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Did you primer your ADSB box?

bret

bret

Well Known Member
Just kidding, but I did find a way out of the requirement, it is kinda like going back to a rotary phone, here is a flow chart, http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/equip/
Question one, do you have an electrical system? well, I was wondering if that question refers to having an alternator to run an EFII system, and no electronic EFIS? and if you broke it down further to electrons, a magneto is using electricity to fire the plugs? so where can we draw the line? can I go no electronic system and use my IPad to navigate and be legal? just asking questions, but it does stir my pot when I read that the Air force will not have the funding for this by 2020 but we will still need to buy this equipment.....Happy Monday! ;-)
 
If you want more reason to be upset, all the 121 operators (i.e. major airlines) as a group applied for an extension last summer for the same reason. I forget if if they want to push it back to 2025 or 2030. :(
 
They can push it back as far as they like, as long as the FAA doesn't cut off my ADSB-IN feed. I guess I'm one of the early adopters but I really like it.
 
epaslick said:
If you want more reason to be upset, all the 121 operators (i.e. major airlines) as a group applied for an extension last summer for the same reason. I forget if if they want to push it back to 2025 or 2030. :(
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The story about possible phase in was published back in May 2015. It would only be for earlier adopters that did not have the approved GPS installed IF approved. The rest of us that have done nothing yet are still expected to be compliant in 2020 if we want to use the airspace that it is required in.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/ADS-B-Deadline-Extension-In-Works-224069-1.html
 
I'm still day dreaming about my next project. (High wing bush plane of some type.)

It will have a battery, starter, radio, intercom, and maybe an EFIS.

With no engine driven alternator or generator, I won't have to install a transponder or ADS-B.

To keep the battery charged, I'm thinking of putting in solar panels above the pilot's head, between the wings.

Problem solved.

The only place I can't fly, with a 3rd class medical, is in Class Bravo.
 
bret said:
Just kidding, but I did find a way out of the requirement, it is kinda like going back to a rotary phone, here is a flow chart, http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/equip/
Question one, do you have an electrical system? well, I was wondering if that question refers to having an alternator to run an EFII system, and no electronic EFIS? and if you broke it down further to electrons, a magneto is using electricity to fire the plugs? so where can we draw the line? can I go no electronic system and use my IPad to navigate and be legal? just asking questions, but it does stir my pot when I read that the Air force will not have the funding for this by 2020 but we will still need to buy this equipment.....Happy Monday! ;-)
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The definition of an "electrical system" is a battery and engine driven generator. And before someone asks, an alternator IS a generator.
 
N941WR said:
I'm still day dreaming about my next project. (High wing bush plane of some type.)

It will have a battery, starter, radio, intercom, and maybe an EFIS.

With no engine driven alternator or generator, I won't have to install a transponder or ADS-B.

To keep the battery charged, I'm thinking of putting in solar panels above the pilot's head, between the wings.

Problem solved.

The only place I can't fly, with a 3rd class medical, is in Class Bravo.
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Luddite. :D
 
Thanks for the clarification Mel, well, I am definitely going to have a battery, more like three or four......and not going to be hand propping this thing!
 
Mel said:
The definition of an "electrical system" is a battery and engine driven generator. And before someone asks, an alternator IS a generator.
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So what you're saying is, if I make an electric-powered airplane (which would have no "engine driven generator"), it won't need ADS-B Out?

Cool! :D;)
 
bret said:
Thanks for the clarification Mel, well, I am definitely going to have a battery, more like three or four......and not going to be hand propping this thing!
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You can have a battery AND a starter, if you don't have an engine driven generator. You have two choices, a wind driven generator or a constant-loss system.
 
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Gliders have been using total-loss for decades, just size your battery appropriately and use deep-cycle batteries.
 
I'm no expert on this aspect of ADS-B, but I'm not sure the FAA really considers an electrical system a battery and generator when it comes to ADS-B:

91.225 (ADS-B):

The requirements of paragraph (b) of this section do not apply to any aircraft that was not originally certificated with an electrical system, or that has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, including balloons and gliders.
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A balloon and glider never have engine driven generators, yet still need ADS-B if they have electrical systems.

As a contrast, the transponder regs specifically mention engine driven, and specifically exempt gliders and balloons:

91.215:

(5) All aircraft except any aircraft which was not originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon, or glider—
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Also, the FAA currently has an NPRM out on requiring transponders in gliders, removing the exception, so this may all change in 2017 anyway depending on what they do with the language:

https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/06/16/2015-14818/transponder-requirement-for-gliders

All of this is moot if the FAA has another document that solidly designates the term "electrical system" as having an engine driven generator though.

--Ian Jordan
 
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airguy said:
Luddite. :D
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I'll take that as a complement.

Mel said:
You can have a battery AND a starter, if you don't have an engine driven generator. You have two choices, a wind driven generator or a constant-loss system.
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Or solar panels, which is what I plan on using.

My 1941 T-craft had a generator hung between the gear legs. It was added during the war to power the radio as it was a Sub spotter off of Long Island.

Ian, the proposed glider requirement won't apply to no-electrics airplanes, as of my last reading. Should a jet hit a Cub at high altitudes like one did a sail plane a few years back, that might change.
 
Ian,

Don't the two regs say the same thing, with just the language inverted?

The 1st quote says the reg *doesn't* apply to gliders, etc; the 2nd quote says the rule *applies* to everything *except* gliders, etc.
 
Might as well make all the drone pilots install ADSB so WE can see them on our PFDs
 
bret said:
Might as well make all the drone pilots install ADSB so WE can see them on our PFDs
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The drone industry is working on transponders and ADS-B out. The intent is to beat the FAA to the draw.

The Air Force comment to congress is just a move to get funding. The Air Force is equipping (I'm working some of the projects) but they just don't have the funds to do the entire fleet (so they say). Military airplanes are a bigger problem since they use IFF rather than commercial transponders typically. The equipment manufacturers are qualifying the IFF systems for ADS-B but with some really high cost associated since there are so few of them.

Transport airplanes are a more complex problem than small airplanes. Considerations extend to TCAS II and installing qualified position sources with antennas in pressurized aircraft.

I have ADS-B out and love the ADS-B in features. It is great having traffic with the flight ID associated with the traffic. Much easier to follow ATC call outs when you know which traffic on the display they are talking about.
 
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