panels simple or not

post lights, why would you want them. i am reeeealy laoboring over the panel stuff so much ive wasted weeks on it. i really dont know what i want here. its driving me crazy. my gut says im vfr for now so i'll just put the dynon flight and engine stuff in. but then what about back up. well im vfr what back up do i need.if i need all the analog stuff why not just leave out the electronics. and go steam panel. but then that seems to cost as much as electronic.i havent bought a single instrument or radio yet and i need to get a move on. what is the average price of a new steam panel? filling all the holes of the prepunch with vans harness. ideas please.
i love the glass stuff but i am not willing to build the space shuttle

Don't beat up on yourself too bad. You're gonna waste a ton more time, even once you figure out your panel on things like schematics, etc.

I labored on exactly the same issues. I started down the "I want a cheap, but functional panel" but ended up playing the math games and came to the exact same conclusion as you.

So here is the best suggestion I can offer.

Set down and figure out your "mission profile". Do it as near term and long term - If you think it might change (e.g. start out day vfr, but with flexibility to grow to night vfr, or IFR).

Next figure out your "starting" budget, allocate what you think you can afford for the phase 1 approach to a panel.

Now you can figure out if you budget best fits four different panel concepts. a) 6 pack - steam gauges; b) what I call "Medium glass" - the small form factor Dynon, BMA, etc - these have the advantage of letting you start with steam and "grow up" to glass; c) "Large glass" - these are the BMA's, the GRT's, the ACS's, etc; or d) "certified glass" - these are like the Chelton, the OP Technologies, the Garmin G600/G900X, etc. They are most costly, but highly more functional.

three pitfalls that I'll offer.
a) don't let yourself be talked into this concept of "light IFR". There is *no* such thing. It's sorta like being "half pregnant"
b) The value you put in a panel is directly proportional to the value of the cargo you carry also read as you can't do IFR CHEAP (inexpensive yes, but not cheap).
c) there is alot going on right now with the FAA and it's look at the experimental marketplace. A trend is starting to emerg. TSO's, while you are not required to purchase a TSO'd device, you will be required to prove that a device meets a TSO where appropriate. Two recent items, IFR GPS's both non-waas, and Waas, and transponder encoders. The EFIS integrated encoders are starting to be looked at and not approved so factor into your plans accordingly.

Hope this helps,

I've labored over the panel (for months) as well, so I know what you're talking about. Luckily, it hasn't held up progress. I've been thinking while finishing up the engine, FWF, cowl, etc.

A Dynon EFIS is a huge bang for the buck. If you're concerned about back-ups, look at the prices of the various instruments. You'll find that anything with a gyro in it (DG, AI, TC) is very expensive. Airspeed and altitude instruments from Vans are pretty cheap and provide a lot of information that's useful for getting back on the ground safely.

I've also seen a lot of VFR RVs that have airspeed, altitude, VSI, maybe a TC, and a few engine instruments. They're obviously just as fun to fly around. I think this forum is heavily weighted toward the builder that is high-tech and likes electronic toys in the panel (present company included).

Hope that helps,
Dave

Depends on the mission. IMHO If you are day VFR all you really need to be able to do is safely get the plane back on the ground if an instrument fails:
If you have an EFIS and it fails you should be able to get it safely on the ground without any instruments (day VFR, once you get to know your plane) however an ASI would make the landing safer and easier.
If you plan to install something like the ?Lift Reserve Indicator? or a stand alone angle of attack indicator then you could leave out the back-up ASI.
A back up altimeter would be nice, but again you can safely land without one (day VFR). If you have a hand held type GPS it can run on internal batteries and give you height information.
If you are day VRF you don?t really need a gyro instrument. Of course if you think you could end up in cloud then put one in (EFIS). Are you installing an autopilot? If so, then you could leave out the gyro instrument and let the autopilot fly the plane if you accidentally got into cloud. Your GPS will give direction better than a DG.
I think the engine monitor is the way to go. It gives so much information with alarms to warn of problems. If the monitor fails you can still land safely so you don?t necessarily need back-up engine instruments. In my case I have an engine monitor with back-up oil temp (electric) and oil pressure (mechanical) gauges. I will be flying to remote parts of Australia, a long way from repair facilities in the USA if the engine monitor fails. I figure I should be able to fly the plane home with the oil temp and pressure gauge. I also like the extra oil pressure gauge as it give redundancy if the primary oil pressure indicator in the engine monitor fails. I would hate to have to do a forced landing because of a faulty oil pressure indicator/transducer!
So in summary, for day VFR I would suggest an EFIS and an engine monitor with maybe a back-up altimeter OR an ASI, Altimeter, VSI (no EFIS) and engine monitor as a minimum.
Hope this helps.

Fin
9A under construction

We finally decided on this

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1235/img0413cc9.jpg
After a lot of soul serching, we settled on this "standard" steam gauge look even though it is all electric (no vacuum system) and a Garmin stack consisting of Garmin 340 audio panel, Garmin 430 GPS/NAV/COMM and Garmin GTX327 transponder. Tru-Trak Digitrack II VS auto pilot, Tru-Trak ADI and T&B and a host of Van's gauges complete the system. This could work for the qualified IFR individual, VFR night or just VFR day pilot. We cut our own panel from a blank. We just started with a blank piece of paper and came up with this after "oh so many options" and a ream of paper. It really came down to what our mission is and what it might be and went with what we could.

Pat Garboden/Todd Wiechman
Ozark, MO
RV9-a 942WG (reserved)

thanks for

the input. i can probaly make a better decision now. its just the back n forth. i am tired of, but it helps to see actual panels. i'll do some searching and panel building to see what i can come up with. thanks guys.

I'm planning a day/night VFR panel. This will include the Dynon D-180 and redundant steam gauges for ASI, ALT, and a wet compass. The Dynon IMHO is just too cool and priced too right.

I agree with the sentiment that you need to look at YOUR mission, near and far, to determine what will be best for you. Keep in mind that your panel does not have to be what your final mission will be for Phase I flight testing. This means you can spread the budget out.

Here are some pics of my in-process panel -- simple, to the point, economical and functionality to keep my interest peeked for a long time. I would have posted them to the "Show us your panel" thread but I'm waiting until I'm finished.




Now I sort of wish I wouldn't have made the cutouts for the trim indicators since the Dynon EMS now supports it. Oh well...I may just find something to put over the holes. An aerobatics limitations placard, perhaps? A Garmin 496 will go over the radio stack.

I'm a young guy (29) and not farsighted yet...so the smaller Dynons are just the ticket for me (the larger ones don't show any additional information...so why waste the coveted panel real estate?).

My original plan was to put a Narco NAV 122D(G) in one of the lower holes and the trio in the other. Now that Dynon supports GS/LOC from the SL-30, I may have to swap out my SL-40 for the SL-30.

oh yeah

now were getting more to what i really want. this is really building in my brain now. i think i see a light at the end of the tunnel. i hate the sl 30 is 3500.00$ nice panel jamie. so if i understand you correctly with the small dynons you didnt cut out the rib behiond them?

Exactly...the ribs and subpanel are unmodified.