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ADS-B for D-180 panel

KRAUSEGB

Well Known Member
I am one of the early builder with a D-180 and Garmin 496.
Looking for options to install ADS-B BOTH IN and OUT.

Gary
 
The Navworx -EXP box will make you 2020 compliant and will display traffic on the 496 via the serial cable. It will display traffic and weather on the iPad through several Apps (not including Foreflight).
 
I decided to use one system for ADS-B IN/OUT. Initially it was going to be Garmin G3X, but got no response from the Garmin G3X folks at Olathe, KS. I went there for a seminar and qualified for a $200 discount.

One call to Stein and I ordered the Dynon Skyview system. I had a D-180 already, so I didn't have to rewire everything. The engine sensors plug could be used as is. I already had dual Garmin WAAS navigators.

I have been flying the Skyview for about 3 months now. It is a very nice system for ADS-B IN/OUT. I have no regrets.

All it takes is $$$$$ and a little airspeed to make an airplane fly!
 
I?m just starting to get educated about the 2020 ADS-B OUT mandate. My RV-12 is an early SN and has Dynon D-180, Garmin 296, and Garmin GTX327. I also fly with a mini iPad w/ ForeFlight. I?m hoping there will be simple retrofit units such as the NavWorx ADS600-EXP within the next few years. I have looked at the installation manual for the ADS600-EXP and it appears the GPS and UAT antennas are not included and are a substantial added cost.

As stated above, I?m just starting to research my options. I?ll bookmark this thread and follow developments. I?m going to KOSH this year so I suspect there will be a lot of information being disseminated by various manufactures. Anyway, I?m all ears?
 
Piper, The ADS600-EXP comes with the GPS antenna (and a long cable) and a tiny wifi antenna as well. The only antenna you need to purchase is an ADS-B out antenna. Any transponder antenna works (as per the install manual) and I recently bought a 978 UAT antenna (ball type) from Spruce for under $20. I installed an ADS600-EXP in a friend's -12 and connected it to their GPSMAP 396 to show traffic with audio alerting. It works very well. You want firmware 3.5.1 installed. In my research, for legacy installations, these are the best bang for the buck.

Note: if you do not have a "modern" transponder that outputs REMOTE serial data, you will need a clip-on TransMonSPE that grabs the squawk code and altitude from the 1090 transponder output. But, buying that saves you the cost of a new transponder with about $1000 to spare.
 
Piper, The ADS600-EXP comes with the GPS antenna (and a long cable) and a tiny wifi antenna as well. The only antenna you need to purchase is an ADS-B out antenna.

Actually, the -EXP can be purchased with a GPS antenna, but it does not automatically come with one. You will need to purchase a GPS and a Transponder-type antenna.
 
Oops, you're right. $59 for the internal mount gps antenna. We mounted ours where the XM puck was under the cowl.
 
Actually, the -EXP can be purchased with a GPS antenna, but it does not automatically come with one. You will need to purchase a GPS and a Transponder-type antenna.

Jesse, are the NavWorx units being delivered in a timely manner and working correctly right out of the box? Do they have an Apple interface for setup or is it still windows based? How many have you installed so far, seems on another thread you had several ordered?:)
 
Navworx is getting much better at their shipping estimates. I think I have installed 4 or 5 myself and have helped on other installations. I have 2 on order and they are both spoken for as well. I had a bad unit on my first order that had to be replaced, and the earlier software was buggy, but after I convinced Bill that there was a bug, he fixed it. Now the installation is easy and configuration takes about 2 minutes, literally. The last one I installed along with a Sandia STX-165 transponder (plane had no transponder) and it took 3 minutes because I had forgotten to out the Sandia in ALT mode.

Setup is still Windows based, but they work right out of the box. They expect to have the iPad software out soon, but they expected to start shipping last April too.
 
I have a Freeflight XVR-978 installed with my D180 and use a WiFi interface to my iPad for ADS-B In. It works great, but I recently got a call from the FAA that there were some problems with my data stream out. The first was my fault: I transposed two characters in the ICAO hexadecimal code so the code and N-number didn't match. The second I haven't addressed yet. The Freeflight system requires an altitude resolution of 1 or 10 feet. When I get back from vacation I need to check my D180 encoder output resolution and reset it if it is on 100 feet as I suspect.

As far as product support I can't say enough good things about Freeflight with their help on installation and troubleshooting the data stream.

One note on the installation: it requires you to add a wire to the GTX327 plug for transponder suppression, and getting to that plug is a real pain!
 
My recommendation still at this point is just to wait a wee little bit. Lots and Lots and Lots of stuff changing still with equipment and availability - we're still nearly 4 years away (which I'll repeat is a lifetime in electronics lifecycles) and things are not getting more expensive! I'd bet that OSH this year will present a lot more options and varying price points.

Again, not like there are going to be less options or things will get more expensive....

Just my 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein
 
I agree we should wait for better selection of manufactures and reduced price because of supply/demand economics.

However, I did price out a NavWorx system for my RV-12 for a starting point as follows:
-
2we9v6q.jpg


Perhaps an unused position in my fuse block can power the ADS-B instead of adding a circuit breaker. Also, no shipping in above prices.
 
I checked my D180 and it is feeding a pressure altitude with 10 ft resolution to the GTX 327. I used the pin 20 PALT out from the GTX 327 to feed my FreeFlight UAT. Now things get blurry. The GTX manual says it is capable of reporting flight level in 100 ft increments. I called Garmin to see if that means the D180 output is not a pass through to pin 20 which would mean the pin 20 output has 100 ft resolution. The tech couldn't answer that question, but we discussed the FAA compliance report which showed my BALT (barometric altitude) out of spec 0.26% of the time. He told me anything less than 1% should not be an issue with the FAA.

I only report this to bring attention to the fact that if you have ADS-B Out the FAA is now proactively bringing out of spec conditions to the owner's attention with a phone call and email although no action is required until the 2020 mandatory date. The report I got highlighted any error in red, but it seems there is a nonzero limit on error. So if you get anything from the FAA on your ADS-B Out please post the results to help the rest of us.
 
I checked my D180 and it is feeding a pressure altitude with 10 ft resolution to the GTX 327. I used the pin 20 PALT out from the GTX 327 to feed my FreeFlight UAT. Now things get blurry. The GTX manual says it is capable of reporting flight level in 100 ft increments. I called Garmin to see if that means the D180 output is not a pass through to pin 20 which would mean the pin 20 output has 100 ft resolution. The tech couldn't answer that question, but we discussed the FAA compliance report which showed my BALT (barometric altitude) out of spec 0.26% of the time. He told me anything less than 1% should not be an issue with the FAA.

Are you not using the "remote" output of the 327 to control the freeflight?
(You should be using the altitude data tapped off directly from the D180 to the FF and the "remote" output from the 327 to the FF).
 
Gary,

I'll send pics sometime today when I find them.

Walt,

Did you pull the D180 pressure altitude signal and split it to the ADS and GTX? What did you do with the Remote from the GTX with regard to which ADS input was used?

Rich
 
Gary,

I'll send pics sometime today when I find them.

Walt,

Did you pull the D180 pressure altitude signal and split it to the ADS and GTX? What did you do with the Remote from the GTX with regard to which ADS input was used?

Rich

XVR: 232 RXD4 PIN 25, FROM ALT SOURCE (DYNON IN YOUR CASE) 232 ALTITUDE DATA TO XVR FROM ALT-ENCODER, 9600 IN

XVR: 232 RXD2 PIN 3, FROM GTX327 PIN 20 REMOTE CTL OF XVR GTX REMOTE 9600 IN
 
Did you guys notice the new Garmin 335/345 transponders on the VAF home page today? Too late for me, but it looks like a great ADS-B solution although a bit pricey!
 
I'm not terribly concerned about OUT yet, but I do want IN for traffic and weather. I was just recently able to pick up a Garmin 696. Once it's repaired, it would make a dandy replacement for the panel mounted 496. Problem is, I'd have to rip up 2/3 of the panel and rearrange stuff to make that work. So I've been thinking about various options, in terms of cost and functionality.

Option 1: Add a GDL 39 to the existing 496. I'd get traffic but no weather, and I can barely read most of the screen. The initial cost is a little steep but annual upkeep is minimal, assuming I don't keep all of the Garmin databases current. Cost - moderate to high; functionality - poor. No weather and a tiny screen.

Option 2: Rip out the 496, install the 696, add a GDL 39. Cost would be about even with Option 1. Functionality - pretty much everything I want. But, I'm pretty sure the radio and transponder would both have to move and I'll either have to move or lose the glove box. It's a major rework.

Option 3: IPad Mini, ForeFlight and Stratux. I already have a Stratux built. A decent used iPad Mini is a little less than a used GDL 39, but of course there's the annual FF subscription -- partially offset by never really needing to update the Garmin databases. The down side is you enter your flight plan data twice, since FF won't talk to anythign else I have (the 496, 696 or D180). Cost - a little higher than #1 or #2. Functionality - Pretty good. FF has some advantages, and also some downsides.

Option 4: Leave it for now. At some point Stratux may well be able to feed GDL 39 formatted data to the 696, which would be by far the lowest cost option.

Option 5: XM WX subscription. No, not really even an option. No traffic, and ridiculously high costs. And they don't even throw in the music. Are they kidding? No thanks.

I'm glad I don't have to make a decision today. I think for now I'm going with Option 4. New features are being added to Stratux regularly. I could, if I had the time, even work on the feed to the x96 myself since it's an open source project. I'm not in a big hurry to do any of it at this point, but I know it's coming.
 
Another interim option for weather and TFR's only…

Use mini iPad running ForeFlight with 4G. Would require SIM card and cell phone plan. Weather would update en route from cellular reception. My nephew does this in the Pacific NW and says it works great.
 
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Another option. I mounted my 696 on the top of the map case between the two seats. Stein made me a wiring harness with a switch that connects either the 496 or the 696 to the D180 and autopilot. Works slick. I may get a GDL39 to connect to the 696.
 
Hows this look! GDL39 mounted behind panel for traffic and weather on 796.;) All I need is ADS-B out when the time comes. Or i could opt for the new Garmin 345 transponder and connect it to the 796 for weather, traffic, AHARS and take out the GDL39 altogether. Im going to hang for a few more years and see how things develop.
C5E78693-0EF1-4129-8017-D232EEA7F99C_zpsg3s66xsk.jpg
 
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Did you guys notice the new Garmin 335/345 transponders on the VAF home page today? Too late for me, but it looks like a great ADS-B solution although a bit pricey!

This would be a nice clean upgrade to ADSB for us un's with the D-180 panel. As Rich indicates though it would be a little pricey, twice as much as the Navworks setup. There would be the additional advantage of having a modern Mode S transponder replacing the GTX 327 we now have.

Garmin indicates the new transponders are the same size as the GTX 328/330. Van's used to have brackets available for the longer GTX 328 tray that was available for European D-180 kits, so the mechanical installation might be a snap if those brackets can still be obtained. However, I don't see them on the "list" and Garmin has not publicized the GTX 335/345 installation manual yet, and the tray may be enough different that the Van's 328 brackets would not work.

Stratus also has a Mode S transponder with internal GPS and ADSB, so choices are growing.

Stein's post to wait a bit is good advice.

Just curious:
Does anyone have a guess for the number of D-180 panels there are out of the 400+ RV-12's completed?
 
Yes, and No.

Does anyone have a guess for the number of D-180 panels there are out of the 400+ RV-12's completed?

I know that there was ~ 310-315 D-180 avionics kits delivered.

How many of those are in flying RV-12's vs how many are part of kits still under construction? I have no idea.
 
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