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sport pilot question

13brv3

13brv3

Well Known Member
Greetings,

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what you can and can't do under SP rules. Let's say I own an RV-12 (or any other plane that satisfies the SP regulation). I have a PP license, and valid medical, so I can operate the plane virtually without restrictions.

Now, say I decide not to renew my medical, but have the same plane. What, if anything, CAN'T I do that I could do before?

Thanks,
Rusty
 
If you do not renew your medical, you are then operating as a sport pilot and are limited to aircraft that meet the sport pilot definition. You cannot fly at night, or over 10,000 feet, or over 138 mph, or in class B, C, or D airspace. I suppose that if you certificate your RV 12 as an Experimental then you may operate it as an Experimental while you have your SEL endorsement, but without the medical it must be operated only as a sport pilot craft. Do I understand it correctly?
 
As I understand the ruling you can operate in B, C or D airspace if you have instructor training in that airspace and have it endorsed in your log. Since you already are presumably operating in that airspace as a PP I guess the endorsement isnt required., but I'd check on that just the same.
 
Thanks for the comments. I just took a look at sportpilot.org, and found a really nice Q&A section, that will probably answer most of my questions when I finish reading through it.

http://www.sportpilot.org/questions/afmfaqs.asp?topicid=8

I didn't see the 10,000 ft limit right off, but I do recall reading it somewhere. A PP can operate in class B and under without any further training or endorsements. Of course all the other sport pilot aircraft limits apply.

Cheers,
Rusty
 
Oh no, don't tell me....

Rusty,
Why are you even asking....don't tell me you're thinking of finishing the -8, selling and getting a -12....am I right?? Should have kept the -3.... :)

PS - Almost got stuck in Milton last night....went to take off and had a bad plug...300rpm drop on mag check...Bill came to the rescue with a new plug...left Milton about 7:20pm back to PQL.
 
As an already certificated private pilot, you are allowed to fly in Class B, C, and D airspace without the endorsement...the FAA recognizes you have a "higher" license than the basic sport pilot license, thus no logbook endorsment is needed. You can read all about the aircraft restrictions here:

www.sportpilot.org

Just like everyone else has said, no flying at night (even if you have the reqired lights), no flying above 10,000', no flying for hire, etc...
 
tobinbasford said:
Rusty,
Why are you even asking....don't tell me you're thinking of finishing the -8, selling and getting a -12....am I right??
Click to expand...

Hey Tobin,

I don't have any plans of selling the RV-8 for at least a couple years, but if I end only up flying locally, like I did the last one, then I might eventually go to an RV-12. I do like the SP concept, since it seems to be made for the type of flying I tend to do.

Rusty
 
13brv3 said:
I have a PP license, and valid medical, so I can operate the plane virtually without restrictions.
Click to expand...
This is the best approach to take, IMHO.

PPL first, then fly under Sport Pilot regulations later is probably the "right way" to do it, for the simple fact that you will have much more experience/training by the time you decide to fly Sport Pilot.

The only "gotcha" that I can see is possibly having to face scrutiny at some point in the future if the FAA comes looking for all of the pilots who have let their medicals elapse.

There's a lot of pilots who are in great physical shape who simply don't want to involve the FAA in their health care decisions in any manner what-so-ever.

Also, I'd bet that pretty much everyone on this board knows somebody who was forced to sell partially complete RV kit because they lost their medical. That's a shame, because those guys could still be flying if they'd been aware of the Sport Pilot regs. Not flying an RV, but still flying something else.

- Patrick
 
13brv3 said:
I do like the SP concept, since it seems to be made for the type of flying I tend to do.
Click to expand...
That's a great mission statement.

As a simple private pilot, all of my flying is for "fun". Not a whole lot of night, not a whole lot of XC. Not many passengers, and not a whole lot of IMC... ;)

The RV-12 concept is a great idea for guys like us, plus it addresses the *huge* untapped market that is coming in the form of all the pilots who will put up their "bigger" RV's when they get older - but who would still like to fly for a few more years...

- Patrick
 
Here's a question: Can you use your LSA plane to train for your private pilot's license if properly equipped? Take your checkride in it? That would be a selling point for LSA's since time accrued in training for the sport-pilot license can be applied to the requirements of the PPL if I remember correctly. Wondering if anyone knows. Thanks.
 
Strmn8r said:
Can you use your LSA plane to train for your private pilot's license if properly equipped?
Click to expand...
Yes.
Strmn8r said:
Take your checkride in it?
Click to expand...
Yes.
Strmn8r said:
That would be a selling point for LSA's since time accrued in training for the sport-pilot license can be applied to the requirements of the PPL if I remember correctly.
Click to expand...
Don't really see it as a selling point, people have been learning to fly in "LSAs" for decades. Back then they were just called Cubs-n-Luscombes-n-Ercoupes... You can train for a Sport Pilot license, Private Pilots License or any other rating or endorsement so long as the aircraft is properly equipped.
 
Yes

Hi Strmn8r,
Yes, you can receive dual in your LSA and take a check ride in it....."IF THE EXAMINER AGREES TO IT" as the regs read. You can also take a check ride in your RV..."if the examiner agrees to it....." Check out FAR 61.87. I have just gone through a similar deal with the FAA and the National Assoc of flight instructors.(NAFI). I also spoke with an examiner and he told me that you could take your LSA checkride in a single place airplane while the examiner watches you fly from the ground. He'd have a hand held radio and ask you to perform certain maneuvers while he watches.

I have a buddy who owns a Zenith CH100 single seater. He wants me to give him dual in my RV6A (and not charge for it, as per FAA regs) and then sign him off for solo in his Zenith. The Atlanta FSDO says I can't do that. The regs imply that I can and the NAFI agrees. Read FAR 61.195 (g) 2. It reads in part........"For single place aircraft, the pre-solo flight training must have been provided in an aircraft that has two pilot stations and is of the same category (airplane) class (single engine) and type, if applicable" (it isn't).
Regards,
 
Strmn8r said:
Here's a question: Can you use your LSA plane to train for your private pilot's license if properly equipped? Take your checkride in it? That would be a selling point for LSA's since time accrued in training for the sport-pilot license can be applied to the requirements of the PPL if I remember correctly. Wondering if anyone knows. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I have a grass strip near my home with a LSA instructor there that has a Luscombe he uses. This is very convenient for me and there isn't an opportunity near my home that offers a PPL. I've talked to the instructor over the phone and he said that all the hours [25] that are necessary to get my LSA would apply to my PPL.

My researching leads me to believe I need to do a x-c [3 hours] and night flying [3 hours] and, of course a total of another 15 hours, post LSA to reach my PPL.

Given my circumstances I'd like to refine the question above.

1] I want to confirm that what this guy told me is true. I get my LSA and then pick up the remainder of my PPL on the other side of StL and not have wasted any hours in the process? This guy seems forthright but it is in his interest to say that the LSA qualifies hour for hour towards a PPL.

2] If I take training in his Luscombe 8 can I obtain my TD endorcement for my PPL as part of acquiring my LSA?

Thanks,

John
 
Yes and Yes..........

John,
All the time you acquire in the Luscombe will apply toward your PPL, whether or not you even try for the Sport pilot certificate, just as the 40 hours or so for a PPL applies toward the Commercial license.

The TD endorsement is a freebie and does qualify if the instructor deems you able to solo the Luscombe. However, your additional training toward a PPL has to be given by a CFI, not an LSA instructor, since they can only teach up to LSA license.

For the PPL at a later date, read the FARs and whatever is missing, such as hood time and cross country, certain maneuvers like accelerated, takeoff and departure stalls and short/soft field landings need to be learned. As long as you have had the required training for all the PPL maneuvers and passed the written test, you qualify for the PPL test upon your CFIs endorsement.

In my case, since I'm a CFI, all I have to do to become an LSA instructor, is fly a Light Sport aircraft five hours. Does your future LSA instructor have his CFI? If so, he can take you all the way to the PPL and you can take the checkride in the Luscombe as well.
Regards,
 
pierre smith said:
John,
All the time you acquire in the Luscombe will apply toward your PPL, whether or not you even try for the Sport pilot certificate, just as the 40 hours or so for a PPL applies toward the Commercial license.

The TD endorsement is a freebie and does qualify if the instructor deems you able to solo the Luscombe. However, your additional training toward a PPL has to be given by a CFI, not an LSA instructor, since they can only teach up to LSA license.

For the PPL at a later date, read the FARs and whatever is missing, such as hood time and cross country, certain maneuvers like accelerated, takeoff and departure stalls and short/soft field landings need to be learned. As long as you have had the required training for all the PPL maneuvers and passed the written test, you qualify for the PPL test upon your CFIs endorsement.

In my case, since I'm a CFI, all I have to do to become an LSA instructor, is fly a Light Sport aircraft five hours. Does your future LSA instructor have his CFI? If so, he can take you all the way to the PPL and you can take the checkride in the Luscombe as well.
Regards,
Click to expand...

Thanks Pierre -

I'm not certain if he is a CFI [I'll have to ask] but when I explained my thoughts he didn't offer to take me all the way to PPL so I'm guessing he isn't.

This does confirm my reading and understanding. Starting with the LSA is a positive. Actually, the cost per hour for LSA is less than for a PPL so it will not only save me about 2 hours drive time each time I go but the first 25 hours will be cheaper too [another bonus].

thanks for the confirmation.

John
 
I was advised by a good friend pilot and CFI to let my 3rd class lapse and fall into the SPL umbrella. One of my pilot buddies is already doing that and so far has not seen any limitations with his flying.

I just renewed my 3rd class in August and Lord willing, plan not to renew in 2008 because a denial would mean I am done for good. Why get the 3rd class if all the flying I do is in a LSA type of plane with an AB-EXP N number. I have over 800 TT of flying for fun, alone, with few x-country trips, and don't fly at night because of Murphy's law.

The SPL will allow me to continue to do that so it is a great deal. Many thanks to those that made it a reality.

J Borja
Elk Mound WI
 
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