What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Should I?

F

flydoc

Active Member
Hello everyone,

I am seriously considering joining the ranks of airplane builder and would like a little advice. I have flown pretty much everything and I am now in a fractional ownership (OurPlane) with a Cirrus SR22. I am not too happy with the fractional arrangement because of plane availabilty. Do like the Cirrrus, though :p

I have decided on the RV10. My queston to all of you is if you think I can / should take this on. I have no experience building (except desks from Office Max), and I am going to do the QuickBuild option, which sounds like it is not too bad, but how is it in real world experience.

I will greatly appeciate any response.

Thanks,
Mark
 
There is a lot to consider when you lay out 100K to build a plane. Most builders have some type of craft experience. Model plane builders do quite well as do people with most any type of craft skill. I would suggest taking a weekend seminar like the EAA Sport Air RV assembly seminar. You will be able to make a small airfoil during the class using most of the tools needed to build an RV. Bring along a potential building partner, as well. A class like this will bring out your innate skills and best tell you if you should make the investment and procede. The smaller RV tail kits are a lot cheaper and would be the second less costly assessment of your skills. But the RV10 tail kit is a bigger bet to make at 3200 bucks.

Hope this helps,

Roberta
 
Do it.....

Dan is correct, persistence is the key. His website helps also (thanks Dan) . The sheet metal skills are fairly straight forward. Take a weekend seminar. It really helps you understand the metal working/building process. I have seen some show quality RVs from 1st time builders. Mine is not show quality, but sure is fun to fly and according to my DAR, EAA folks and A&P it is constructed pretty well. That has more to do with Vans and the Phillipine craftsman than me (QB). I had never built anything other than a few home carpentry projects. Some of the assembly steps are really challenging for a 1st timer. I found that most tasks take at least twice as long to complete as I planned. So don't go into a QB project thinking it is quick, there is still a lot of work. My RV9A took me 1200 hours (no paint or gear fairings). Just about what Vans predicts on a QB. While the 10 is a bigger project, I have heard that the plans and drawings are an improvement over the 7 and 9. If I can do it, anyone can. There are few experiences in life that can come close to the sense of accomplishment. Go for it.
 
As Dan said, desire and persistance are the main ingredients for success. You need to have a series of small successes to keep you moving. Like your first hole you drill. A completed horizontal stabilizer. Prosealed fuel tanks. Competed canopy. Engine hung. The list goes on. Take each process a step at a time and keep your eyes on the prize.

If there are any areas where you are not comfortable with your skill level, I highly recommend the SportAir workshops the EAA sponsors around the country. I attended the wiring and avionics seminar and found it very helpful. There are other seminars that are applicable to RV's that can also give you the confidence to "Git 'er Done".

And what ever you do, don't listen to the nay-sayers. There are more reasons to not build an airplane, or own one for that matter, than there are to build one. The challenge and sense of accomplishment outweigh all hesitation in my opinion.

There was an advertizing series that Lancair had several years ago, where there was a little boy holding up a paper airplane. The caption said, "Sometimes in life you just have to say, screw it. I'm doing this!"

That has been my motto for the last 7.5 years of construction on my 6A.


Enjoy the journey and welcome to the "family".


Regards,
 
If you have to ask others...

If you are looking for encouragement this is not something you want to get into. If you are asking if these airplanes are as good as the hype indicates the answer is, yes they are. The sheetmetal part of building the airplane is very methodical and very satisfying (therapeutic?) as long as you get some basic instruction, take your time, and strive for excellence you will eventually produce one of the best airplanes around. But make no mistake about it the Quick build only partially takes care of some basic elements of the sheetmetal air frame and weldments. Even after the airframe is done you have a long way to go before you have an airplane that is developed to the level that will provide the IFR travel on demand utility of a fully developed and instrumented production airplane. I'm getting there with mine but it's not there yet. It is a tremendously demanding task if you take it on by yourself as my wife and I did but it can be a very positive life altering experience if you take it on and work it to completion. What you may want to ask yourself is, "Given that I through the the SR22 fractional ownership was a good idea and I got into that only to be disappointed by not being able to fly when I want to, will I be able to work through the hard years of building an airplane instead of flying when I want to?" To reiterate, if your query is based on uncertainty about the quality and performance of the airplane? my answer is yes it is a very worthwhile pursuit but if you are asking if you should build the airplane then my response is no. When you are ready, you won't have to ask - you will do the research for yourself, make the commitment and do it. If you are trying to collect supporting arguments to win over your spouse to the idea - well good luck.
 
dan said:
If you have enough desire and persistence, then everything else is just a variable in the equation.
Click to expand...

Thanks, everyone for all of the thoughtful responses. I do have the Desire and the Persistence (I think :p ) to get through this. A big part of the whole aviation experience for me is just being able to go to your hangar and twiddle with the plane. With OurPlane, you just show up & fly. Before the Cirrus, I had a 182 for a few years in a hangar at Arlington, TX and I really miss having a reason to go to the airport just to hang out on my days off.

I think I have made my decision. I now need to get out of my contract with O.P. before my year is up.

Thanks again,
Mark

P.S. Anyone in the DFW area?
 
Kinda harsh Bob. I've been working on a sloooow build 4 since '99 and have often sought the encouragement of friends and family to convince me I should keep at it. It's wonderful that you have the drive and self-confidence to continue without doubt, but many of us feel guilt over what is really just a very extravagent toy. I think the "if you have doubts then it's not right for you" argument could just as easily be applied to marriage, having children, buying a home, pursuing an education, etc. I'd say if a grown-up doesn't have some reservations about plunking down $100,000 he's a bit mixed up.

As for doubts about the skills required, I believe that anybody CAN acquire the necessary skills. Some folks will need more instruction and help, but anybody can do it. I've been building all manner of things since I was a boy, but others come to these things later in life and discover talents they never knew they had. Info is power. Go look at some finished planes, go for a ride if possible, take a building class, and ask lots of questions.

Finally, beware the egos associated with aviation (and many other adventurous pursuits). This is a pretty opinionated bunch and some of us seem to love knocking the enthusiasm out of the newcomers. It doesn't mean sh**.

Steve Zicree
 
I agree with those who say "do it."

But I would also pass along this piece of advice that someone passed along to me.

Don't build a plane because you want a plane. Build a plane because you want to build a plane.

bc
 
Oh, one other thing. The neat thing about building a plane is at the end of the process, you not only have a plane, you have a lot of cool tools and a lot of neat friends you didn't have when you started.

I flunked shop in school, but I can't believe how much fun building a plane is. I can't believe how proud of myself I am for learning so many new things.

And I can't believe that there have been times when I've wondered if flying can possibly be as much as fun as building.

Not that there aren't parts of it that suck, of course.

BC
 
If you build it they will come (help)

Joining the RV community will add quality to your life. There are hundreds/thousands willing to give you a hand, advice, encouragement. The airplane is the cake, your new community of builders is the icing. Again, I say go for it. If you are in Texas, check out the RV White pages; Texas is RV central for builders. Good luck.
 
Go For It

I'm building a -10. My twin brother just completed a -9A. The plans & instructions are far superior on the -10 than the rest. I think they are easier to read & follow than a lot of R/C planes I've built in, say......38 yrs. :rolleyes: Also, you don't HAVE to spend 100K. I'm confident I'll be in mine for around 65. I only fly VFR, so I don't see the need to spend $$$$$ on stuff I don't need. It would be nice to show off a cool panel, but I'd rather spend that money on fuel to go places & see things. Better yet, give more people rides, so the bug can bite them too. :D

Marshall Alexander
RV10 wings
 
$65k

Marshall, can you share with us, please, how you came up with $65K? I ran Van's cost estimator with a mid-time engine, no paint, basic VFR, no tools and it came out to $83K on the low end. By the time one adds tools, paint, seat cushions, etc., I would think $90K would probably be a good minimum estimate with $100K being more realistic for most folks.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but if an RV10 can be built for $65K I might have to reconsider my 7A first choice. My estimate comes out to $73K for a 7A but that is with a new motor and "one notch up" from a basic panel.
 
Go for It!

Well said Bob,

It has been five years now since I finish the construction of my RV-8. I still have the RV grin on my face every time I fly her. That's 600 hours now! Building is a end in itself. I enjoyed it very much, and I learned that there is nothing that I cant' do if I really want to do it! When I began, the only metal tool I had was an air compressor, and it was too small for the job. I had all the usual self doubts about whether or not I could build Van's kit. As I completed each kit, my confidence grew. I wasted plenty of time staring in amazement at the parts I had completed. I still feel that way as I look at he completed project when I leave the hanger.

Building an airplane is a life changing experience. The fact the you have a very capable, and special airplane when you're done is simply icing on the cake.

Danny King
Beautiful Doll 80434
 
Have the Time?

The only thing I would add is you have to have the time set aside to work on it. That's the persistence part of the project. I think more projects die from inattention than anything else. You'll acquire the necessary skills over time, but they won't be much use if you're not in the shop building on a regular basis.

Bob's advice is spot on, build because you want to build, not because you want to fly. There are plenty of folks out there that can build a RV-10 for you if you have the $$$$.
 
Mark,
Come to the Southwest Regional Fly-in in Hondo, TX next weekend and attend my forum, "So you think you want to build an airplane?" I will be presenting at 11:00am both Friday and Saturday. We will cover all your questions and we can talk one on one outside the forum. I think by the end of the fly-in you will be ready to start on your project. If building is not for you, you will find out. But from what I hear you saying, I think that your a good candidate for building.
Mel...DAR
 
Still thinking it can be done

Tom, I still think it can be done for around 65K. I didn't add paint (doesn't have to have it to fly). Figure very basic panel, steam guages, & used avionics. Even a runout engine doesn't mean its life is over. Don't have to have fancy cushions either. As good as the instructions are, you don't have to spend 1/2 again as much on screwed up parts.Tools can be resold.
My brother figured his -9A at 51K. Runout O-320, he has a pretty nice panel. The airplane isn't painted, but it has no conscience & doesn't care.
It doesn't have to cost that much to make it fly. You can add the neat stuff as time goes on.
That's one of my beefs with Sport Aviation. They run a lot more articles on 100K+ planes built by people with more than average income, than they do for us po folks (ie. Pietenpol). I feel this seems to scare a lot of folks off from flying. Several years ago, one magazine had an article on the Skypup. Yeh, it's an ultralight, but cheap and it flies. And I think there are a lot more of these simple/inexpensive airplanes out there.
Some soapbox, huh.

Marshall
 
"Encouragment" from family

One thing others have not mentioned that seems relevant to your question is whether or not you will have the support of family. Since there are already times where you're going to be discouraged (even if only temporarily), you don't want to have to face more discouragment or lack of support from others around you. I'm lucky--my wife loves flying, loves the idea of building things, hates shopping, doesn't get her feelings hurt if I'm out in the garage until 1 am because I'm on a roll, doesn't bat an eye when I say I want to rebuild part of my horizontal stabilizer for $300, etc. Although I was really not at a place in my life where I could, my only regret is that I didn't start this 5-10 years ago!

Good luck. I've had a lot of fun building the -9 so far and the -10 supposedly does go together even easier.

Steve
 
Look inside yourself

I waited about 20 years from "Gee, I'd like to build an airplane someday" to ordering the kit. A lot had to happen before I could start, some of which may apply to you:

- Get a home with building space
- Earn enough discretionary income
- Learn how (took the SportAir sheet metal class)
- Got tired of flying piece-of-trash airplanes designed as a someone else's compromise...mine will be MY compromise!
- Realized that for the $80K that I'm spending on my RV-7, there were NO other airplanes I'd rather own.
- Had to find a homebuilt I really wanted to build
- Got a master's degree while working full-time...roughly the same time commitment as building an RV.

I would offer the caution that if you compare the typical homebuilt (as opposed to the ones you see in Sport Aviation) to a Cirrus SR-22, the homebuilt will look rustic, spartan, and non-luxurious. You CAN build your RV-10 every bit as leather-upholstered, refined, and Lexus-like as a Cirrus, but it's a lot of work.
 
want to or have to...

If you watched the 'RV Story' video, our narrator says, "Some people build because they WANT TO. Some people build because they HAVE TO."

I started out as a 'HAVE TO' and ended up being a 'WANT TO'. When the empennage kit arrived, there was that sinking feeling of being overwhelmed. After finishing the horizontal stabilizer and sitting back to admire the gleaming aluminum with all of those perfectly set rivets, it struck me how enjoyable building is and that it really is do-able. Two years and eleven months after the tail kit arrived, I lined my new airplane up on the runway centerline, and... advanced the throttle!

All good things require some sacrifice... and the decision is the hardest part of the entire process.
 
Mel said:
Come to the Southwest Regional Fly-in in Hondo, TX next weekend and attend my forum, "So you think you want to build an airplane?"
Click to expand...

Thanks Mel,

I am trying to arrange transportation to SWRFI since the Cirrus is taken (of course :rolleyes: ), but I'll get there someway. My wife & I can't arrive until Sunday morning, so I am sorry to say I will miss your presentation. I hope to gather information and possibly a test filight :) in an RV. Hopefully they will have a -10 on display.

Again, thanks to Everyone for all of the great responses. For better or worse, you have all made up my mind to build!!!

Mark
 
There is one thing that I didn't see mentioned in scanning through the previous posts, that I would like to add.

I had no idea how the building process would make me a more confident and knowledgable pilot. Even if you are a marathon builder, you are gaining experience and comprehending what is happening under the skins of your current ship, allowing you to fly it better.

When I fly the Cherokee 6, I look out along the tops of the wings and can "see through" the skin. I can visualize the spars, rivets, bellcranks, flap apparatus and fuel tank construction. It is a level of understanding that I would have never achieved, if never embarking on this journey.

Enjoy the build!

;) CJ
 
Last edited:
Without question, maybe

Mark, there are so many factors in building one of these airplanes. People fail to complete theirs for probably dozens of reasons such as job loss, jealous wife, burnout, etc., but the ones that finish all have one thing in common. They have the persistence to motor through the excuses that stop other builders from finishing. Either you have it or you don't. For me my projects over my life demonstrated that I lacked the stick-to-it-ness needed to build a kitplane. I have a beautiful redwood deck in the back yard without boards trimming the sides, an air conditioner in a wall in my bedroom without a frame around it to give it that finished look, and so on and so on. When the decision was made to actually build one of these contraptions nobody and I mean nobody supported the decision. Anyway, it flew last August and was painted this last month. I pick it up Monday from the paint shop and bring her home. I heard John Harmon describes building a plane like eating an elephant. If you stand back and look at the whole thing it is overwhelming, but if you just take one bite at a time eventually you will eat the entire thing.
As for skills, you will develope them as they are needed.

Regards,
Bryan
 
Mark, If you can't get to Hondo, we'll be hanging out at Mid-Way Regional Airport (KJWY) Midlothian/Waxahachie for the TEX RV Flyin on the 21st. You never know how many airplanes will show up, usually a lot and the food should be good.
 
Test the water

The satisfaction, friends, completed project and tool collection are all priceless.

If that still doesn't convince you, then I would HIGHLY recommend a week at Griffin, GA for Alexander's training center. The learning is invaluable and you walk away with the confidence and motivation to finish the project. Not to mention a completed empenage.

Hwood
 
You're not exactly cutting corners on the panel. I can see a way to save $11,000 right there. Is cs prop needed? Brand new engine? $65000 is pretty ambitious, but you'd be amazed at how cheap some folks have built planes. They don't show up in the magazines cuz they're plain and simple, but they're out there. In fact, I think I'll start a thread on it.

Steve Zicree
RV4 on a budget
 
65k

As I said. I think I can do it for 65K (I'm going to shoot for less). Looks like Steve sees where I'm coming from. Again, just because an engine is at tbo, doesn't mean it won't run for another 3-400 hrs. Interior? I've got a friend that does that, I build, I've got another friend that does avionics, I build, get the drift? We help each other out, without spending lots of money.
I realize some folks aren't happy unless they can say something like "I spent $$$$$$$$$ on mine." I'm working to see how little I have to spend, & still have a 200 mph airplane. :) I think I can.
Throwing money at a project to see how much I can spend, is not something I'm good at. I've got lots more time to throw at it, to find a less expensive way to do something. Besides, us poor folks just have to find alternative ways. We do a lot of things ourselves, like rebuild our own engines, paint our own airplanes and the like. It just doesn't have to cost that much.

Marshall Alexander
RV10
Wings
 
31K avionics

William:
I see $31,000 for avionics that could be whittled down easily to $2100. The airplane would still fly & wouldn't know the difference, except that it wouldn't have to haul all of that expensive stuff around

Marshall
 
RV10Man said:
William:
I see $31,000 for avionics that could be whittled down easily to $2100. Marshall
Click to expand...
It would know the difference in the clouds. :)

$2100 covers basic flight and a turn coordinator and maybe a KX-170/5. If I want to do that then I'll just buy a circa 1960s spam can.

And I thought I was the cheap on; no HID lights, my Nav lights are $75/pair, my strobes are from Strobes-n-More. Avionics, well that's my vice as I intend to fly at night and IFR as I do today. I don't have so many friends in the industry that I can offset cost. I do plan on a certificated engine, maybe not new but definately not run out. I also plan on painting myself
 
William: Your right. :) But I think this is where newbies to the "hobby" get confussed. I don't think enough people take the time to explain to them that they don't have to have all these things. They just assume it's all necessary to make it fly. Therefore they're scared off before they even begin. :(
My brother just finished his 9A. It's not painted yet but he's got $51K in it so far. His radio & transponder was $3030, could have gotten by on $2000. He also installed the Dynon EFIS D10. didn't have to have it, just wanted it. :)
I was looking at the sales/spec sheet for the V1000C?? last night for the RV10. I looked at the price list at about $4300, that's way out of my league, I tossed it in the trash can. I think I figured about $800+/- for engine instruments from Van's. Yeah, they not as cool looking as glass but they are effective.
I'm not instrument rated, as is the case with most new pilots, so basic "six pack" steam guages, a transponder (mode C), the $750 com radio from Van's, a hand held GPS, & a whiskey compass will do sufficiently.

Marshall
 
RV10Man said:
I'm not instrument rated, as is the case with most new pilots, so basic "six pack" steam guages, a transponder (mode C), the $750 com radio from Van's, a hand held GPS, & a whiskey compass will do sufficiently.
Click to expand...
Not all new builders are new pilots. I?m not a builder (yet), but I?ve got a lot of flying experience. I would not put myself in the clouds without a comprehensive and most importantly, redundant panel. The minimum equipment required by 91.205 is just that?minimum.

The technology available for GA today is astounding. Why do you think these advancements have been made? So the avionics companies can make more money? So the aircraft owner can have more pretty lights on the panel? So the pilot can have more manuals to read? The equipment has evolved in the interest of increasing safety, improving redundancy and decreasing pilot workload.

You don?t have to invest $30,000 in your panel, but flying in the clouds with basic instrumentation is inviting trouble. There is a happy medium to be found when designing your panel. Some things just look nice, but others offer a substantial benefit. Loss of situational awareness is a leading contributor to IMC accidents. Bear that in mind when your deciding whether you want or need that little bit extra.

Air UPSer
 
What a Day!!!!

This may or may not be the right forum, but....

Today was the day of the $30K (+) smile! I was in Seattle the last two days on business, and after two months of reading every new post on this forum, I chose to drive from Seattle to Vans today and take a tour and demo ride in the -10.

Ken Scott took, me up and we had a most wonderful time! It's been 25 years since I've flown, but wow! This plane is sweet. I spent a good bit of time just sitting in the cockpit looking at stuff, and some time in the back seat too. I even crawled on the floor underneath it.

So, where am I with my progress, you ask? I'm writing the check for the empenage! Another -10 kit will be under construction very soon!

Ken Peck
Writing the first check! :D
 
Ken...

Congrat's on taking the plunge! I live in the Dallas / Fort Worth area, but I also found myself in Seattle this week (and as we speak I am still here).

I was having lunch with a client today, at a ritzy tennis club he is a member of, on Lake Washington. It is a real fancy place, where the richer folks with float planes actually fly in for lunch, tennis, etc. He likes to meet us there, for lunch since he is pretty proud of his membership into this elite club (Bill Gates is also a member). Anyway, as we ate lunch on an outside dining area, I watched two Otter's fly in and taxi up to the dock. I also saw three different RV's fly over the lake while we were having lunch. It just goes to show that there are RV's everywhere! (and a tremendous amount of general aviation in the Seattle area).

Good luck with the project! I also took the plunge awhile back, while I was in Portland on business. I took an extra day and drove down to the factory and was SOLD! BTW, I thought I had a long flight to Seattle from Dallas..but then I see you flew in from Florida! LONG flight, huh? :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top