

01-15-2018, 03:38 PM

Back when I was doing stress analysis in the aerospace community, we used these numbers for ground support factors of safety:

5.0 for failure
4.0 for yielding

Also be aware that in a strong wind, 600 pounds is low but in the ballpark for tiedown rope loads, and that these come at an angle.

Additionally, with this particular fitting, I expect that the relatively small radius of bend for the rope at the edges will significantly add to the rope stress. It wouldn't surprise me to have tie down ropes break at this fitting because of that.

Dave

I agree with those factors of safety for ground support equipment for new design. This is an assessment of an existing design for jacking the aircraft. I use a metal snap link thru the hole and then the rope to the link for tie down.

David Paule

01-15-2018, 05:00 PM

That's a very good way to manage that relatively small radius edge in that part.

Dave

Steve Melton

01-15-2018, 06:08 PM

to be spring loaded for quick removal and install. you know, I fly around with these tie downs hanging out and use them only occasionally but I don't want to be threading them in and out when I need them. not a good idea if it's gusty. I want to leave them in place and add a quickly removable fairing. the goal is to be able to remove and install the fairing with one hand.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zps4txuwn91.png

offset cone shape will force the fairing against the wing skin

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap2_zpssedbwr00.png

Snowflake

01-16-2018, 07:44 AM

How will you install the "plunger" piece? Looks like it would have to come in from the front...

Steve Melton

01-16-2018, 10:28 AM

How will you install the "plunger" piece? Looks like it would have to come in from the front...

yep, it needs a spring loaded plunger. difficult to fit. I think I'll take the easy way out and give it to Amanda to solve. it will be interesting to see what a 15 yr old can come up with.

aparchment

01-16-2018, 10:49 AM

LOL! Great idea Steve. Give her a leg up on devising practical solutions.

Thanks to you and Amanda for the printed fuel drain fairings. They fit like a glove.

yep, it needs a spring loaded plunger. difficult to fit. I think I'll take the easy way out and give it to Amanda to solve. it will be interesting to see what a 15 yr old can come up with.

Bill Boyd

01-16-2018, 11:05 AM

yep, it needs a spring loaded plunger. difficult to fit. I think I'll take the easy way out and give it to Amanda to solve. it will be interesting to see what a 15 yr old can come up with.

Roll pin, like the one that holds your back-riveting set together?

Steve Melton

01-16-2018, 03:14 PM

Roll pin, like the one that holds your back-riveting set together?

yeah, maybe something like that. thx for the tip.

Steve Melton

01-16-2018, 05:28 PM

kicking this idea around with Amanda. maybe something like this?

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zpstgm7rh1l.png

David Paule

01-16-2018, 05:37 PM

How about three rounded bumps inside the cylindrical bore: one on each sides and one in front of the cylindrical bore?

The front one would simply be a locator to keep the fairing from going too far aft accidentally, while the two side ones would tend to snap in place. The skin would provide support in pitch and roll, while the bumps themselves would give support in yaw.

To remove it, pull forward to unsnap it, and then down. You'd have to have enough clearance at the aft side of the bore to permit that motion.

This will only work if the Cleaveland fitting always screws in to the same position, but then any method that relies on locating the fitting's holes has that issue.

Dave

Steve Melton

01-16-2018, 06:09 PM

I think I understand your thoughts. I do like the idea of the bumps on the fwd side but want to be sure the fairing is pushed upwards towards the skin, hence the cone shape. this design doesn't have yaw constraint. it will probably be able to wiggle in yaw slightly by hand, but not much as the cones will contact the edges. it will have roll and pitch constraint to the wing skin. thanks for the input, noted and sketched.

Steve Melton

01-16-2018, 06:17 PM

LOL! Great idea Steve. Give her a leg up on devising practical solutions.

Thanks to you and Amanda for the printed fuel drain fairings. They fit like a glove.

Amanda says thanks. And I'll tell you that she took the money and bought another fish for her tank. It's all about plastic and fish around here.

Bevan

01-16-2018, 06:52 PM

All this fantastic manufacturing technology is great, but has anyone calculated anticipated drag reduction and therefore increased speed?

Bevan

Steve Melton

01-17-2018, 03:53 AM

rv8ch

01-17-2018, 05:02 AM

As it it less than 20$ in plastic and other parts if you already have a 3D-printer, I am fine with skipping the calcs and settle for testing... anything above 3 knots for the drain and flap attachment fairing would make me think it is worth it :DMy highly calibrated eyeball estimates that this will give you up to 4.159265359 knots. ;)

sahrens

01-17-2018, 12:56 PM

kicking this idea around with Amanda. maybe something like this?

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zpstgm7rh1l.png

Why not attach the cone to an appropriate length hex head screw that threads in from the back side to move the cone into the tie down?

Similar to the fuel drain fairing attachment but with the screw end attached to the cone.

RVbySDI

01-17-2018, 02:04 PM

All this fantastic manufacturing technology is great, but has anyone calculated anticipated drag reduction and therefore increased speed?

Bevan

I have not, but I am working to get CFD up and running to make an assessment.

As it it less than 20$ in plastic and other parts if you already have a 3D-printer, I am fine with skipping the calcs and settle for testing... anything above 3 knots for the drain and flap attachment fairing would make me think it is worth it :DI know all of this is for fun, education and, well, because we can. Given that, my unsolicited thoughts: The real question really isn't what is the drag delta from the faired tie down vs non-faired tie down ring. The real question is what is the drag reduction delta of the faired ring vs removing the ring? Is it enough to merit adding this fairing? The truth of the matter is this fairing is thought up for the purpose of keeping one from having to always remove the tie down rings. If removing the tie down decreases the drag greater than does this fairing, is the cost of the fairing justified? In $$ and in effort? I know which I would choose if the fairing increases drag from that of no ring attached?

John-G

01-17-2018, 02:11 PM

Steve-
First the disclaimer …. don’t own a 3D printer and know nothing about creating 3D CAD drawings, but I’m very interested in learning more about the process so have been watching this thread.

Just a thought about how one could assemble the cone/shaft assembly into the suggested housing for the tie down. The cone/shaft that goes into the tie down housing could be made from two pieces with the end of the shaft having four teeth on it that would be inserted into the cone and lock into a grove inside the cone. Once pushed in place, the teeth on the end of the shaft would provide a one-time push on assembly (but no removal). One can get an idea of what I have in mind by looking at the following photo. The locking end of the shaft could look something like the following photo but with four well defined catches instead of the two shown in the photo. After all the parts are printed the spring and cone can be installed in the housing then the shaft with the catches inserted and locked into the cone.
https://media.digikey.com/photos/Richco%20Photos/SLP-1-100-307-01.JPG

Snowflake

01-17-2018, 05:50 PM

All this fantastic manufacturing technology is great, but has anyone calculated anticipated drag reduction and therefore increased speed?
One knot per SPF. That's Small Plastic Fairing. So add as many as you can, to everything that sticks out... :)

Steve Melton

01-17-2018, 07:33 PM

I like it. SPF.

rvmills

01-18-2018, 01:19 AM

And soon you'll be able to create a rating scale for aircraft based on how many of your cool fairings are installed. SPF 50 being much faster than SPF 25, eh! :D

Cheers,
Bob

I like it. SPF.

TCONROY

01-18-2018, 10:46 AM

JD Airparts makes a similar fairing for the fuel tank drain sump and fuel vents. This would be a great addition for the tie-downs.

whodja

01-18-2018, 03:39 PM

How about a cover with a spring loaded hinge in front of the tie down. Adhere to the wing surface with proseal.

Steve Melton

01-19-2018, 06:04 PM

clearly this one needs some work. it was easily removable with one hand in about 2 seconds. it positively locked to the eyebolt.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180119_182803_zps0tkdtzsb.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180119_182906_zpsexr9q1ct.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180119_190456_zpsijlbkrb2.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180119_182956_zpsrauaozck.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180119_183101_zpsjujslb9v.jpg

Steve Melton

01-19-2018, 09:31 PM

optimized use of space. recessed eyebolt to actual condition to ensure positive contact of fairing to wing skin.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zps7uavatmy.png

rockwoodrv9

01-19-2018, 10:03 PM

Steve, I saw a picture of one of the racers at Reno - can't remember who, that had cut plastic water bottles to cover the opening for the rudder hings.

I really like the flap hinge brackets and several of the other items you have come up with. I am going to have to spend some time and learn SW. You look like you are having too much fun!

The covers for the tie down hooks look like about as much trouble to take on and off as the bolts they cover. If you use a standard eye bolt edge first, does that disrupt the wind flow to need a fairing?

Thanks for all the postings on printing. It opens up so much more than CNC.

Steve Melton

01-20-2018, 06:41 AM

3D printing is an engineers dream. barriers are and will be broken down for the individual to build and create. kids are growing up with this technology. no telling what it will become. the technology has taken awhile to mature but it has passed the critical mass point and will move even faster now. the key is to learn to model while keeping the printing limitations in mind.

to reduce drag obviously the best solution is to completely remove the tie down eyebolt. I just don't like doing that and wanted another low drag solution. I probably use the tie down 10 percent of my flights. I don't have any calculated drag numbers and these small fairings will be hard to quantify during flight testing but I believe they are in the direction of goodness for reducing drag.

I am looking forward to getting back in the air today after all the snow and hopefully my oil leak from a top case bolt is solved.

Steve Melton

01-20-2018, 09:59 AM

trying multiple ideas as suggested by a forum member.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zpssyoocvjy.png

RV7A Flyer

01-20-2018, 03:29 PM

to reduce drag obviously the best solution is to completely remove the tie down eyebolt.

And then plug the hole where the tiedowns go :)

Steve Melton

01-20-2018, 06:16 PM

I've never been faster. 141 kts at 20.5 MP, 2325 rpm at 2500 ft. low power setting. low clouds. this is about 6 kts faster than my normal speed. temp = 10C.

Flap bracket fairings with buttons and tie down fairings, both sides. Slipping thru the air. The tie down fairings worked perfectly, concept 1 rev 2. I plan to evaluate concept 2 in the future but I'm pleased so far.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180120_132959_zpsdhploudh.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180120_161716_zpsiju2ed3y.jpg

slight play on the fairing is not a problem. the fairing is positively secure. fairing removal takes about a second with one hand. it can be installed and removed by feel, no need to look under. Note: the trailing rod does not need to be as long, I just whacked a rod. tie down fairing total weight = 19 grams.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180120_133032_zpsdsfcx4qc.jpg

the test platform
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180120_163429_zpseyhktfkl.jpg

Steve Melton

01-21-2018, 07:11 AM

no wasted space. total installed weight now down to 18 grams.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1%20print_zps7bjmku4x.png

getting close to finishing concept 1. I do like the positive retention of the fairing using the cone shaped pin in the fwd side of the eyebolt hole.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Assy1_zpskkmi2f4z.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Assy2_zpsv5hiw5rc.png

Steve Melton

01-21-2018, 09:40 AM

will make a couple styles for these. will be low cost.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zpsexhnivtw.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap2_zpsb8iuqryi.png

Snowflake

01-21-2018, 09:50 AM

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180120_161716_zpsiju2ed3y.jpg
Looking at this photo, with the wheel pant below it, makes me wonder if the solution shouldn't be shaped more like the wheel pant. Approximating the pressure recovery shape isn't very difficult in SW...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/EqW1scATPQeGMIjgRATv6fHahyCJWVvjyrRaQjb09pkHcEyzFH 1KxhLr98M3egeMBG7K-h8Eh9F-CQivuU5poS3uAMj5mx_sto4lblkfXgMah-B4o6LzVkQZl4NNkT-E3CZGpIDcRg0Lw2mjOYCG5zIdSO7I9iczSwGwSqoySS2wvHmdk iBLhkebC-Qww07yScnD9PkyUzvVnZ4BSGD_HqCsTd8FuAIxE-EfCoRtreySPRd9-K-rvkNrrjkThksbvbFAFmwqh2biyutem4hfKORXyTp2QQv0GNbXB ZCoYgiRKDXsdLDbf5xgGlbt9iJTv5tAzyx727ALUqm2h7r839i XYsIl1VHq-zhRMT81y2mFoiS1CDmbntbrMzpjdnpfMMg5moFAgSpP7MYNyKi tnsqogaZ5MyNbmo2Qvgz0nKzccbXwDx4yBmi3ZX8Gd7F8_gW5A-YhoDx_zvzVPtFRFTwr7dBU3FsiOVfdM6eHu580PgV0sT3OvHZX Moun21wQdqnNSct__dtT8YG2NTOI7jACHxCl8t_FXZIH0GWKnW NUVuxJ-j9JYd0Iq8zGfBHXF7fB6FPcFrvGeHgOuM8JGcjZwl6QqTMtdXd Q415jW3-IEpj67Ys-Kna6EXRnCYyh8V0RDIM_Cfo0k2t60WnWqyb7fiEpxI7l4WnS6W I8EqE=w1412-h1110-no

Steve Melton

01-21-2018, 10:03 AM

the shape could be different. this shape fits the internals efficiently. I blended it slightly since the installed photo. Wicking loctite 290 works well for the threaded section and has proved to be safe for plastics.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/xsect_zpsfoz7e2ze.png

Steve Melton

01-24-2018, 03:12 PM

So, Amanda and I were test fitting fairings and we concluded that the eyebolt threaded distance variation from the wing skin was too much to deal with using a simple cone. Some folks thread these more than others. She wants a tang. So there it is. Getting closer.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsnwaxlose.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsz9rbtolr.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpsk1lnspyi.png

maybe just for fun, I'll send this out to a tool shop to get a quote.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zpsznaep9hp.png

Steve Melton

01-27-2018, 05:17 AM

this RV14 owner seats the tie down eyebolt completely to have a secure fit. it is probably the best installation. I don't seat the eyebolt on my RV9 completely as I leave a slight gap. the fairing works well with both of these eyebolt installations. .... I've watched this airplane thru the entire build, it is excellent.

RV14 coming on scene in the Spring. Checkout the stitching on the painted stars. Amazing!
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2389_zpsap8yq5j6.jpg

RV14 eyebolt seated against the skin
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2393_zpsvez2nsuk.jpg

RV14 fairing install
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2400_zpsiipphnbx.jpg

RV14 fairing install
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2407_zps4v6czfhp.jpg

RV14 fairing install
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2410_zpswbrbb081.jpg

Steve Melton

01-27-2018, 05:20 AM

I don't seat the eyebolt completely as I leave a slight gap.

RV9 install, eyebolt not completely seated. this is my aircraft.
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2383_zps6fzlg8lc.jpg

RV9 install
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2378_zps2dbswkkq.jpg

RV9 install
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2362_zpsvoiua5ur.jpg

RV9 install, plunger retracted for install/removal
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2371_zpsywmtirhe.jpg

Steve Melton

01-27-2018, 05:28 AM

I closed an axial dimension buy adjusting the fillet on the fwd cone to prevent any possible binding, beefed up the plunger slightly and added a chamfer to facilitate printing ease. I'm happy with it. No need to look under to remove or install the fairing, it is easily installed or removed by feel with one hand in about a second. The fairing is toleranced to accept some wear and should have a long life.

A subtle observation while flying yesterday is that there is less overall wind noise with the RV9 fairings I have installed (the flap bracket fairings had the most effect) and I am faster.

Amanda is good at making these and she will post them to her website.

The uncompressed spring is actually longer than is shown in the pictures.

Final config

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/xsect1_zpst6tybosf.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/side%20view_zpsgwphkg3a.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/bottom%20view_zpstyu747mx.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/top%20view_zpsbon8wpsr.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/iso_zpsizee93ps.png

humptybump

01-27-2018, 06:14 AM

Steve - this is Amanda?s site, correct?

https://www.rvplasticparts.com

Steve Melton

01-27-2018, 06:29 AM

yep, that's it. she is a business woman wannabe. her prime motivation is aquarium fish.

Bill Boyd

01-27-2018, 07:05 AM

Hoping Amanda will have a full set of -10 hinge and drain fairings on the shelf by the time I'm ready ;)

She has 'til about 2024 on that request :eek:

Snowflake

01-27-2018, 12:20 PM

Steve Melton

01-27-2018, 02:47 PM

Steve, which orientation are you printing that in? Top surface on the bed? And what kind of supports are working best for you? It looks like that might be fun to clean out the support structure after the printing is done.

yes, top surface on bed. 45 deg support with some offset and it removes easily. Amanda prints and assembles these. I'm flying with a set Amanda made. She installed them on my plane with one hand blindfolded. For me, I am having fun just watching her grow up. Where does the time go? She told me that she thought it was amazing that I built an airplane. I told her there are a lot of amazing people building airplanes and that I needed some help along the way because it's not easy.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2426_zpsoiwlgtnd.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2425_zpsw5qy8crq.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/100_4766_zpsj5ar6xfz.jpg

Steve Melton

01-28-2018, 07:30 PM

I don't know how much good a fairing would do at the aft location but it looks good. I may contour the fairing sides and keep it there.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2492_zpskvckweax.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2482_zpsiwxewtel.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2477_zpsq7vhqd5i.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2469_zpsedsrnsra.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2462_zpsqniflejm.jpg

Steve Melton

01-28-2018, 07:32 PM

secure

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2456_zps7m4h2x4z.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2451_zpszieeqo1m.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2447_zpsvow6sn3y.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2444_zpsdfwwgowh.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2440_zpspgwkfw3r.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2434_zps5ry4ojqa.jpg

Steve Melton

01-28-2018, 07:42 PM

HF jack with loose pin. Allows rotation on the ball but will not slip off. there are probably other ways to do this but this is my simple method and I have given it plenty of abuse to know it works.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2504_zps3q8w441p.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2498_zps1jplz2wn.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2499_zps6wrdzqah.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2508_zpsoqubwwc8.jpg

David Paule

01-28-2018, 07:51 PM

How about the rudder horn and stops?

Dave

Steve Melton

01-29-2018, 03:47 AM

How about the rudder horn and stops?

Dave

yes, that could be a product. thank you.

**************

you know, I am suffering from an adverse effect of being faster. Even with my oil cooler completely taped off, I can't get my oil temp much above 170F at 5C OAT. I'm finding better numbers in cruise climb too. Everything is faster.

Steve Melton

01-30-2018, 09:56 AM

ok, aero guys, this fairing bridges the gap between the fuse and rudder slightly, any aero benefit for this? if so, how could it be better?

the boundary layer is thick back here so this fairing will be only 1/2 effective as compared to the fwd underside of the wind location.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2477_zpsq7vhqd5i.jpg

aparchment

01-30-2018, 11:19 AM

Steve,
How about something over the cable that fairs the clevis and attach bolt/nut? It would have a slot in the side just like the clevis.

ok, aero guys, this fairing bridges the gap between the fuse and rudder slightly, any aero benefit for this? if so, how could it be better?

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2477_zpsq7vhqd5i.jpg

Steve Melton

01-30-2018, 03:05 PM

Steve,
How about something over the cable that fairs the clevis and attach bolt/nut? It would have a slot in the side just like the clevis.

you're right on. that bolt is outside the fuse boundary layer in the flow stream. I think I can do something with it. looks as if it may need a slight angle. thank you.

Steve Melton

01-31-2018, 04:45 AM

you're right on. that bolt is outside the fuse boundary layer in the flow stream. I think I can do something with it. looks as if it may need a slight angle. thank you.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/boundary%20layer_zpsntobming.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/BC1_zpsmu2f67cj.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2469_zpsedsrnsra.jpg

Steve Melton

02-04-2018, 06:08 PM

some clevis work. I not sure if I can better the original but will have a look at a fairing.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/clevis%20cap1_zpscxi2qzie.png

Steve Melton

02-04-2018, 06:09 PM

the tail is a 3D surface so I thought I would try the scanning camera.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN25181_zpsnbcngpmx.jpg

aparchment

02-05-2018, 11:42 AM

Steve Melton

02-05-2018, 07:28 PM

Steve,

Is that a projector that you are using to display a known pattern on the surface so the 3D scanner can track better, or are you doing photogrammetry with multiple cameras?

Looking forward to seeing the clevis bolt fairing concept.

Antony

just one camera. the projector flashes black and white stripes at multiple angles to generate a surface. I'm just getting started with it so not too much to report.

blackbeard10

02-06-2018, 07:46 AM

Great work Steve. What camera and software are you using? Exporting scan to
stl file? Are you able to work inside Solidworks to use the contours that you will have recorded to make a part that near perfectly adapts? The open source softwares for imaging into ply files and the files that are used for clean up and conversion are all very intricate and have a fairly high learning curve. Not to mention the ram, CPU, GPU requirements to avoid lengthy processing times.
The superb paint job on your airplane with its high gloss finish will no doubt create some issues with imaging. How are you dealing with reflections?
Enough questions. Keep up the good work and be nice to Shawn who took over my hangar.
Mark

Steve Melton

02-06-2018, 09:27 AM

Steve Melton

02-10-2018, 03:07 AM

this may be worth a look. not much clamp on the clevis, if any. I suppose some adhesive could be used. plan to bend these downwards to fit the bar angle and add some fairing taper.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpstubmtoyy.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsj1fagilr.png

Snowflake

02-10-2018, 09:41 AM

That looks like it was fun to play around with in Solidworks, but honestly they look so small that I find a hard time believing they'll give you the required 3kts per modification... :)

Walt

02-10-2018, 11:01 AM

I'd like to mount a Garmin GDU470 on the passenger side with something like this, is that possible?
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/11-07310.jpg

Saville

02-10-2018, 11:28 AM

One idea I had was a fixture for a GoPro which had mirror holder that rotated, and a method to screw the fixture into one of the tie-down/jack points..

The camera is looking down but there's a 45 degree angled mirror so what it sees is a horizontal view. Then with a (bluetooth?) signal the mirror can be rotated through 360 degrees so you can look forward, aft, out the wingtip, towards the fuselage.

rv7charlie

02-10-2018, 01:31 PM

Saville

02-10-2018, 03:19 PM

Or, you could just
http://diytripods.com/gopro-pan-tilt-remote-control-fixture/

What fun is that? ;)

Actually looks like to moves a little to fast. But yeah that will do it. I thought that moving the mirror might make for a lighter system.

Here is a homebrew system that doesn't look too bad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTzgsmA4Rqc

They even rigged it with a head tracker so that the camera follows where you look (though they don't show you how that's done).

rv7charlie

02-10-2018, 03:48 PM

The mount is just following the joystick. Move it slower, and the camera moves slower. That's achievable with a longer stick, or a multi-turn pot for each axis, or...

RVbySDI

02-10-2018, 05:45 PM

I'd like to mount a Garmin GDU470 on the passenger side with something like this, is that possible?
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/11-07310.jpg
Hello Walt,
I have my GDU 470 mounted in my panel. I actually replaced a 695 with the 470. Sorry I don't have a pic of the installation at this time I can post.

I am sure you are interested in the canted capability of what you are showing in your example but I will say in the RV I don't think it is crucial to have it tilted. I have an 8.4" GRT HX display directly in front of the passenger. It is still very easy to see even though it is not tilted toward the pilot. As for the 470, the hole I had for the 695 was the perfect size for the 470. The bracket supplied with the unit fits behind the panel and 4 screws on the corners hold it in place very securly. There was no modification needed at all when I swapped them out.

I am sure you have a different situation but I love how the 470 installed in my panel. I will try to post some pics when able.

Steve Melton

02-10-2018, 07:02 PM

Hello Walt,
I have my GDU 470 mounted in my panel. I actually replaced a 695 with the 470. Sorry I don't have a pic of the installation at this time I can post.

I am sure you are interested in the canted capability of what you are showing in your example but I will say in the RV I don't think it is crucial to have it tilted. I have an 8.4" GRT HX display directly in front of the passenger. It is still very easy to see even though it is not tilted toward the pilot. As for the 470, the hole I had for the 695 was the perfect size for the 470. The bracket supplied with the unit fits behind the panel and 4 screws on the corners hold it in place very securly. There was no modification needed at all when I swapped them out.

I am sure you have a different situation but I love how the 470 installed in my panel. I will try to post some pics when able.

maybe a mount with a hinge to allow two positions, straight and tilted towards the pilot.

Steve Melton

02-12-2018, 05:37 PM

needs some tweaking, then bam, time to fly!

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180212_172145_zpssnatrhlz.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180212_172231_zps27eimqo9.jpg

Steve Melton

02-17-2018, 07:45 PM

the more I looked at this it is apparent the off angle of the cable to the rudder bar will wear the components. the upper clevis aft outer hole edge and the forward upper alum bar hole edge and aft lower bar hole edge. I added a lube hole to the fwd upper to fairing to be able to add lubricant easily with a spray tube like LPS or one a drop or two of heavier lube with a syringe. the lubricant will pass under the bolt head to the shank. still working the cotter pin attachment method and need to adjust the clearance of the fairings to the bar but some progress. I'm really trying to stop dragging my nuts thru the air stream.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsllqn1yt1.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsyidtawkc.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zps560qkuix.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2532_zpsglxjvhkd.jpg

RV7A Flyer

02-18-2018, 01:50 AM

Seems like you're missing the much larger drag-inducing vertical portion right g html next to it. I wonder if others anything that can be done there?

Snowflake

02-18-2018, 09:01 AM

Seems like you're missing the much larger drag-inducing vertical portion right g html next to it. I wonder if others anything that can be done there?

Or a fairing to go over the rudder stop fittings, even... Hmm...

rv7charlie

02-18-2018, 09:31 AM

Steve Melton

02-18-2018, 12:59 PM

not too bad. the lubrication method works well. no more mess when lubing this area and I verified the lube washes down the bolt shank. nut is min clearance. special tool print for nut install finger tight, then cotter pin. still need to adjust the fillet for clevis sides. it must be a compound radius. the clevis model is not simple to model, it is an engineered part and somewhat elegant. does anyone know who designed this clevis?

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180218_111850_zps02culos2.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180218_111920_zps0zq3tk51.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180218_111911_zps4yyrjs7k.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180218_112106_zpsgdcbusu9.jpg

hgerhardt

02-18-2018, 01:00 PM

the more I looked at this it is apparent the off angle of the cable to the rudder bar will wear the components. the upper clevis aft outer hole edge and the forward upper alum bar hole edge and aft lower bar hole edge....

Just install a thin stainless -3 AN washer in between the clevis legs to take up the excess clearance, either on top or below the rudder horn. I didn't care for that slop when I built my -6 and have had washers in there for the 740 hours it's been flying.

If you install washers, then you can easily use those adorable fairings!

Steve Melton

02-18-2018, 01:44 PM

If you're going to work in that area, why not just extend the cable exit fairing aft to cover that whole area; rudder stop, rudder control horn (angle), etc. Would obviously need to be two pieces; one on the fuselage and the other on the rudder.

the items within an inch of the aft fuselage skin are swallowed in the boundary layer. there is limited benefit in fairing those items. the clevis however is in the free air stream.

Snowflake

02-19-2018, 07:56 AM

the items within an inch of the aft fuselage skin are swallowed in the boundary layer. there is limited benefit in fairing those items.

Ah, but it will *look* faster with them... And that will help your daughter sell more fairings... :)

RV7A Flyer

02-19-2018, 11:54 AM

the items within an inch of the aft fuselage skin are swallowed in the boundary layer. there is limited benefit in fairing those items. the clevis however is in the free air stream.

An inch is a *lot*...I'm not an aeronautical engineer, so perhaps someone can explain/confirm/deny this? I didn't think the boundary layer was *that* thick at any point on a relatively clean surface...

just curious about the physics here.

Steve Melton

02-19-2018, 06:33 PM

secure, all in one solution. I like to pop these off for show and tell. no need to look under. take a second to remove with one hand. beautiful.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180219_190033_zpsyhh3jamr.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180219_190105_zpsjfgckjaa.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180219_190321_zpsksbxhmj1.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180219_190347_zpsdvzmcwbs.jpg

Steve Melton

02-19-2018, 06:41 PM

cotter pin installed, one side is long. setting up a race with a 200 hp RV-14A against a faired 160 hp RV-9A. if I bait him up to 12.5K I may walk away.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180219_170617_zpswgbth6zk.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180219_170733_zpst4wdnxmr.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180219_174429_zpsbcyab7yh.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180219_174536_zpspt5plvye.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180219_185148_zpsq4jf2jve.jpg

Steve Melton

02-19-2018, 07:54 PM

this fairing may be scrapped. it just occurred to me that trapping the bolt head to move with the cable my cause bolt rotation in the rudder bar hole and cause wear. whereby leaving it free as original with minimum clamp may prevent rudder bar hole wear since the clevis will rotate on the bolt and not bolt rotation in the hole. I need to investigate but I think this is correct.

aparchment

02-21-2018, 08:39 AM

It's such an elegant solution though! Teflon tape to protect the bolt maybe?

this fairing may be scrapped. it just occurred to me that trapping the bolt head to move with the cable my cause bolt rotation in the rudder bar hole and cause wear. whereby leaving it free as original with minimum clamp may prevent rudder bar hole wear since the clevis will rotate on the bolt and not bolt rotation in the hole. I need to investigate but I think this is correct.

Steve Melton

02-21-2018, 07:02 PM

not as bad as I thought. note: I have light springs that add some tension to my rudder cables.

I set up a test by placing a dot on the fwd side of bolt and swung the rudder. the right side has the fairing and the bolt is trapped so the bolt rotates in the hole. then I tested the left side in the same manner. the left side is very light seat to the first available slot in the nut. to my surprise, the bolt rotated in the hole. I tested it several times and had the same result. then I lubed the left side with LPS1 and retested with the same results. then I took the nut completely off and the clevis rotated on the bolt and the bolt rotated slightly and walked around to different angular positions in the hole. my take away is that for the past 600 flight hours, my periodic lubrication did not prevent the bolt from rotating in the hole. the bolt has always rotated but hasn't caused much wear. I believe periodically lubricating this area (once every 10 flights or so) prevented the bolt from wearing the rudder bar hole. I'm going to install fairings to both sides and finish the flight testing and lubricate with the dedicated fairing hole because that will put the oil exactly where it is needed, to the fwd side of the bolt at the rudder bar hole. I may be inclined to lube these more often since the dedicated oil hole in the fairing doesn't make a mess. a quick tap on the spray nozzle and it's done.

testing condition
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180219_185148_zpsq4jf2jve.jpg

right side, bolt rotates in the hole:
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180221_181114_zpsbcz4x2xb.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180221_181133_zpsyvho8w1u.jpg

left side (nut on, original last flight condition) bolt rotates in the hole:
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180221_181200_zpsmqltshfu.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180221_181237_zps9gocjsgq.jpg

left side (nut off) bolt walks around to many positions but clevis primarily rotates on the bolt:
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180221_181841_zps6opbozqg.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180221_181858_zps09mug8ux.jpg

Steve Melton

02-21-2018, 07:03 PM

rudder bar and clevis holes:
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180221_182153_zpsfo6piaiv.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180221_184122_zpsqmkeixl5.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180221_184333_zpseualydrh.jpg

vernon smith

02-21-2018, 08:18 PM

Maybe a little larger clevis with an oil lite bushing? Better yet, a miniature sealed needle bearing? Carefully check the load ratings for the needle bearing and frequently check what they are doing to the bolt shank. Probably a good place to use a SHCS which are usually about 55 Rockwell and would not be forced to rotate like your hex head bolt is. Possibly a SHCS would solve the problem in itself?

Steve Melton

02-21-2018, 08:29 PM

clevis bolt with a flat head would also be an option but more difficult to lubricate the bolt shank. the cotter pin is a tight fit to the side and would still cause bolt rotation so better to have the hex head bolt drive the rotation if it's going to occur. with lube I think the current fairing is the best option for the original as built configuration. at some point I will probably need to add a bushing as others have done but hopefully that is several thousand hours away.

Steve Melton

02-21-2018, 08:34 PM

some custom fairings on the machine tonight. should finish by the morning.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN25331_zps3dmupgbc.jpg

Hartstoc

02-22-2018, 08:18 AM

Steve- I was actually in the process of hand-forming foam cores for something very similar when I discovered your post- Nice work! QUESTION- what is the secret for direct posting of images like yours in VAF threads? A jpeg is for sure worth a thousand words...Otis

Steve Melton

02-22-2018, 10:00 AM

I think there is a link on the upper left of the home page. I use photobucket for picture hosting but my time is limited with them. I do not recommend them because they have jacked the prices and I am sure my photos will go blank some day.

these are speed mods for the RV-9 flap brackets. I'm looking forward to my RV-14A (200 hp) race.

Steve Melton

02-23-2018, 07:31 PM

ready for testing. I'm planning to try to add a button to cover the nut but it's a tight fit, not sure if it is possible or even worth it. a very nice look. uses the same AN-6 bolt but no washer. the lower fairing acts as the washer. lightly snugged to the first nut cotter pint slot after contact (same as my original fit before fairing), so they are not very tight but seem to provide a good fit. no adhesive.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180223_200103_zpse1knxcaz.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180223_200020_zpsxiinweq2.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180223_195608_zpsyno24xvi.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180223_195245_zpsyybe1e2l.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180223_195337_zpsmxnu2kha.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180223_195428_zpsadyunowu.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180223_195228_zpsyssrdz3q.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180223_195117_zpsszhonnmv.jpg

logansc

02-23-2018, 08:48 PM

Steve: Your aerodynamic upgrades are beginning to take root all over your airplane! Any comprehensive airspeed testing with all of them installed at the same time yet?

Steve Melton

02-23-2018, 08:59 PM

multiplying like rabbets. no dedicated testing yet. maybe I'll get to that when things slow down. I think your approach would be correct. take all fairings off and test then reinstall all and retest. for now, all I know is that the airspeed indicator says I'm faster overall.

Steve Melton

02-24-2018, 05:21 PM

finally getting around to removing the tape and securing these aft fairings (grey to white) with a dab of goop. upon inspection, all fairings look good. no signs of wear or distress on anything.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180224_162814_zpsnegukdeo.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180224_174243_zpsiz6q7cb2.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180224_183104_zpsnmd0fd15.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180224_174213_zpsxlst8ezh.jpg

Vlad

02-25-2018, 06:59 AM

Hey Steve your rudder pedal extensions did you print them or bought elsewhere? They definitely beat mine. :)

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20170318_181911_zpsrvjorzhb.jpg

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/N666BK/Easing%20the%20maintenance/6a60fe58.jpg (http://s447.photobucket.com/user/N666BK/media/Easing%20the%20maintenance/6a60fe58.jpg.html)

Steve Melton

02-25-2018, 07:53 AM

logansc

02-25-2018, 09:57 PM

Looking forward to the testing then! A minor recommendation, how about considering a new, separate thread for reporting the results? Might keep the confusion down a bit. Also, be sure to nail down your original configuration airspeed numbers as carefully as you can. Should hold down some of the noise when your final "aerodynamically enhanced" numbers either sound too good to be true (to some) and not nearly good enough (to some others)!

Lee...

JKintzle

02-28-2018, 03:21 PM

Hey Steve,
Just wanted to give a "non-scientific" speed update from my perspective. On Sunday I flew two 45 minute flights. The first from E. Kansas to Central Missouri (5,500 ft msl). The 2nd leg back to the Kansas City area (8,500 ft msl). Each leg was approximately 45 minutes. I had just installed two fuel fairings and two wing tie-down fairings.

My normal true airspeed generally averages 142-143 knots (24 rpm, 24 man. press). On the two legs flown I averaged 145 knots (fluctuated between 144-147) true airspeed both ways (24 rpm, 24 man. pressure). I was pleased in picking up approximately 2-3 knots with just those 4 small fairings added.

Like I said, not a scientific speed test, but it is noticeably faster than what I normally have seen, after three years of flying this plane. I just received the modified flap fairings in the mail today and look forward to getting those installed and expect another positive variance. Will be ordering the rudder (clevis bolt) fairings as well when you get them up on the website. In addition to speed gained, the fairings improve the aesthetics of the plane.
Great work! Jeff

Steve Melton

02-28-2018, 05:19 PM

cool beans! let the ponies run.

Steve Melton

03-03-2018, 04:49 AM

small button on rudder clevis fairing. we will see if it survives flight testing. needs some adjustment.

tail tie down fairing is looking better. contoured fit.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180302_180600_zpsartstz11.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180302_181005_zpsplgt8uvj.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180302_180733_zpsggxgbxqx.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180302_183808_zpserinftja.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180302_182940_zps0sjcogff.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180302_182927_zps8rqimrfx.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180302_172640_zps2jt23bib.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180302_173752_zpst5i9h0vp.jpg

Steve Melton

03-08-2018, 08:11 PM

button added and flight tested. it's small but workable.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180308_191204_zpsln3hruhh.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180308_191102_zpsovltoofu.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180308_192553_zpsbsbdtklk.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180308_192523_zpskifvkm6x.jpg

trim the long side of the cotter pin as the one next to my finger
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180308_193449_zpsqixhgvvj.jpg

Steve Melton

03-08-2018, 08:14 PM

install nut using the printed tool. tighten the nut to the cotter pin slot past contact. that's all that is needed. this was my original nut installation method without fairings. no change.
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180218_111911_zps4yyrjs7k.jpg

position the cotter pin long side up
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180308_193653_zpsct31y78q.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180308_193929_zpsu6hkwh8n.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180308_194105_zpszhirw11i.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180308_194622_zps7myelbji.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180308_194635_zps1mjqpaab.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180308_194704_zpsoxldnm3g.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180308_195602_zpszeimz3yr.jpg

lube at provided hole. the lube track extends under the bolt head to the bolt shank, where it is needed.
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180308_194813_zpsiczqnqyi.jpg

Steve Melton

03-12-2018, 07:46 PM

grey to be a different color from the white wing tie down fairings. I'm not sure how I got that little chip in the side of the fuse but it's bugging me.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2553_zpsijje8j2g.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2560_zpshnnoa2jl.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2564_zpsmiezd8yd.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2583_zpsz4zuk6mf.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2555_zps4vlhieku.jpg

aparchment

03-13-2018, 08:15 AM

Nice work Steve! Thanks for continuing to bring nicely engineered pieces to market.
Antony

Steve Melton

03-13-2018, 06:08 PM

thanks for the kind words. these are my form of artwork.

Steve Melton

03-13-2018, 06:09 PM

sketching out. these first trials are going to look like the JDAirparts version to get a back to back weight comparison. JDAirparts rudder pedal extension = 72 grams.

option 2 could be a single bar version so that it doesn't trap mud.

option 3 could be multiple length extensions for a custom fit. such as distance from the bar... .5, .6, .7, .8. the one in the photo = .52 inch.

option 4 could be making these over center for a snap fit than then clamped with bolts. a safety feature.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsrhkw6pbh.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zps6xhnz4my.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpsvsbe5ruu.png

over center snap fit with 10-32 self locking nuts
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zpszzmhe1ya.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap5_zpskedit1of.png

no mud version, these will be printed hollow with internal reinforcement for both strength and light weight
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap7_zpstdwimqy1.png

extended version, .65 inch from bar
http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap8_zpson3jo7ht.png

Jpm757

03-15-2018, 11:55 PM

Saville

03-16-2018, 09:59 AM

Here's another idea if you are interested:

Get the dimensions of Pat Hatch's "The Ultimate TRB":

http://www.phaviation.com/?wpsc-product=the-ultimate-trb-hub

Print a box with the following characteristics:

The pc board sits in the box such that the connectors are exposed out the "left" and "right" side of the rectangular box, but the rest of the PC board is in the box.

The main "container" has 4 holes in the bottom which line up with the 4 mounting holes on the PC board. The main container is mounted to the airplane with 4 screws going through the PC board; through the 3D box: through some sheet metal and into nutplates mounted on the backside of the sheet metal.

The flat lid faces out, is fastened with 4 screws, and is removable without having to remove the PC board from the airplane.

The holes for the connectors on either side can be open to the top edge so that the PC board can be easily removed and replaced if necessary.

Ron77

03-16-2018, 12:00 PM

How about a 2-piece fairing for a monopole antenna to convert it into a blade type?

Ron B.

Steve Melton

03-16-2018, 04:17 PM

A fairing similar to the other ones you have made, but for a GoPro would be awesome. The GoPro cube shape doesn?t seem very aerodynamic, lots of guys put them outside their airplanes, and I don?t believe anybody makes one.

good idea. appreciate the comment. I made one from foam and duct tape years ago but it was only good for about five flights.

Steve Melton

03-16-2018, 04:28 PM

good idea. I could use one of those too since I use Pat's board. it has been flawless. appreciate the comment.

Here's another idea if you are interested:

Get the dimensions of Pat Hatch's "The Ultimate TRB":

http://www.phaviation.com/?wpsc-product=the-ultimate-trb-hub

Print a box with the following characteristics:

The pc board sits in the box such that the connectors are exposed out the "left" and "right" side of the rectangular box, but the rest of the PC board is in the box.

The main "container" has 4 holes in the bottom which line up with the 4 mounting holes on the PC board. The main container is mounted to the airplane with 4 screws going through the PC board; through the 3D box: through some sheet metal and into nutplates mounted on the backside of the sheet metal.

The flat lid faces out, is fastened with 4 screws, and is removable without having to remove the PC board from the airplane.

The holes for the connectors on either side can be open to the top edge so that the PC board can be easily removed and replaced if necessary.

ArlingtonRV

03-16-2018, 04:29 PM

+1 For the GoPro fairing. I have the camera mounted with a PlaneAround mount using Wing Tip screws. Works OK, but I think a Fairing, particularly if it were isolated from airframe (and aerodynamic) vibration, would be fantastic.

Steve Melton

03-16-2018, 04:34 PM

you're temping me, as I keep staring at mine. I tried to fair my lower dog leg wire antenna but it became unstable and would not have survived to have a long life. I'll probably give the upper monopole a try in the future. I should be more stable than the lower dog leg wire. appreciate the comment.

How about a 2-piece fairing for a monopole antenna to convert it into a blade type?

Ron B.

Steve Melton

03-17-2018, 08:46 AM

metal slotted ruder pedal extension vs 3D printed non-slotted weight comparison. this is the fwd portion only. the 3D printed version is a snap fit and clamped using self locking nuts. on track to meet the goal of half the weight and cost. more surface area for my feet.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2589_zpsgt6d20ze.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2590_zpsthkzudjf.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap7_zpstdwimqy1.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zpszzmhe1ya.png

Steve Melton

03-20-2018, 05:07 AM

development delayed because of printer availability. second printer ordered to have a total of two available.

Steve Melton

03-20-2018, 04:15 PM

first user installed flap bracket fairing, position 6. he mentioned the others installed same or better. all the pictures of position 6... Jeff Kintzle. awaiting a flight test report.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_0111_zpsqfdhiaih.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_0110_zpscytavybd.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_0108_zpsuffd8t3w.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_0106_zpsiybeojih.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_0104_zpsmpggtafj.jpg

Steve Melton

03-23-2018, 05:19 AM

he is working thru a starter issue....

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_0157_zpsjgsrojwn.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_0158_zpsox66zxhk.jpeg

Steve Melton

03-23-2018, 07:53 PM

some progress, proto2 weight comparison

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180323_171321_zpsof7fjbxw.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180323_171346_zpscjjlfasy.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180323_170117_zpsnmjy2omc.jpg

friction strip, cut 1/2 inch wide

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180323_163836_zpsamw5nxjt.jpg

estimated 400 lb applied, no issues. alum tape = powder coating thickness

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180323_164940_zpsomp4c66v.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180323_165340_zpsp9bzk54q.jpg

over center design provides two methods for clamp, 1. the over center ensures they will not become free if a clamp fails, 2. the clamps use self locking nuts

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180323_165132_zps3cqwqedd.jpg

Steve Melton

03-23-2018, 07:58 PM

snug

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180323_172235_zps4laxrem1.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180323_172733_zpsfkauzjkv.jpg

over snug, maximum applied torque, no issues.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180323_172401_zpsxikmiml5.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180323_172907_zpsntge2aen.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180323_172926_zpsvcnsgegk.jpg

good fit. better feel when barefoot. more rotational resistance than JD Air when fitted. I plan to replace all and orient my rudder pedal hydraulic cylinder bolts to the opposite orientation to be correct. it is lighter, less expensive and has a dual clamp method and it will not collect mud.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180323_192757_zpsy4h2iwa0.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180323_194133_zpsftairvcv.jpg

Steve Melton

03-23-2018, 08:54 PM

a couple model shots

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zpsaiifiltl.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpspskdtvj6.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap3_zpsxcakhxqe.png

10-32 screw, Stainless steel 316 corrosion resistant reduced length .125 less than JD Air screw length, slightly less aft protrusion

uses standard AN3 thin nyloc nut

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap4_zpszuwszps6.png

Steve Melton

03-24-2018, 08:03 PM

this is approaching completion. total weight per set (pilot side) = 70 grams for the 0.52 extension length. same weight for the co-pilot side set. :)

the screws will be stainless steel 316 rather than the black oxide shown.

I can install these from a sitting position without having to crawl under. Use a T-handle allen wrench and a long piece of tape. I'll try to get a photo.

choose the extension you wish for a custom fit. just like buying a shoe. Amanda can do that because she prints on demand and now has a couple print machines. I think she priced these around $40 a set.

for me, the 0.52 extension length works well for a dress shoe but never felt right for tennis shoes. everyone is different and will have their own preference.

Pedal extension offset from bar options:
0.50
0.52 similar to JD Air
0.55
0.60
0.65
0.70
0.75
0.80
0.85
0.90
0.95
1.00

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180324_133602_zpssegedj8x.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180324_133708_zpslcxooitl.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180324_133551_zpsc7s6k6yc.jpg

Steve Melton

04-02-2018, 06:51 PM

I have been skiing in Colorado for a week. Afterwards I was bummed because my youngest daughter was blowing me away. After a couple of yard sales I said that's enough and I slowed down to ski with mother. Now that I reflect, I did my job, teaching the next generation to exceed me. I hope to be able to continue to do that.

Trying a few fits with the rudder pedal extensions. I find I I don't need to apply the bolt clamps for trial fits because the self clamp is good enough. I'll fly with this and wait until I find the optimum extension and then apply the bolted clamps. I can install these from the seated position.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180402_200116_zpsmhc02tbs.jpg

Steve Melton

04-05-2018, 07:50 PM

after a couple of flights and landings in crosswinds the left rudder pedal extension rotated on the bar. this was with no bolted clamps in place, only the self clamp of the extension providing the support. no issue but it got me thinking about securing against rotation. here is my first idea.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zpsefiuvflq.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap2_zpsrqzyfgao.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2604_zpsgdrswd8f.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2605_zpscvvohv4n.jpg

Snowflake

04-06-2018, 07:50 AM

Maybe if you pointed the snap opening towards the floor, instead of towards the firewall? That would give you more material to work with near the ends.

Also, why not extend the entire part the width of the pedal? I find that I fly with my feet pushing near the corners of the pedals most of the time... Both for comfort, and because pushing there I don't add brake. If I need brake, I bring my toes closer to the center of the pedal.

Ron RV8

04-06-2018, 09:56 AM

For what it's worth...

Full length plus half the upright tubes, suitably notched could not turn. Snap into position may be sufficient. Various extension lengths may then be possible without hazard of turning on the pedal...

Steve Melton

04-06-2018, 07:48 PM

appreciate the comments. I remember early on having my feet at the edges in order to not to inadvertently apply brakes. adding the extensions solved that problem. with extensions, you can have your foot in middle or slightly to the outside for comfort to your point.

my model is does not include all of the brake features and adding half round up the sides would be difficult because of interference issues.

I was able to install the extension easily but with force I was able to fracture the anti-rotation feature at the rudder bar arm. I added fillets to the rudder bar arms to improve the model and added material where it is needed to strengthen the anti-rotation feature. I'll rerun the rotation test.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap3_zpsjbx6kf4c.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap2_zpsxsypcfnd.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zpsemxvltyq.png

Bill Boyd

04-06-2018, 09:42 PM

I'm assuming when you get to production one could buy a set of the highest offset thickness and then file/sand to preference, right?

Snowflake

04-07-2018, 09:56 AM

Here's another suggestion, only possible because these are 3-D printed...

My Prusa 3D printer had a number of 3D printed parts for holding the tracks in place that the bed runs on. The tracks snapped into the parts like your footrest snaps onto the rudder pedal. But: the sneaky part is, the parts also had tracks in them that the tie wraps ran through... Completely closed tracks that couldn't be machined or molded on a conventional part, but easy to do when you're 3D printing. During assembly, you just start pushing the tie-wrap into one hole, and eventually the free end pops out of the other hole... Automatically routed, and completely hidden.

You could have hidden slots like that in these pedals, and run either tie wraps or hose clamps internally, out-of-sight. The only visible portion would be on the back of the pedal where the screw to tighten it would hide. That would let you increase the clamping force, and still keep an attractive product.

To increase the friction between the part and the pedal, how about using a solution that bicycle accessory manufacturers have used forever... A strip of rubber clamped between the part and the tube? An old inner tube cut into strips would make great friction pads. Combined with the hose clamp (and maybe even a tie-wrap would be adequate) you might be able to avoid the visually ugly anti-rotation extension... :)

Ron RV8

04-07-2018, 10:29 AM

my model is does not include all of the brake features and adding half round up the sides would be difficult because of interference issues.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap3_zpsjbx6kf4c.png

So - slight paradigm shift... similar to the anti rotation addition shown here...

How about continuing the entire "pedal extension", right out to both uprights plus 50% of uprights...

- remove the bolt tabs
- beef up top of extension for anti rotation
- U shape comes from the top of pedal, open at bottom
- bring U shape around pedal tubing so that it snaps in place
- alternate option integral channel for gear clamp per Snowflake's suggestion

Potential advantages...

- cannot rotate
- cannot slide laterally
- varying extension lengths practical
- extends full width of pedal

Steve Melton

04-07-2018, 06:18 PM

this photo shows the install. left hand side is original. right hand side includes anti-rotation feature. both of these have bolts installed.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180407_145847_zpszssd3qgw.jpg

bench testing these. the plastic extension has slightly more rotational grip than the metal extension. I found by placing the anti-skid tape towards to the top of the bore rather than the center improved grip. the anti-rotation feature is a safety measure and provides positive lateral placement. still has enough clearance for anti-splat gust lock. note: whoever did the welding on this old rudder pedal bar did an excellent job.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180407_135339_zpst589rkrt.jpg

however the angle is not optimal and in my bare feet I could feel the upper edge. so that needs to be corrected by orientation angle and increasing the edge fillet.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180407_151448_zpszxriu1t5.jpg

HAL Pilot

04-08-2018, 12:47 AM

I have been watching this thread with great anticipation for when I actually have a flying aircraft vs. a pile of sheet metal. I keep wondering what some kind of fairing behind the rudder horns vertical parts would help. right now they are just flat plates in the airstream. Small but if we are working on covering bolts why not?

Steve Melton

04-08-2018, 07:08 AM

some variation. it's all about the foot feel.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zpsdb0z8kxi.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap2_zpsov5drglk.png

Steve Melton

04-08-2018, 08:18 AM

reduced edges....." the roller "

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap3_zpsvdk7a0xt.png

gmohr

04-09-2018, 10:54 AM

Steve,

I was just curious what you are using to print these. I have just gotten
started 3D printing using a Creality CR-10 4S. Fun little hobby to go along
with my CNC hobby.

Steve Melton

04-09-2018, 04:11 PM

Steve,

I was just curious what you are using to print these. I have just gotten
started 3D printing using a Creality CR-10 4S. Fun little hobby to go along
with my CNC hobby.

using a couple Taz6

laz

04-09-2018, 06:47 PM

Steve I just purchased several Items from Amanda. I am very pleased with everything and would like to propose a new part for her business. The fuel vent lines on a RV8 are just tubes that stick out. If you were to make a fairing similar to the one on your fuel sump drains it could be used to put a bug screen around the vent and a aux intake in case that one blocks. Let me know it you think it is a gig deal to make or not.

Steve Melton

04-12-2018, 03:24 PM

Steve Melton

04-12-2018, 03:27 PM

the secondary anti-rotation feature has some unique geometry but the form fits the function. the primary anti-rotation feature are the clamps and anti-skid tape and they have proven to provide sufficient clamp, even more clamp than the metal extensions. the secondary anti-rotation feature is backup. the extension fit is an over center snap fit to bar. self locking nuts are used and SS316 screws to protect against corrosion. these are approximately half the weight of metal extensions. the actual bar width is more than depicted so the extensions fit slightly outboard and will allow for anti-splat gust lock if used.

the extension is rotated to an small angle to fit the foot angle.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zpsd6un0don.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap4_zpstnabb6qa.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap3_zpstowyj6jn.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap2_zps8uszhtsr.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap5_zpstkenzo9p.png

Steve Melton

04-13-2018, 09:02 PM

three profiles: flat, round, and split

of various extension lengths

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap3_zpskflmbxzo.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap2_zpsea6ybaco.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zpsi1oho0mv.png

Steve Melton

04-14-2018, 05:21 PM

a friend stopped by the hangar and wanted rudder pedal extensions since he was riding the brakes. even a light pressure on the brake pedal can cause the brakes to engage. he opted for .58 inch length extensions to achieve a custom fit and wanted the round profile.

these are the first round profile I printed. as they came off the machine. they look good.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2609_zpsfmsi4vtj.jpg

Steve Melton

04-14-2018, 06:21 PM

testing a set of .45 inch length extensions, flat style and tennis shoes. flat extension face angle to foot fit is better with the anti-rotation adjustment.

prototype, before angle adjustment.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180407_151448_zpszxriu1t5.jpg

after angle adjustment.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180414_114101_zpssqnxltfp.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180414_113859_zpsk5ltbm2s.jpg

my installation method is to snap the extension in place, insert bolts, install the clamp with the nut in place with a long piece of tape and hold tension on the tape until the bolt engages the nut. no need to crawl under.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180414_115642_zpslqjqrf0j.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180414_115812_zpsg1ai3xj6.jpg

Steve Melton

04-15-2018, 05:29 PM

feels good. light weight. secure.

edit.... looking at this again, this fellow's right brake pedal could be positioned further aft or maybe a washer added for offset on the right side or trimming the right side of the brake pedal slightly. the extensions should help prevent dragging the brakes.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180415_141822_zpskjpfwezf.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180415_141807_zps3ue8vqyv.jpg

Steve Melton

04-15-2018, 05:36 PM

flat profile

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180415_162627_zpsndu4pz8j.jpg

scard

04-15-2018, 05:39 PM

Steve, you need to get out from behind the computer and fly more. That carpet isn't supposed to look like the living room floor. Ask my airplane if you don't believe me :).

Steve Melton

04-15-2018, 06:57 PM

Steve, you need to get out from behind the computer and fly more. That carpet isn't supposed to look like the living room floor. Ask my airplane if you don't believe me :).

yeah, I am hoping to do more flying soon. I'm ready and so is the plane. You can blame Gil for my clean carpet. I bought some flexible vacuum widget he recommended. It works.

Snowflake

04-16-2018, 07:47 AM

Shouldn't the vents in the panel on the right side of this photo be bent out to make louvers?
How much air flow do you get through the slots when they're closed like that?

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180415_141807_zps3ue8vqyv.jpg

Steve Melton

04-18-2018, 04:56 PM

there was a problem with fit on the RV-14 hinge cover mod discovered last week with interference at the cover and the canopy hinge. added a scallop to the lower side. increased the insert lower chamfer. I believe we have it resolved. awaiting the flight testing, hopefully this week.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180418_172915_zpstqzhw6j5.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180418_171806_zpskumffq9c.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180418_171721_zpsg5gcu6nk.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180418_171703_zpsmr3qx64r.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap1_zpsowif1lrp.png

insert tool

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/cap2_zps6xmouhwj.png

Steve Melton

04-21-2018, 06:38 AM

minimum offset from bar = .4 inch
maximum offset from bar = .8 inch

length options:
0.4
0.45
0.50
0.52 same as JD Air
0.55
0.60
0.65
0.70
0.75
0.80

some min and max style variations

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/3_zpsqwuqeg21.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/9_zps6zgn7nx3.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/1_zpspzyz0rl9.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/2_zps6evtqo39.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/5_zpsewfrubje.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/6_zpsfwkmyeeb.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/7_zpsh6er0jxx.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/8_zpskvqyujhk.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/10_zpslhxxyoah.png

Steve Melton

04-21-2018, 01:06 PM

hinge covers look good and so does the airplane. nice job Bill.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180421_141601_zpssbanjzba.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180421_141615_zpsy3zdeerq.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180421_141946_zpstdhovqkp.jpg

Steve Melton

04-21-2018, 01:20 PM

well, after many tests with various rudder pedal extension styles and offset lengths. I have settled on flat and .52 inch length. another has said they prefer the round style (ease of foot pivot) and .55 inch length. so between 0.50 to 0.60 inch seems to be the typical offset length sweet spot.

offset length options:
0.4
0.45
0.50
0.52 same as JD Air
0.55
0.60
0.65
0.70
0.75
0.80

my final install for pilot side is flat, 0.52 offset length. I will install round style to the co-pilot side with same offset length to have comparison for other folks.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/IMG_20180421_114731_zpsgwfg6v4l.jpg

Steve Melton

04-27-2018, 08:08 PM

aileron wedgie. print these with the smooth side down to achieve a smooth airflow surface.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zps3zwwgn1l.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap2_zpsfdzvb1hi.png

goatflieg

04-28-2018, 02:05 AM

I designed this adapter to fit the Odyssey PC-680 battery in the stock Van's aft battery tray. CAD drawn and printed up by my Chapter 113 friend Oliver Reik.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/lF7EEEfaoxoRrKoo7b07ZnDVt8UpSDscltF8WLYKdF91Z3cany 48enfrqF5yxAMZGkiO3UxvrnMCMFEXHwSJoVHzPflTosJ9yGV4 XIOuW6dQ_nY3PiXYnDNjAcAwPYB6KKoj0Y_ecgZtxV6IVlmEDh DHOQTnTrcMd-tZx7txFvWLUNFBJDDdLk7_JtbAC9jZtYtVtSTPV9Snt1cDSqsu cqDcF-_JLZzSd-u1LjdE3EWPbkzu8Foqm0AqCPHEuJRemg8VkSSzATv0r9-8MvyAtsOTm9OtzkWuAPhsDspZzN4NqDA0p5E9sLZd7A9LPB_ui MRPlKs_jBsjY-6hfOe0dCMvAyUXDbuVPlL7WbDgYCkkLMxu97F8Nrn5lpz94kJt RZpyuWEjLmGaL18PFiqkmUgA7eX3BZF4j4kT3SJGjAqEp9SUMC k6k6hErw4o8UmobboOrFg_IxvmSSFkkXd94Mtsvp6Wx3z-O6rVynv8s72TkP-unZdf4nk4TDsfgDY7JIk2hNxyX6eq8RsrKqCtgyLAlLL9PXGHB 6C4C74K2FYLmbzmZXEwdOlQNHzhLqaPGIxA4Yc2oQkzhuOuAHr bo6T-0I8bOrLujU7LN7U=w856-h756-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/bS8vLMMz3iP4pcCDveuIBg8yaSA21ZKR1EG0yMGNg4Ao4wQSBm dYRj0tEO0zy0UtYYqrbdcUMhQzJZutSkMeQUplqNZJbrLCov4Z NwS4NvWuR0-i5uS8yD_393tb5T3zjhvk00Kfix7PfDUhLhkVZ3T4AKT8nOQ8K aVrf1THbOoNbzAcq0w0FgWpwShXHueYoe0BSnrA9XkSpPrKhTO LUiybjYxSQLBWXoDYD4mBDTfILCNNG6IwQkEhLIkezCzok2oXY e45FvqGCuig3Eo1uMUkXNOtgt5NbfVy02WQbfDVUYTha4qQ7y-sSc-eM5ezmwjZascP3mD6VvoJmTkly6hpSPN0WnTdw6XFOo6KEkytq OsiQmSFFhxtBQsdHzUqq2iB0clZaXBPkP8ppoK66AqGhl6iKKz Ao86iCtR5CygXkLCbEDEs6HoALM_h5AjM7c0AKzizjSYKYomPt 57sMG9qndYs0KPFj6mGpeOwwt1poCKtE8REd7UxEFAOe75JsyM VmiuTOCsoAiSeyjYRqTsYu4Xi_QQ6LlSdkM_94pJvsX4bwN2DC AdgE_Rgi8hHIFkO8vXIqLak9vXVvQULlmnW936oubKjZbn0HfE =w863-h591-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8SlHUXyXvxuuL1lUpwdMaMe81_JZosGpfljwh0uRpwLhUAnyIC E5_yQYBBjTonm28Z9XtXZzoUuTkKRE_3pNkBtaSOmIQiEAEd7m b_BKhzlQrmS2VwtqVbXsmbwnZl4dPGVKvd6qFFJTMaVSycGbBf WXg_qmC2GCRzDgFF1D7acO3pk_kGqdIZ4pg-I5yjnmx2abS5xH4KY4uCzjvikUmL6X3XU5J9ALBapkoNHp4YMx Ij98tWzU79w2bHAl8VGG6ENgIxiVcTbCg243APQRW6KoOTrPby q1D9u1OzrgEy2VoObvGW2MHQ9iUOy2ROnhAUVqWE2O0s7PHnnA expv0d4Dkg6-aFhQRA4E0-GDLzPSxMMFv-d0eZNJ2uYBXredWvwHTSJzODJxadhlxrgx75FyIz4li1nhbUBp ruLN9TuAnnbb-07f12-cYAnCq7CPT4myfsC2PgY5ff8kQta6onfLDywcdSHNDT4J0jOsN h9HLDIvoOBRhm21QHSQiwk6sWlkApR_VA6NKy4cSV5w3SxId5g rJ64HEboRr2JsdSMG2f6neclb8AJ1g4uGbZMwjldM2zXkMT_cO Aex54G6U_CoqpaBR1IP4hBALTU=w720-h960-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JHTMp8zEZEXHokfva-DHSjzO0P2-g9lb8INcvx82XxOKQNtNmzsYvFvL6qbkyHcUgoBxrwYp6ZZudP HELDC8q4Paw9b-CrNotpeR6e0P0fPFcjy9upSnUM5bvpYRDnhYZ5cQV1MilgP5y7 BRqDt0R0wojyW99DGCVkbl-a4achQqYFqBv67zX4PPdWe3s0LsDMPoU9Jf4HA8GTMG-5qY2_oXM2oGCi86VFVWwzGZZP-4DsE6AT6-wDuEPwjfQ_CfcL2p0fGPit-68o3o27mmmAUazu1oqQPlzBdWWCf_2IsMrgZo-9Mvi2ioX4R2Hosg58xZybszudwpYzmOMLvlrr7Uk2AqRhfHC_V BVjasABzvbA0iu-WnDAw0VSAJPJoXSoaziSzrVefkmrSKZ4ZaPpHPiE3_ql6qr2yy oy0Wi8Kl5YxtEU13oBwUIXV3HBOx8Excp6Sv5jHOsdQc86pX9V iB1MpB8rKL2pxIRyt_kxDe-YKtbYLVQJasOg3-upB2rbyC8Te3UgMRSZHoYzr_Wkwl9_QCxJ1vBLpBkxy-4KKCc1BEHm3CKdBKbtexUP-bxbh1wge1z8naGvL4Cq-CRS4v9r5yCFOx7mb1Flg=w1461-h974-no

Steve Melton

04-28-2018, 05:57 AM

that's a good idea, I'm going to need the same.

I designed this adapter to fit the Odyssey PC-680 battery in the stock Van's aft battery tray. CAD drawn and printed up by my Chapter 113 friend Oliver Reik.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JHTMp8zEZEXHokfva-DHSjzO0P2-g9lb8INcvx82XxOKQNtNmzsYvFvL6qbkyHcUgoBxrwYp6ZZudP HELDC8q4Paw9b-CrNotpeR6e0P0fPFcjy9upSnUM5bvpYRDnhYZ5cQV1MilgP5y7 BRqDt0R0wojyW99DGCVkbl-a4achQqYFqBv67zX4PPdWe3s0LsDMPoU9Jf4HA8GTMG-5qY2_oXM2oGCi86VFVWwzGZZP-4DsE6AT6-wDuEPwjfQ_CfcL2p0fGPit-68o3o27mmmAUazu1oqQPlzBdWWCf_2IsMrgZo-9Mvi2ioX4R2Hosg58xZybszudwpYzmOMLvlrr7Uk2AqRhfHC_V BVjasABzvbA0iu-WnDAw0VSAJPJoXSoaziSzrVefkmrSKZ4ZaPpHPiE3_ql6qr2yy oy0Wi8Kl5YxtEU13oBwUIXV3HBOx8Excp6Sv5jHOsdQc86pX9V iB1MpB8rKL2pxIRyt_kxDe-YKtbYLVQJasOg3-upB2rbyC8Te3UgMRSZHoYzr_Wkwl9_QCxJ1vBLpBkxy-4KKCc1BEHm3CKdBKbtexUP-bxbh1wge1z8naGvL4Cq-CRS4v9r5yCFOx7mb1Flg=w1461-h974-no

Snowflake

04-28-2018, 07:33 AM

Good idea for the battery holder. You could save a fair bit of plastic by just printing "corners" and letting them float. Once the battery is in place they wouldn't be moving.

Second thought: That holder would probably work in the behind-firewall location on the RV-6 too.

Steve Melton

04-28-2018, 08:23 AM

I like the original design. One piece. No opportunity for loose pieces.

Good idea for the battery holder. You could save a fair bit of plastic by just printing "corners" and letting them float. Once the battery is in place they wouldn't be moving.

Second thought: That holder would probably work in the behind-firewall location on the RV-6 too.

TShort

04-28-2018, 09:37 AM

Steve-

Are the flap brackets the same between the RV-9 and RV-10? If not, do you have any plans to make similar covers for the RV-10 brackets?

Thanks
Thomas

Steve Melton

04-28-2018, 09:45 AM

they are different. they on the list for development and I think they would look good on the RV-10. I must say the flap brackets for the -9 are doing very well. no issues. look as new.

Mousse

04-28-2018, 09:54 AM

Hi Steve. I am interested in acquiring your rudder pedal extension. Why are your not selling to Canada?
Michel

Steve Melton

04-29-2018, 06:35 AM

Hi Steve. I am interested in acquiring your rudder pedal extension. Why are your not selling to Canada?
Michel

she said she can do it but shipping = $26 by USPS

Mousse

04-29-2018, 08:15 AM

First-Class Package International Service?

Affordable International Service

An economical way to send small packages to more than 180 countries. Can send mailpieces up to 4 lbs (cannot exceed $400 in value). Restrictions may apply based on country destination. From $10.00 at Post Office locations and online.

Rate taken from USPS website. I received a package by USPS lately and cost was $16.00.

Michel

Snowflake

04-29-2018, 08:46 AM

I like the original design. One piece. No opportunity for loose pieces.
True, but requires a much larger print bed, longer print time, etc. Given this is something you rarely need to move or adjust, the tradeoff in extra fidgeting may be worth the lower weight, less plastics, etc.

I suppose to solve the larger print area requirement, you could make it in two pieces that jigsaw-puzzle together.

Snowflake

04-29-2018, 08:48 AM

Rate taken from USPS website. I received a package by USPS lately and cost was $16.00.
Michel, note that shipping across the CAN/US border has become more tedious as forms need to be filled out declaring contents and classifying them for customs purposes... The extra work has caused a number of US companies to stop shipping to Canada.

catmandu

04-29-2018, 09:59 AM

LOL at the joke before moderation, I'm stealing that one. :D

Go Caps!

Steve Melton

04-29-2018, 08:27 PM

painted with clear enamel UV protected. 1.5 x .375 x 6 inches. standard size. printed solid. cut to desired length.

smooth side is air flow surface, textured side is for bonding

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2636_zpsudopu9no.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2638_zps2xn6chrg.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2645_zpsvjk2pxi2.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/DSCN2640_zpsimz0pn6f.jpg

Steve Melton

05-04-2018, 01:54 PM

if you are serious about rudder trim tab weight, a hollow rudder trim tab is 60% of the weight of the solid version. externally, they look the same.

standard solid rudder trim tab, 1.5 x .375 x 6 inch = 33 grams
hollow rudder trim tab, 1.5 x .375 x 6 inch = 20 grams

a 40 percent trim tab weight reduction

cut the solid trim tab to desired length during flight testing, then install the exact length hollow trim tab. we can make these to lengths in 0.1 inch length increments.

yes, we are making the lowly rudder trim tab an engineering show piece and improving flutter margin!

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/rudder%20wedge%2015%20infill_zpsv6ta8xyn.png

Steve Melton

05-05-2018, 07:12 AM

an angled version to align the top and bottom edges with the air flow stream

light weight and durable. good for bonding.

rudder trim tab length options:

2 3 4 5 6
2.1 3.1 4.1 5.1
2.2 3.2 4.2 5.2
2.3 3.3 4.3 5.3
2.4 3.4 4.4 5.4
2.5 3.5 4.5 5.5
2.6 3.6 4.6 5.6
2.7 3.7 4.7 5.7
2.8 3.8 4.8 5.8
2.9 3.9 4.9 5.9

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/angled%20installed%20sketch_zpsyrlexcc0.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/angled%20cap1_zpseheyz8kl.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/angled%2015%20infill_zpseffebsp7.png

flysrv10

05-05-2018, 04:57 PM

Would you consider doing a battery box adopter for PC925 that fits into RV10?s battery tray?

Steve Melton

05-05-2018, 05:13 PM

yes, I need one of those myself for the RV-9 battery box. send me your dimensions because I'm not sure of the RV-10 battery box size.

flysrv10

05-05-2018, 06:49 PM

Thanks. I will tomorrow.

Steve Melton

05-05-2018, 08:40 PM

poking around. a properly configured Odyssey 925 battery file. bingo

need to verify the model sizing with the Odyssey website

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Odyssey%20925_zps70aoj6vb.png

Odyssey 680 battery

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Odyssey%20680_zpsqqya3ubt.png

flysrv10

05-06-2018, 04:42 AM

Steve,
a 925 battery is wider that the battery tray in the 10. I had to install the battery on its side with the terminals facing left and up. This installation leave a gap at the front (or back if you want) and a gap on one side on the tray. So right now, I have an L shaped spacer that takes up the gaps.

Steve Melton

05-06-2018, 07:14 AM

let's get rid of that L shaped spacer and have a one piece tray type design. send the dimensions and a picture of the current battery mount (without the battery installed, if possible). or there may be one on the web somewhere.

Steve,
a 925 battery is wider that the battery tray in the 10. I had to install the battery on its side with the terminals facing left and up. This installation leave a gap at the front (or back if you want) and a gap on one side on the tray. So right now, I have an L shaped spacer that takes up the gaps.

Steve Melton

05-06-2018, 08:29 AM

nested fit, .030 clearance all around

.030 added to flat bottom inner surface to maintain clearances

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap2_zpsohfpcyp2.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap1_zpsbv10vcrd.png

ready to print after receiving final tray dimensions

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap3_zpsh9ene8hj.png

flysrv10

05-06-2018, 12:03 PM

YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK. LOOKS GOOD. THE EXISTING RV10 TRAY IS 7 1/2" lONG by 5" deep. I GOT THIS INFO FROM VANS BATTERY THAT HE SELLS. IF YOU NEED A MORE PRECISE DIMENSION, I WILL NEED TO OPEN THE TAIL CONE AND MEASURE. YOUR CALL; NOT TOO MUCH WORK FOR THE BEST FIT. I SEND YOU N INSTALLATION PIC THAT I FOUND ON THE WEBSITE. I MAY HAVE TO SEND YOU THE PIC DIRECTLY TO YOU EMAIL UNLESS I FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT HERE.

flysrv10

05-06-2018, 12:11 PM

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOsYMT7UNHr6XirZua1e3FPzTn4khZA-l5gAqvQ

lets see if this works.

flysrv10

05-06-2018, 12:20 PM

Steve, send me your email and I will shoot you a pic. Alternatively, if you google RV10 Batter try, you will find the pic with the battery positioned just as you have drawn it. It is only a few images from the top. Let me know. Thanks.

Steve Melton

05-06-2018, 05:37 PM

semelton@yahoo.com

let me know if this works for you and I'll hit the print button and Amanda will ship tomorrow.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap4_zpssg1yvdab.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap5_zpsyiyva5r1.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap6_zpsunbfl9ti.png

there is still some room to shift the battery to left a small amount, let me know.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap7_zps6tagu2fp.png

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh519/semelton500/Cap8_zpsdk3cxfyy.png