G3i Experience

I was planning to go with 2 P-Mags, but I am getting cold feet from reading Brantel's post this morning about the advance curves implemented in those units and the fact (this is the biggie to me) that Emagair will not release their curve data. I hate companies that sell "black boxes" with "magic" inside and are opaque about what's going on inside. Plus, this made me second-guess the real value of playing with advance curves anyway.

So, I am taking a hard look at the G3i system and like what I read, but wonder what the users of the system think. I have read Vetterman's review and read all of the available posts so far about it, but was hoping to get more fresh info.

Thanks!

Hi Mark

I recently installed two PMags, which I setup to use the A curve and saw no temperature increase for the CHTs at all.

I have nearly 50 hours on them now and my observations are;

1. Easier starting than standard mags

2. I can lean aggressively to the point where the engine is starting to shut down and experience no engine roughness, with the standard mags I could not do this

3. I have lower fuel burn based on leaning in cruse and the resultant display output from the skyview fuel computer verifying this. Sure you lose speed but that's a trade off that's your choice.

4. Plugs stay very clean, have never experienced fouling with PMags.

5. Hot starts are easier

6. Cylinder temps are #1 315, #2 310, #3 298, #4 305 running LOP

I have no intention of trying the B curve and as such could not recommend the PMags highly enough.

Just my point of view

Cheers

I have the G3i ignition installed in my RV-10. I've got about fifty hours flying on it so far. I have no complaints as of yet. I haven't attempted to go LOP yet. Thomas is like most small vendors in the experimental market, in that he provides outstanding support, even on the weekends. I highly recommend just giving him a call and discussing your concerns.

I purchased a system after getting a brochure included with my Vetterman Exhaust system. I haven't flown with my system yet but after seeing a demo of the system at Oshkosh a few years ago it reinforced my decision that if you are going to use mags anyway this is the way to go. I second what Bob says of Thomas's customer service.

The thing I find attractive about the system (and I need to verify this) is the idea that if the G3i goes TU, it reverts back to the standard mag function. Thus, it appears that what you get for your money is easier starting, smoother operation, somewhat improved fuel economy, and (with balanced injectors) the ability to run more aggressive LOP.

Again, all of this needs to be investigated some more.

Mark Dickens said:

The thing I find attractive about the system (and I need to verify this) is the idea that if the G3i goes TU, it reverts back to the standard mag function.

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I can validate this for you. Normal installation of the G3i has the unit controlled by a switch, so turning it off would similuate it going bad. The mags will run just fine.

My first flight I had a fuel pump issue. The first thing I did was to turn off the G3i, not understanding what was causing the rough running engine. I discovered a few milliseconds later that it was fuel related and not ignition.

Mark Dickens said:

Thus, it appears that what you get for your money is easier starting, smoother operation, somewhat improved fuel economy, and (with balanced injectors) the ability to run more aggressive LOP. Again, all of this needs to be investigated some more.

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Again, as part of the standard install, the G3i is wired to automatically turn on when the starter is engaged to function like a shower of sparks, then turns off unless the normal power switch is engaged.

I haven't yet done any testing to compare fuel flow with and without the igntion engaged or attempted to run LOP. I'll probably do those activities in the spring. Plus my injectors don't appear to be very balanced at the moment either. Lots of items on my to do list.

bob

Mark,

When I ran my G3i the first time, it was in the test cell at Mattituck.

I was very impressed and now, 19 months later, I can't wait to flip the switch on again!

It works incredibly well. A huge difference could be seen when the ignition was turned on. The engine smoothed out and sounded better!

I am looking forward to seeing how it works in the air! That should be this coming summer.

It should go like the Dickens! Ha! I made a funny!

. CJ

Well, since I'm kinda slow, I hope it goes faster than the Dickens!

The main thing I need to investigate is what happens if the g3i is completely cutoff from the mag...ie-somehow the wire is disconnected from the mag. Will it continue to run?

Ha! Touche'

Ummmm... It is like defusing a bomb. Just don't cut the BLUE WIRE!



Seriously, if you lost one wire, you would still have the other mag.

Just like your other systems, there are two of everything.

Does that help?

CJ

Mark Dickens said:

Well, since I'm kinda slow, I hope it goes faster than the Dickens!

The main thing I need to investigate is what happens if the g3i is completely cutoff from the mag...ie-somehow the wire is disconnected from the mag. Will it continue to run?

Click to expand...

Give Thomas a call. He will be glad to review all the failure modes. He's one of the good guys that will spend the time to help educate. He helped me solve an engine issue that had nothing to do with his product.

Try (303) 806-5120 and if you get voice mail, try (303) 781-9449. I forget which one, but only one of those lines has a ringer that can be heard in his test cell.

bob

rleffler said:

Give Thomas a call. He will be glad to review all the failure modes. He's one of the good guys that will spend the time to help educate. He helped me solve an engine issue that had nothing to do with his product.

Try (303) 806-5120 and if you get voice mail, try (303) 781-9449. I forget which one, but only one of those lines has a ringer that can be heard in his test cell.

bob

Click to expand...

I'll do that, but it sounds like the g3i is a single point of failure for both mags. I'll definitely discuss this with Thomas.

Mark Dickens said:

Well, since I'm kinda slow, I hope it goes faster than the Dickens!

The main thing I need to investigate is what happens if the g3i is completely cutoff from the mag...ie-somehow the wire is disconnected from the mag. Will it continue to run?

Click to expand...

Happy New Year to all!

The redundancy that I designed into this system is to be functional and reliable. Like any component improperly or poorly installed, it will increase the chance of failure in one way or another of that component. As your question ?what happens if the g3i is completely cutoff from the mag...? If you were to cut ALL the wires from the control unit to BOTH mags, the ignition would not function in EI mode or magneto mode. I would consider that a multi-point failure. A single point failure to completely take out both, left and right ignitions in EI mode and magneto mode is NOT possible. There would have to be a multiple of other issues to take out the ignition system completely.

Installing now

The PMags are probably the simplest system to install and maintain. All of the early issues are corrected and the PMags are working great.

After review of the G3i system and talking with others that have it in use, I elected to install it on my new IO390 equipped 7. I'm in that process now and everything is quite easy. Thomas is great to work with!!

I love the idea of electronic ignition with the G3i methodology. Benefits of EI but the back up of standard mag operation. The G3i will enable quick starts and LOP operation superior to that of standard mags.

I think this is very viable system and one that has had excellent success.

Clarification please

I am looking to replace/upgrade one mag.

If I understand what it says on the G3i website running the system through the mag will give the advantage of a shower of sparks but retain the standard timing of the magneto.

However, if it is run through a P mag then the timing will advance and retard in line with whatever the P mag curve is....... is this correct?

Mark Dickens said:

I'll do that, but it sounds like the g3i is a single point of failure for both mags. I'll definitely discuss this with Thomas.

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No it isn't. The the G3i fails, the mags continue to work.

As Thomas mentioned, the only catastrophic error would be if both sets of cables going to a Mag would be cut. Then it would only take out one Mag. If all four cables get cut to both mags, you probably have more severe issues that your mags.

PM

Mark

Sent you a PM.

G3i experience.

Just thought I would add a few comments about the G3 system from my experience.

My RV10 has about 170 hours on it. Initially I had some trouble with my G3 system.

It does perform as advertised as for smoother running and easier starting. I cannot comment on fuel burn rate savings or cleaner spark plugs.

My initial problem with my unit related to installing too small of a circuit breaker to power the unit. My manual called out for a 7.5 amp breaker.

With this size circuit breaker, it prevented the capacitor inside the unit from recharging completely before being asked to deliver the energy to the spark plugs. This resulted in sometimes the engine not starting with the unit turned on. This situation was not a consistent problem which some might think should have resulted, so it caused a tremendous amount of problem solving including purchasing a replacement unit which was in the end not necessary. I have two units, one on the shelf. Ultimately, I installed a 20 or 25 amp circuit breaker and the problem was completely eradicated.

Things that need to be addressed are the importance of making your MAG connections with crimps and heat shrink. Keep these connections supported so there is minimal chance for breakage. If one of these connections fail, you do have the other MAG to keep the engine running, and hopefully you will notice an RPM drop and perhaps a rough running engine. Flip the ignition switch to the MAG with the broken connection and the engine will STOP! YES STOP!

Also, the G3 unit does not automatically switch back to MAG mode when there is a failure. This is a misconception. You have to realize there is a problem and turn the G3i system off with the toggle switch. VERY IMPORTANT to understand this. Especially during takeoff.[/B If you have a rough running engine in flight, the system should be switched off immediately from my experience.

Last point I will make. I have an on going issue between G3i and Advanced Flight Systems 3400 and the RPM reading. Each vendor thinking it is the other vendors system. Initially I had an issue with my EFIS RPM sensor reading, it would jump to above 2700 and then go to zero and stay at zero. Rob Hickman thought it was the electrical noise from the modified MAGS or the wiring going to the MAGS from the mods. Thomas is not sure what it is. Ultimately, I have replaced the RPM sensors, placed a diode filter inline on the RPM sensor wires and then pulled the EFIS and returned to AFS for a check/service. For over a year it has been trouble free only for the problem to resurface again. Again, I have had to make sure all the wires mods are away from the RPM wires, etc. The problem presented on a short flight before a long CC flight to Sedona. On the way back(not on the way out) I had no RPM for most of the return flight except for my $16.00 Hanger 7, RC propeller RPM meter. Still have not solved the problem and may have to send the EFIS back again for check.

Thomas has been EXTREMELY helpful and supportive!

John,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I agree, both Thomas and Rob have been great to work with.

I've not experienced the interference as you have. But I did run all the wiring going to the mags through their own firewall penetration. I then ran all the engine sensor wiring through a different firewall penetration on the other side of the panel. It just seemed like the right thing to do to keep the RF laddered lines away from all those unsheilded serial lines.

Bob