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Is the AFS 3500 Shipping

jrouault

jrouault

Well Known Member
Patron
Does anyone know if Advanced Flight Systems is shipping the AFS-3500 yet? Their web site is totally out of date and there is little to no information available on the EFIS products. It would be nice if there was a data sheet which highlights all the features, capabilities, and options.

Jason Rouault
http://www.rvbuild.com
 
I sent AFS an email asking them again for additional details.
Jason, I am in between Loveand & Fort Collins and would be interested in seeing a system if you get one.

gh
 
Yeah, their website has been like that since before Oshkosh... though I've seen the product and spoke with the nice crew at the Airventure, I hate to say that AFS is terrible at marketing what they do... :mad:

I hear that they're only installing a few units close by their HQ so they can easily tune and debug the software, yet these days it is unacceptable to have such a poor web presence. :confused:

Ciao, Luca
(still very interested in their product, but looking more and more at Dynon)
 
AF-3500 Shipping

The AF-3500 is shipping, there are 4 more going out today.
We are working our way through a huge backlog and it is going to take some time. Every Glasair Sportman going through the Two Weeks to Taxi program has got one now for over 5 months.

All the functions that we planned are implimented in software and shipping in the units.

We will have an update on the web site this week.

Van himself picked one up on Friday for his personal RV-10.

Sincerly,

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
 
www.flightaware.com/live/flight/N2CQ

This was a flight on Saturday in actual IFR conditions using the AF-3500EE EFIS, notice the weather in the picture and track log. It is comforting to know in this weather your EFIS horizon is going to work even if your pitot tube freezes up.

The plane is actually a Sportsman not a 182.

We currently have the HSI working with:

SL-30 Data VOR/LOC/GS
GPS data

Both sources of data can be turned on at the same time. You can even set the OBS on the SL-30 using the knob on the EFIS.

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
 
Rob,

Sounds like things have turned around. I had placed an order right after OSH and finally in November after not even being able to get the sensor package I had to go a different direction (fortunately not Chelton) because I just couldn't wait any longer. I REALLY like the displays though.

Bob
RV-10 #40105
 
N401RH said:
We currently have the HSI working with:

SL-30 Data VOR/LOC/GS
GPS data

Both sources of data can be turned on at the same time. You can even set the OBS on the SL-30 using the knob on the EFIS.
Click to expand...
that's good news Rob, I knew that things were happening, and found a way to dig you out of your hole for a second... ;)

Sooo, this statement actually means that a bidirectional serial port has to be dedicated to the SL30, fair enough. One could also think that pseudo-DME information could be computed by the EFIS and pushed on the SL30 screen to display... :D

But! Having a dedicated serial port for the SL30 automatically means that one cannot hook up the "VHF Out" pseudo-NMEA stream coming from the Garmin GPS, useful to pre-load the SL30 with VOR and COM frequencies of nearby stations and airports.

Assuming that you take the GPS NMEA stream from a separate serial port, could you confirm whether your firmware implements a "VHF Out passthru" mode, that would funnel all the Garmin/2Morrow $PMRR proprietary sentences received from the Garmin unit directly onto the SL30 serial port?

By doing that, wiring the SL30 plus Garmin would be really sweet... and if you have enough memory for a VOR database in the EFIS, you could easily implement pseudo-DME without the need to rely on the GPS for range calculations... :p

Very much looking forward to a big update on your website! Welcome to the Internet age! :rolleyes:

Tell your engineers that the guy from Cisco says hello... they'll remember the chats we had in Oshkosh!

Ciao, Luca
 
AF-3500 Serial

"Assuming that you take the GPS NMEA stream from a separate serial port, could you confirm whether your firmware implements a "VHF Out passthru" mode, that would funnel all the Garmin/2Morrow $PMRR proprietary sentences received from the Garmin unit directly onto the SL30 serial port?"

We are currently working on passing data from the GPS onto the SL-30 and we will have it soon.

Much of the data from the GPS and SL-30 Nav are displayed on the EFIS screen.

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
 
AF-3500 NAV

Here is a picture of the screen with the SL-30 Nav turned on.
The AOA display is also on with the flaps up

navcy8.gif
 
N401RH said:
Here is a picture of the screen with the SL-30 Nav turned on.
The AOA display is also on with the flaps up
Click to expand...
I really like the resolution if the display!

What are the hearly horizontal yellow lines, one with a square and one with a diamond on it?

How easy is it to declutter the screen?
 
Rob,

I love the screenshots! The HSI looks like it might work very well. What are the BTS and BTA indicators for? Also, do I assume correctly that the AF-3400 is functionally identical to the AF-3500 (i.e., only the screen size is different)?

Thanks,
 
the_other_dougreeves said:
What are the hearly horizontal yellow lines, one with a square and one with a diamond on it?
Click to expand...
to me, these seem to be RMI needles pointing to the active and standby VOR station. BTA and BTS to me read "Bearing To Active VOR" and "Bearing To Standby VOR". One of the cool things about the SL30 is that you really have two NAV receivers in the same box, the primary/active is sampled at 10 Hz, while the secondary/standby station is sampled at 1 Hz, more than enough to monitor crossing radials during a VOR approach, in my opinion.

How easy is it to declutter the screen?
Click to expand...
very good point! While I very much like the innovative PFD+HSI+RMI look and feel, I smell a bit of information overload for Joe average pilot...

Just to be picky, a frequency of 110.090 to me smells like an error of some kind... would it be 110.90 maybe? And if yes, then it means it's a localizer frequency, which makes sense as the glide slope indicator between the HSI rose and the speed tape is visible... yet, how come there is an RMI needle? How do you know the position of the localizer station, given the fact that it's a localizer station and not a VOR?

This looks really sweet Rob!

Would you have a simulated screenshot of the EFIS showing the EMS part connected to a Rotax 912 engine? That would be what I am interested in.

Ciao, Luca
 
lucaberta said:
Just to be picky, a frequency of 110.090 to me smells like an error of some kind... would it be 110.90 maybe? And if yes, then it means it's a localizer frequency, which makes sense as the glide slope indicator between the HSI rose and the speed tape is visible...

Ciao, Luca
Click to expand...

You are quite correct- the ILS freq. for IMMV, at Mc Minnville (KMMV) is 110.9
Good catch!
 
AF-3500 Nav

Here are the answers to the questions.

1. The AF-3500 and AF-3400 are the same other than screen size.

2. We have software that enables us to capture an exact screen image to the SD card. The pictures were captured with simulated data to show everything.

3. The AOA, Flap and Trim can all be set to automatically declutter on the screen. The AOA can be set to automatically pop up on the screen when the AOA is higher than the set point. I have the AOA declutter set in my RV to display the AOA just lower than L/D max. The Green Donut (black in the picture) will be on when the flaps are down. The L/D max, approach, and "Angle Angle Push" warning are all different for flaps up and down.

4. The SL-30 actually sends the frequency to 3 decimal points, we can set it to only display 2. The GS only shows up if you have selected an ILS frequency. BTA is the Bearing To Active VOR station. BTS is the bearing to the standby VOR. You can adjust the SL-30 OBS setting with the knob on the EFIS. If you have tuned an ILS frequency you really don?t have an OBS setting and the SL-30 will not let you adjust it . The problem is with a HSI you really want the nav needle to be set to the runway heading so it points in the correct direction. If you are on an ILS freq we let you adjust the nav needle with the OBS knob on EFIS. The Nav and GPS data can be independently turned on/off very easily from the EFIS button. The BTS Bearing To Standby needle will only show up if you have selected to monitor it in the SL-30. The BTA Bearing to Active needle does not show up with an ILS frequency.

5. The GPS display shows the distance in nautical miles and speed in Knots to the active waypoint. I have the GPS in my plane set the miles (it just makes you feel better to see speeds in the 200?s) and then I have the speed and distance in nautical miles also from the EFIS.

Sincerely,

Rob Hickman
Advanced FLight Systems
 
lucaberta said:
Would you have a simulated screenshot of the EFIS showing the EMS part connected to a Rotax 912 engine? That would be what I am interested in.

Ciao, Luca
Click to expand...
I'd guess that it's the same as a "regular" 4-cyl air-cooled engine, but with only two cylinders shown for the two standard CHT sensors. Would be cool to see a screen shot.

Thanks for posting the info, AFS folks. A very nice product.
 
Rob,

I already have an AOA 'A kit'. Will I need the full kit to have AOA on an AF-3500, or is the AOA computer integrated into the -3500?

Thanks,

Dave
 
EFIS AOA

The EFIS AOA uses the same AOA A kit. If you have the A kit we subtract the price of it from the price of the system.


Rob Hickman
 
Need the brains?

Rob,

I have the same query and I'm still not clear. I have installed the wing kit in my RV-8. I shall want the AoA display on the AF3400 that I intend to purchase, but I will also want the separate normal AoA Pro display up by the glareshield (in addition to the EFIS display). What do I need to buy to make this happen?
 
lucaberta said:
Just to be picky, a frequency of 110.090 to me smells like an error of some kind... would it be 110.90 maybe?
Click to expand...
...or 110.900. Either way it looks like the display is incorrect. Presumably simple to fix.

Rob, quick question...is there anything functionally different between the AF-3400 and AF-3500, or is the difference purely size? I know some people would think I'm nuts, but I like the smaller one better. Wonder if there's any reason NOT to choose the smaller of the two...
 
How/Where to get the 'A kit'

N401RH said:
The EFIS AOA uses the same AOA A kit. If you have the A kit we subtract the price of it from the price of the system.
Click to expand...
I'm assuming the 'A kit' is the wing install portion only(?) If so, how do I order one? I haven't seen this option with Van's or Spruce
 
FlyerJumper said:
I'm assuming the 'A kit' is the wing install portion only(?) If so, how do I order one? I haven't seen this option with Van's or Spruce
Click to expand...

Well...you've been looking in the wrong places then :) AFS's "A" & "B" kits are routinely purchased separately when people are working on the wings, etc... Most of us forget to list it separately, but it's like buying your servos ahead of time without price penalty on the whole thing.

Cheers,
Stein.
 
Hi Dan,

dan said:
Rob, quick question...is there anything functionally different between the AF-3400 and AF-3500, or is the difference purely size? I know some people would think I'm nuts, but I like the smaller one better. Wonder if there's any reason NOT to choose the smaller of the two...
Click to expand...
Rob already gave an answer to the same question in this thread on 1/11:
1. The AF-3500 and AF-3400 are the same other than screen size.
Click to expand...
I'm with you, I like the 3400 better and I've seen the display resolution and dot pitch in Oshkosh. Believe me, it's quite nice! :D

Ciao, Luca
 
AF-3500 VOR GPS Picture

efisgpsvorbg1.gif


Here is a real screen image from in flight last week showing the VOR and GPS needles.

All the AOA systems (PRO, Sport, EFIS) use the same AOA A kit that has the Wing Ports, Tubing, Flap Switch, Manual, Instructional DVD. The AOA A Kit should be available from our dealers.

You can connect the AOA A-Kit with multiple AOA Systems, EFIS and AOA Pro for example. The Internal AOA in the EFIS will not drive an external display.

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
 
AF-3500 ILS Approach

efisilspx1.gif


By popular demand I went out and flew a real ILS RWY-22 approach into McMinnville, OR and captured this image.

The time is correct, the radio freq is correct, it is a real in flight image.


Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
 
N401RH said:
By popular demand I went out and flew a real ILS RWY-22 approach into McMinnville, OR and captured this image.

The time is correct, the radio freq is correct, it is a real in flight image.
Click to expand...
nice! But, boy, you were really tracking badly both the LOC and the GS!!! :D

I also notice that you've gotten rid of the RMI needle, which when tuned to a LOC would make no sense.

What if the standby NAV frequency is tuned to a VOR during an ILS? I assume that I would get the RMI needle and BTS indication, so those procedures with crossing radials for step-down descents can be flown in a snap. Am I correct?

Have you thought of an RMI needle also for a GPS waypoint? It could be useful to have the GPS flight plan set up direct to the LOM (either a 5-letter intersection or an NDB like we do in Europe) so you could nicely augment the Outer Marker crossing indication by just looking at the GPS RMI needle swing.

Great stuff Rob!

Ciao, Luca
 
Hard life!

N401RH said:
By popular demand I went out and flew a real ILS RWY-22 approach into McMinnville, OR and captured this image.
Click to expand...
Its a hard life, eh Rob? :D

Thanks for all the info. I love the look of the AF3400 and am leaning heavily that way for my -8 in a year or so. When I get nearer that time I'll contact you to finalize the finer details. Meanwhile, keep posting: as a free marketing tool it can't be beat!! :)

Cheers,
 
N401RH said:
efisilspx1.gif
Click to expand...
Cyl #2's EGT bar graph...I see 4 single lines that end up being thicker than a solid bar. Does the bar graph actually "shrink" when it goes from 1299 to 1300? I'm picking nits, but I want to understand the representation.
 
Dan, not sure what your are seeing...

It look to me that the EGT has one solid (looks to be made of four line) for each 100 degrees above 1000. In addition the extra single bars are added for each completed 25 degrees.

Looks like the CHT use the same pattern.

Do you think that the number 2 cyclinder is the one in the upper left of the engine display?

Kent
 
kentb said:
It look to me that the EGT has one solid (looks to be made of four line) for each 100 degrees above 1000. In addition the extra single bars are added for each completed 25 degrees.

Looks like the CHT use the same pattern.

Do you think that the number 2 cyclinder is the one in the upper left of the engine display?
Click to expand...

Yeah, exactly, and my point was that 3 slim bars end up being wider than 1 wide bar. So when you go from 1299 to 1300, it'll go from 3 slim bars to 1 wide bar...and it will actually compress. Just seemed a little odd to me.

I'm not trying to criticize. I have an AF-2500 and LOVE IT! I would love to have an AF-3400. I just like the vertical style bar graphs better, and I'm trying to understand the "top down view" convention a little better.
 
N401RH said:
efisilspx1.gif


By popular demand I went out and flew a real ILS RWY-22 approach into McMinnville, OR and captured this image.

The time is correct, the radio freq is correct, it is a real in flight image.


Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
Click to expand...


Rob - keep these coming - I'm already planning on your unit for my 9A. I'm interested in the certified AHRS software. Thanks so much!

dave
 
IowaRV9Dreamer said:
Rob - keep these coming - I'm already planning on your unit for my 9A. I'm interested in the certified AHRS software. Thanks so much!

dave
Click to expand...
Yes, thanks for the screen shots - great stuff!

Let me second the interest in the details of the AHRS. When upgrade to an IFR panel, my first concern will be the reliability of the instruments. Cost is second and functionality is actually third. If I can't rely on it, I don't want it. if I can't afford it, I don't care what it does.

Vacuum instruments are not attractive because of low reliability, moderate cost and maintenance and low functionality. Cost puts the units like the G900X and Chelton out of my price range, as much as I like the Chelton. The price for Dynon, GRT sport and AFS are attractive, and they offer most of the functionality I want. I've excluded BMA due to concerns about delivery and support - this has been discussed elsewhere and I won't rehash it here.

But what is the reliability of the systems, in particular the AHRS? One of the advantages of the Chelton system is that you can use whatever AHRS you want, including the more expensive, certified XBOW AHRS that has been, AFAIK, perfect. However, you're getting into serious money there.

How do we judge the reliability of these systems? Each of these three have done a lot of work on the systems to make them solid and reliable as well as functional. But, on the reliability side, how do you compare them? Are they all equally reliable, at least within a reasonable level?
 
Dan, your right...

dan said:
Yeah, exactly, and my point was that 3 slim bars end up being wider than 1 wide bar. So when you go from 1299 to 1300, it'll go from 3 slim bars to 1 wide bar...and it will actually compress. Just seemed a little odd to me.

I'm not trying to criticize. I have an AF-2500 and LOVE IT! I would love to have an AF-3400. I just like the vertical style bar graphs better, and I'm trying to understand the "top down view" convention a little better.
Click to expand...

I also like my AF-2500 better for engine temp. display.

It is a little hard to make out, but it sure looks to me that the three little bars are the same width as the wide bar. I don't think that the overall size would be smaller as the temp. increased. I would have to see it in action to be sure.

Kent
 
The certified Chelton uses the Crossbow 500 AHRS. The AHRS that we use is based on the Crossbow 500.
The major difference is that the one we use will run on our internal backup battery.

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
 
Engine CHT/EGT Display



With the Push of 3 buttons it will change to the bar graph display.

[ENG] -> [EGT/CHT] -> [MODE]

....yes we did catch the rounding error on the engine display on the previous pictures. The wide bars are 100 deg and the thin ones are 25 deg, EGT starts at 1000F. The next software release will have it fixed.


Rob Hickman
 
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